If you don't care enough to read this...

[DC2]

There are often questions about what are these "deeming regulations" people are talking about...
There are often questions about what impact they would have on the vaping world...

This answers those questions entirely, although not necessarily all that succinctly...
CASAA: CASAA Report to OMB/OIRA dated December 15, 2015

Yeah, it's long, and it takes quite awhile to read.
But that's because there is no simple answer, no short summary.

But if you want to know, all of your answers are there.
If you read it, you will become an expert on where things currently stand.

If you can't be bothered to read it, you may not really care enough yet.
Not much anyone can do about that, but it is what it is.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh.
But it's a harsh reality that we will be forced to face one way or another.

Even if you only read a little of it, you will become a much more informed vaper.

Oh, and Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays!
Depending on your preference, of course.

 

[Jman8]

Love all the ink that is given to the underground market likelihood.

One of my current favorite paragraphs in the piece is:

In terms of real impact on people’s lives, there is a good case to be made that this is the second most important domestic policy action of the decade. It will cause a major change in the lives of more people than any domestic policy in recent memory other than the Affordable Care Act. It is of enormously greater importance to them than any product regulation, environmental regulation, infrastructure policy, or even change in their tax rate. It will attempt to take away something from a few million people that most of them consider one of the most important things in the world, often the most important after basic sustenance, family, and friends. Yet it is being put forward without serious analysis as if it were a mere technical adjustment of jurisdiction, and with the paltry consideration and analysis that might be acceptable if that were the case.

I did a thread recently asking ECF members to rank where this issue fits for them going into 2016 elections. I wouldn't reasonably expect it to be #1 for anyone (and yet I think for someone in the thread, it was). For me, it was #3 I think. Heck, due to the poor science and great bias on this one, some of the other issues are now items I'd not treat as all that significant because essentially we could rather easily be being lied to about that. Though that's not really news (known for last hundred years or so), but the ecig debacle makes it very much open to wide open conspiracy that is plausibly going on. Thank God the philosophy / rationality of scientific types is rather easy to defeat when their science is so obviously based on ignorance.

 

[DC2]

Love all the ink that is given to the underground market likelihood.

The parts about black market and shadow markets were so strong, and so thorough...
I thought you might have even had a hand in some of the points they made...

 

[motordude]

A VERY well thought and documented response!
Now I have to go rest these old eyes.

 

[Marc411]

I believe that by design much of the content in the CASSA document stemmed from a rather extensive survey they sent to the CASSA membership prior to their meeting with the OMB/OIRA.

Several of the questions asked how and individual may react to the deeming regs and one choice was black market and shadow markets. Several times that was my answer.

Reading the CASSA document it appears that may of the responses (or questions) from the membership survey were incorporated into their response. It's just a guess on my part but the amount of ink may be a direct correlation to much of the membership responding that black market and shadow markets would be their alternative.

 

[Douggro]

Thanks for putting up the link. I just finished reading it, and like @motordude I need to rest the eyes now. But it is a concise, albeit lengthy, summary of everything I saw wrong with the proposed deeming regs.

I'm left wondering if this isn't a play by the FDA to maintain the status quo ante of the days before e-cigs and vaping so they don't have to do the work of performing meaningful work as it applies to the industry. "We don't want to have to deal with this, so let's just make it don't have to and look like we're doing the 'right thing' in the process." Remove the Machiavellian schemes of BT/BP that get floated around and you have a lazy bureaucracy trying not to have to do anything, which is eminently more probable.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm…"

 

[Douggro]

I believe that by design much of the content in the CASSA document stemmed from a rather extensive survey they sent to the CASSA membership prior to their meeting with the OMB/OIRA.

Several of the questions asked how and individual may react to the deeming regs and one choice was black market and shadow markets. Several times that was my answer.

Reading the CASSA document it appears that may of the responses (or questions) from the membership survey were incorporated into their response. It's just a guess on my part but the amount of ink may be a direct correlation to much of the membership responding that black market and shadow markets would be their alternative.

