If you have a heart condition, Don't read this!

[rothenbj]

Am I reading this correctly?

Analysis - Tobacco floats new products but relies on pricing | Reuters

Public health experts have split over whether to promote smokeless products, battery-powered electronic cigarettes -- which allow the user to inhale nicotine in a vaporized solution -- and other noncigarette products as a step to quitting smoking, said John Banzhaf, executive director of Washington, D.C., nonprofit Action on Smoking and Health.
"Do we lightly regulate and in effect encourage these other products to allow people to switch from smoking and remain forever on e-cigarettes or snus or whatever?" Banzhaf said.
"If the philosophy in the FDA is that the public health can be served by encouraging the development of snus and other products, they can write regulations that do exactly that," he said.

Am I misreading what he said or do I feel a change in the wind?

 

[Drozd]

I think it's a little of both actually.....
I think he's saying that if in the mind of the FDA that public health can be served to encourage the development of products that gets people completely clean then they could write regulations to do exactly that versus just light regulations that would encourage continued use of snus or e-cigs....

basically he's saying that they should be regulated and developed as a quit smoking aid and not as a continued use product (not as an alternative or substitute) within the FDA's philosophy.... (it's a nice way of him backing up the drug delivery device stance)

 

[MoonRose]

Just finished reading that whole article, and yes, I do think there is a change in the wind. We have to keep up the pressure, no slacking off on our parts to promote the overall good benefits we, as vapors, are experiencing from using our e-cigs. They are starting to hear us, and some are actually starting to listen to reason it would seem.

Just perhaps, the old Mayan elder that the hubby and I heard this evening speaking on the meaning of 2012 is telling us the truth, it's not the end of the world coming but the age of wisdom beginning.

 

[dk2]

They still don't understand that I like vaping. I enjoy it and I don't want it regulated so that I need a prescription to buy juice or devices. I'm not using vaping as a smoking cessation device (quit smoking analogs months ago) I vape for recreation and relaxation. To prove my point I use both nicotine and non nicotine juices, it's not just about the nicotine. The problem is even with a change in the wind there has to be more than one classification for ecigs, you can't just lump ecigs and juice into the smoking cessation category. People use them for different reasons and the FDA just doesn't understand this.

 

[MoonRose]

They still don't understand that I like vaping. I enjoy it and I don't want it regulated so that I need a prescription to buy juice or devices. I'm not using vaping as a smoking cessation device (quit smoking analogs months ago) I vape for recreation and relaxation. To prove my point I use both nicotine and non nicotine juices, it's not just about the nicotine. The problem is even with a change in the wind there has to be more than one classification for ecigs, you can't just lump ecigs and juice into the smoking cessation category. People use them for different reasons and the FDA just doesn't understand this.

That's why we must keep up the pressure on all fronts so that they will be classified as a smoking alternative and not a drug delivery device.

 

[Chasm]

possibly, but he did say "if", and maybe he realizes that he shouldn't sound like a lunatic if he is going to be quoted by Reuters.

 

[rothenbj]

I think it's a little of both actually.....
I think he's saying that if in the mind of the FDA that public health can be served to encourage the development of products that gets people completely clean then they could write regulations to do exactly that versus just light regulations that would encourage continued use of snus or e-cigs....

basically he's saying that they should be regulated and developed as a quit smoking aid and not as a continued use product (not as an alternative or substitute) within the FDA's philosophy.... (it's a nice way of him backing up the drug delivery device stance)

I'd be tempted to agree with you except for the words "encouraging the development of snus and other products". You're not going to develop snus as a quit smoking aid and the other products would seem to include E cigs. If the man has paid any attention, 1. there is a lot of positive being printed and commented and 2. the wind seems to be blowing in his face at this point. He may be hedging what he feels may be a losing position.

Of course, I may be wishfully thinking and he did say, "if the FDA.....". However, the more screaming we do about the "health" organization being in bed with BP may be of some concern to them. It really is an ugly little party they've been conducting. JMHO

 

[stacym]

They still don't understand that I like vaping. I enjoy it and I don't want it regulated so that I need a prescription to buy juice or devices. I'm not using vaping as a smoking cessation device (quit smoking analogs months ago) I vape for recreation and relaxation. To prove my point I use both nicotine and non nicotine juices, it's not just about the nicotine. The problem is even with a change in the wind there has to be more than one classification for ecigs, you can't just lump ecigs and juice into the smoking cessation category. People use them for different reasons and the FDA just doesn't understand this.