They're driving home what I've already seen here in the short time I've been around: dedicated vapers are going to het their stuff somewhere, are stockpiling supplies that might otherwise become difficult to acquire, and forming resource chains for places to obtain the components that will still be available because they don't fall under the scope of the deeming regs.

 

[Marc411]

They're driving home what I've already seen here in the short time I've been around: dedicated vapers are going to het their stuff somewhere, are stockpiling supplies that might otherwise become difficult to acquire, and forming resource chains for places to obtain the components that will still be available because they don't fall under the scope of the deeming regs.

I'm really not sure how many members responded or were asked to respond but I believe there is a vast difference with data collected through an advocacy group, consolidated and in a concise story. Much more powerful then random statements posted on the web.

Random data spread over the web is an Incalculable source. CASSA can have a measured response that is free of hearsay, much different then what the FDA and ANTZ are currently using.

A consolidated single voice can deliver a powerful message. I like what they did with the data.

 

[Alien Traveler]

My attention span is not something to be proud of.
And have you heard about Christmas? Yes, the one that was yesterday? It had cut my (already laughable) span of attention at least in half.
Would somebody be so kind to explain in not too many words what is it about?
(I tried to read, really tried...)

 

[Rizzyking]

I've been officially told that the UK will fully implement the whole tobacco products directive in may 2016 so for us in the UK the fight is well and truly over hope our cousins across the Atlantic have better fortune with your fight.

 

[roxynoodle]

I've been officially told that the UK will fully implement the whole tobacco products directive in may 2016 so for us in the UK the fight is well and truly over hope our cousins across the Atlantic have better fortune with your fight.

I'm so sorry.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Would somebody be so kind to explain in not too many words what is it about?

Note that this is only my opinion, and I didn't intensely read the article.

A (who stands to not make as much money) gives money (in one way or another) to B. Neither A or B like the idea of 'not as much money anymore', so B is trying to make it easier for A to continue making a lot of money.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

double post, this one should be deleted.

 

[BackDoc]

Socialism is fascism with a sorry for our people in great Britain, we may, and probably will see the same here

 

[Marc411]

Doc, I hate to be the voice of doom but I believe its a fait accompli.

The MSA money is just to great to loose and they want the money more then they care about our health.

I always come back to one thing, the FDA approved Chantix, I've seen more commercials in the last two weeks than the last two months. I'll say this again, it's FDA approved.

What are the side effects from vaping?

Here's the list for Chantix, makes you wonder why the FDA has a problem with vaping.


Chantix side effects
Abnormal Dreams
Chronic Trouble Sleeping
Feel Like Throwing Up
Gas
Head Pain
Incomplete or Infrequent Bowel Movements
Throwing Up
Angina
Trouble Breathing
Acute Infection of the Nose, Throat or Sinus
Condition in which Stomach Acid is Pushed Into the Esophagus
Drowsiness
Dry Mouth
Excessive Sweating
Feeling Weak
Increased Hunger
Indigestion
Itching
Loss of Appetite
Low Energy
Nightmares
Not Feeling Well
Rash
Runny Nose
Sluggishness
Stomach Cramps
Abnormal Heart Rhythm
Abnormal Liver Function Tests
Anemia
Anxious
Behaving with Excessive Cheerfulness and Activity
Chest Pain
Delusions
Depression
Diabetes
Erythema Multiforme
Giant Hives
Hallucination
Having Thoughts of Suicide
Heart Attack
High Blood Pressure
Injury
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality
Panic Disorder
Paranoia
Problems Metabolizing Alcohol
Seizures
Stevens-Johnson Syndrome
Stroke
Suicidal
Thoughts of Hurting or Killing Others
Transient Ischemic Attack
Unconscious
Aggressive Behavior
Backache
Cannot Focus Thoughts
Cramps
........
Disturbance of Attention
Dizzy
Excess Urination
Feeling Anger Toward Something
Feeling Restless
Flu-Like Symptoms
Heart Throbbing or Pounding
Hives
Joint Pain
Mood Changes
Muscle Pain
Nosebleed
Peripheral Vascular Disease
Problem Behavior
Problem with Periods
Problems with Eyesight
Reaction due to an Allergy
Ringing in the Ears
Sensation of Spinning or Whirling
Sleep Disorder
Swollen Lymph Nodes
Taste Problems
Temporary Redness of Face and Neck
Visible Water Retention
Weight Gain

 

[somdcomputerguy]

..makes you wonder why the FDA has a problem with vaping.