Actually - you don't need a prescription for nicotine patches. They are regulated by FDA as an over the counter smoking cessation product - but you can buy all you want and keep using it forever. I can live with that for e-cigs... Sure - I prefer things to stay the way they are- but if it gets regulated as an OTC product we're not going to have to get a prescription. It will however cause a lot of the smaller vendors to go under. Companies will be required to be registered with FDA and follow cGMP guidelines.

I kind of see this quote (didn't read the full article) as being a positive. It indicates the regulators may be listening to other points of view.

 

[Drozd]

I'd be tempted to agree with you except for the words "encouraging the development of snus and other products". You're not going to develop snus as a quit smoking aid and the other products would seem to include E cigs. If the man has paid any attention, 1. there is a lot of positive being printed and commented and 2. the wind seems to be blowing in his face at this point. He may be hedging what he feels may be a losing position.

Of course, I may be wishfully thinking and he did say, "if the FDA.....". However, the more screaming we do about the "health" organization being in bed with BP may be of some concern to them. It really is an ugly little party they've been conducting. JMHO

I see that IF as in a defering totally to the FDA if..... as in IF the FDA says it's in the public's health interest than ok but until then it's business as usual...
remember this guy has been radical crazy anti-smoking for years and years.... he even continued on with his anti e-cig rants after the UK version of ASH pretty much said they were cool with them..... he's NOT known to backpeddle unless he's in danger of losing a courtcase (and then he drops it and spins it (look at the whole ASH versus OSHA debacle)......
so it'd seem very counter to his established behavior...
I think in this case he just may have been better at the doublespeak and hedging his statements...

As for the snus ...well no...but it's phrased as non cigarette products....which would include disolveables (which BP does have their own version) and whether they're lightly regulated or not which would encourage long term use of things like e-cigs and snus....
like I said it's very carefully couched doublespeak.... talking about developing non cigarette products and IF the FDA will aprove them and regulate versus light regulation that would allow long term use of (here's the slight of hand switch out) things like e-cigs and snus

 

[MoonRose]

Just an off the cuff thought here, but maybe a close family member of his is using the e-cigs and is putting pressure on him as well about being such a backwards a** about it all. Maybe Mom or Dad has been able to finally stop smoking tobacco cigarettes with the use of an e-cig. Stranger things have been known to happen.

 

[CaptJay]

possibly, but he did say "if", and maybe he realizes that he shouldn't sound like a lunatic if he is going to be quoted by Reuters.

This reply made me laugh so hard I spilled my coffee /prize

Celebrities are now openly using PV in shows and on camera - I think the FDA are now wondering if they should not have acted the way they did with SE/NJoy products (ie trying to seize them) and they may have died a death on their own. Now thanks to all the publicity, they are more well known than before. I also get a feeling that certain govt agencies are looking more closely at what the FDA are up to - as in operating outside of their purview instead of regulating prescription drugs (and they are doing that badly if we take the class action suits as an example of their prowess).

Edit: ack I hit enter before finishing -
As for Banzhaf - he IS a lunatic - hard to outspin that one - I'm always surprised when I see pics of him NOT foaming at the mouth.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

I'm pretty sure that he's saying that FDA has the authority to regulate all tobacco, and if they, in their infinite wisdom, agreed with the harm-reductionists, they would draft policies and regulations to support long-term use of other products. The implication is that FDA knows best, and since THEY obviously don't buy into harm reduction, neither should anyone else.
It's poorly worded, and gives me the impression that it's chopped from a longer diatribe.

 

[Drozd]

Just an off the cuff thought here, but maybe a close family member of his is using the e-cigs and is putting pressure on him as well about being such a backwards a** about it all. Maybe Mom or Dad has been able to finally stop smoking tobacco cigarettes with the use of an e-cig. Stranger things have been known to happen.

no offense but are you familiar with this man, and his past rants and diatribes?
this is the man that tells you how to get smokers in your apartment building eveicted...how to work the system to work smoking parents into nasty devorce preceedings or CPS involved if seen smoking in your car with your child....
who's made several outlandish anti e-cig statements time and time again to the press.....and had a how to sue e-cig seller kits available on craigslist....