I wonder not. Note the following is only my opinion. Their wallets are fatter in Chantix World than they are in Vapin' World.

 

[KentA]

A lot of work went into that Cassa article.
I appreciate the time, effort, & resulting document.

 

[herb]

Doc, I hate to be the voice of doom but I believe its a fait accompli.

The MSA money is just to great to loose and they want the money more then they care about our health.

I always come back to one thing, the FDA approved Chantix, I've seen more commercials in the last two weeks than the last two months. I'll say this again, it's FDA approved.

What are the side effects from vaping?

Here's the list for Chantix, makes you wonder why the FDA has a problem with vaping.


Chantix side effects
Abnormal Dreams
Chronic Trouble Sleeping
Feel Like Throwing Up
Gas
Head Pain
Incomplete or Infrequent Bowel Movements
Throwing Up
Angina
Trouble Breathing
Acute Infection of the Nose, Throat or Sinus
Condition in which Stomach Acid is Pushed Into the Esophagus
Drowsiness
Dry Mouth
Excessive Sweating
Feeling Weak
Increased Hunger
Indigestion
Itching
Loss of Appetite
Low Energy
Nightmares
Not Feeling Well
Rash
Runny Nose
Sluggishness
Stomach Cramps
Abnormal Heart Rhythm
Abnormal Liver Function Tests
Anemia
Anxious
Behaving with Excessive Cheerfulness and Activity
Chest Pain
Delusions
Depression
Diabetes
Erythema Multiforme
Giant Hives
Hallucination
Having Thoughts of Suicide
Heart Attack
High Blood Pressure
Injury
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality
Panic Disorder
Paranoia
Problems Metabolizing Alcohol
Seizures
Stevens-Johnson Syndrome
Stroke
Suicidal
Thoughts of Hurting or Killing Others
Transient Ischemic Attack
Unconscious
Aggressive Behavior
Backache
Cannot Focus Thoughts
Cramps
........
Disturbance of Attention
Dizzy
Excess Urination
Feeling Anger Toward Something
Feeling Restless
Flu-Like Symptoms
Heart Throbbing or Pounding
Hives
Joint Pain
Mood Changes
Muscle Pain
Nosebleed
Peripheral Vascular Disease
Problem Behavior
Problem with Periods
Problems with Eyesight
Reaction due to an Allergy
Ringing in the Ears
Sensation of Spinning or Whirling
Sleep Disorder
Swollen Lymph Nodes
Taste Problems
Temporary Redness of Face and Neck
Visible Water Retention
Weight Gain

Whew, for a second there i thought you were going to post a list of excessive or unreasonable side effects , thanks for this

 

[Rizzyking]

Many current UK vapers will be stockpiling and hoping common sense kicks in before the stockpiles run out, what I'm most angry about is not those currently vaping they have had time to prepare to whatever degree it's for the millions who will have their best chance to kick tobacco removed so rubbish like chantix can keep being pushed keeping those profits nice and high. The level of corruption involved in the tobacco products directive should have every EU citizen up in arms but sadly the majority just are not interested enough. As of next year under draft legislative proposals I will be breaking the law if I continue to be a member of any vaping forum or even read about ecigs in anyway shape or form on the internet, least I'll still be able to look at tobacco and see their adverts it's completely ridiculous.

 

[DavidOck]

I've been officially told that the UK will fully implement the whole tobacco products directive in may 2016 so for us in the UK the fight is well and truly over hope our cousins across the Atlantic have better fortune with your fight.

Yet your NHS is going to start prescribing (a limited selection) ecigs next month.

E-cigarettes could be prescribed by the NHS to help smokers quit, report says - BBC News

and there were reports a few weeks back that it's going to happen, but can't find the links atm...

Yep, BigPharma wants its cut.