I'm pretty sure he'd sacrifice his own relative rather than approve of them

 

[Bovinia]

Alexza Pharma licenses smoking cessation product - BusinessWeek
I felt that this gives an indication on the direction things will go. BP and FDA see too many $$ to pass up.

 

[ImYourSalt]

nice read! maybe things will work out for us after all!

 

[Bovinia]

http://www.banzhafwatch.org/

This is amusing, altho I'm sure most of you have already been to this site

http://www.wusa9.com/rss/local_article.aspx?storyid=94184
This article was written in 2009 but now I am really confused. Read his quotes in the article, and then tell me how he can now be dead against the very thing he said in 2009! Simply mind boggling.

"Given that all the other quitting methods have such abysmal success rates, anything above abysmal might be pretty damn good,"
"It is so difficult for people to quit smoking because it's a two part problem," said Banzhaff. "The second part is that psychological habituation. People are so used to smoking that cigarette after their morning coffee. It's not effective unless it is used in combination with techniques to help people adjust to the routine of not smoking."

 

[ckc]

The last PR i read by Banzhaffff was one to do with Harm Reduction saying he had some sort of calculator on how many people would be saved. Basically he said more people would die from the lesser diseases by moving on to Reduced Harm Products instead of quiting and staying alive (ha ha ha) so he didn't agree with it.He still just wants everyone to just quit. I'm not going to hunt for a link,reading it once was bad enough ;-)

 

[gice]

Cigarette consumption in the United States shrinks more than 2 percent each year, according to Euromonitor International data, but companies such as Marlboro cigarette maker Altria, Camel maker Reynolds and Newport maker Lorillard Inc (LO.N) use price hikes to compensate.

Altria shares were down 1.3 percent at $22.55 on the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday afternoon. Reynolds shares were down 1.1 percent at $56.04, Lorillard was down 0.5 percent at $77.61 and Philip Morris was down 0.9 percent at $51.05.

That's a good to hear.

 

[Vocalek]

Hmm... In 1991 there were 46+ million adult smokers. At last count there were 46 million adult smokers. So does that mean that they miscounted the number of smokers somewhere along the way? Or does it mean that the people who smoked a pack a day in 1991 now smoke only 13 cigarettes a day?

 

[rothenbj]

Hmm... In 1991 there were 46+ million adult smokers. At last count there were 46 million adult smokers. So does that mean that they miscounted the number of smokers somewhere along the way? Or does it mean that the people who smoked a pack a day in 1991 now smoke only 13 cigarettes a day?

I would suppose that somehow in their count mix, they are losing track of those that are working outside the "regular channels". Somewhere along the line, I did a calculation based on smokers dieing and youngsters becoming full time smokers and the delta was something like 38,000 people. This anti-smoking effort has definitely bogged down if not going the wrong way for the antis.

The ?non-profit?"health" organizations are so busy spending time and money trying to stop products like e cigarettes that they can't focus their efforts on educating our youth not to smoke. That, or perhaps, the appearance of trying to stop people from starting smoking by pushing for bans like the one on flavored cigarettes, pushing for closing down e cigarettes and stopping smokeless products from entering the market gives the appearance of trying to stop smoking while keeping the cash cow producing that beautiful green milk.

I spent a very unpleasant four or five hours in front of Children's Hospital of Penn and U of P Emergency room this afternoon and evening with all the signs plastered outside declaring these hospitals smoke free, inside and out. The clientele were smoking while sitting and texting on the flower bed concrete sills. The ambulance attendees were grabbing smokes, the police were grabbing smokes. I think the policies are working.

I got hassled about having a small dog that happened to be in the car accident with my gf and her nephew more than anyone was hassling the smokers. Fortunately all three appear to have survived a very scary roll over accident and all are now home. I did get a first hand view of a gunshot victim that the police rushed into emergency as I was sitting there snusing and vaping while protecting the dog from the hospital authorities.