I'm not trying to be difficult but...

[sailorman]

.....

So, maybe we need to be the EC/PVF? or something? Or does it really matter, as long as everyone's happily vaping?

Unfortunately, it does matter if we want to continue on happily vaping. The distinction between vaping and smoking must be drilled into the public consciousness. If we don't do it, the antis will conflate the two. They have a head start already. I get evidence of that every single time I talk to a bartender or manager, or a restaurant manager, who didn't allow vaping until he was informed of the difference between vaping and smoking. That tells me that the antis are controlling the debate and their misinformation is the major reason they gain public support for including vaporizers in indoor air regulations.

I don't think it's futile to re-define e-cigs as vaporizers. It's not really re-defining anyway. One thing I've learned by following politics is that words change connotations all the time and it has impact. Words get co-opted all the time.

Who is for a "death" tax? Public approval for the estate tax dropped by half, merely by re-naming it as a "death tax". Look at what happened when the word "gay" was used to denote homosexuality. It was pure genius. Who can be against "gay"? Who is against a "vaporizer"? The word homosexual is the choice word used by those who wish to demonize and denigrate. Cigarette is the word preferred by those who wish to demonize anything that delivers nicotine. Vaporizer is our "gay". Cigarette is our "homosexual".

 

[sailorman]

I don't think it really matters. There are a lot of people, under represented on these boards, who are not and won't ever be enthusiasts. Of course the language matters to us but I just think our perception might be a little subjective. Saying that we should call them PVs and use the word vaping isn't going to stop all the aunt Irenes and uncle Bobs in the world from "smoking their new electronic cigarette". I think thats a wall that is still going to be standing long after anyone gets tired of banging their head against it.

I'm sure that's what certain politicians told Frank Luntz when he came up with the name "Death tax". Aunt Irene and Uncle Bob never made more than $50K in their lives. What do they care about an estate tax that only kicks in after the first million $ or so? Then, they started calling the estate tax the "death tax" and suddenly miliions of Aunt Irenes and Uncle Bobs were cursing it and talking about how it was unfair to tax their children's inheritances. Never ever underestimate the power of language, or how fast it can be employed.

Unfortunately, the biggest enemies are the greedy companies who use the word cigarette as a sales tool. They are allies of the antis who would love better than to conflate vaporizers and cigarettes in the public mind. Their greed may well be their undoing. It almost was and it yet could still be.

 

[lamar]

Very good point... I like what I like and sometimes people think a little different. Glad to hear you step outside the lines and found what you like. I like my tanks too.

 

[Malawi]

I think she meant VG. Some people say that Boges (or any polyfilled carto) are a pain with high VG juice. Personally, I never had that problem. I started with 100%VG and used cartos all the time.

I was thinking more of the TH thing. AFAIK more PG gives more TH, while VG gives more "smoke".

With the cartos, my experience is that high PG is harder to get right as the polyfill will not hold the juice well enough.
Just waiting for supplies, so that I can switch to carto-tanks.

 

[tamarahvt]

don't get me wrong at all Tam I am in your camp. If you are short or give a crappy reply playing the holier than though routine with a new visitor you may in fact discourage them from participating with our discussions. We all seek acceptance on some level and all look for validation from like minded individuals and often feel stepped on when our perogative is not well received.

My advice was simply meant as a do not be discouraged. After re-reading my post I noted that if read in the wrong frame of mind that it may be misconstrued as "suck it up cupcake" which was not the intention but more of a piss on them if they don't like it type post.

Running a forum and website on a completely separate topic I have seen others who failed to negotiate an improper comment and lost themselves and their access privilege because they flipped instead of responding appropriately. You don't want to be that guy.

Thanks, I took it in the spirit it was intended. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't myself I was worried about. This isn't my first internet rodeo and I know not to take words on a screen too seriously. I'm just worried about the other guys.

 

[tamarahvt]

Well, there's the fundamental problem. There are a handful of Youtube reviewers that are knowledgeable, unbiased and worth paying attention to. (Pbusardo, Smoky and Grimm Green come to mind, but there are a very few others). 98% of the rest are shills, pitchmen, or just plain old idiots and burnouts. And definitely NEVER pay attention to any review by someone offering a discount code, unless that exact same code is available on the vendors website or forum.

Youtube, when it comes to product reviews, has degenerated into a big cesspool of commercialized spam. It takes some experience to navigate it safely. Unfortunately, the exact people who rely on these reviews are likely to be the newbs that lack the experience needed to avoid sinking into the mire.

My PV choice was not based on youtube reviews but on this Best E-Cigarette for a New User

 

[Chopper71]

OP you have a very good point as I was in the same boat when I started.After trying many different PV's Ive found what works for me and its not a 200 plus dollar device.My main ones are a Kgo,GoGo,and Riva/Ego.I use tanks everyday,but I do use Boges in them.And for me they work great and I get about 3 days worth out of each carto.I a chain vaper you could say.I also recently found the Kanger 510 horizontal coil carto and they are awesome,but that's just my opinion.The Kangers you can take out the filler clean it and dry burn the coil and its just like having a new carto.Ive got one in a tank now that is over 3 weeks old and is still going strong with regular cleaning.Always stay true to yourself no matter the opinions of others.

 

[KaitLynnHt]

I've been vaping for less than 2 weeks and - start to finish - I was able to get started and make my first purchases thanks to the members of this community holding my hand the whole way.

An explanation before I get started. Though most see the terms 'noob' and 'newb' as synonymous, I see them this way. A newb is someone who is new to a place or an activity. They don't know the rules or how it works, but they research and learn and slowly leave their newbish days behind. A noob can be someone who is new to a place or activity, but even older members can be noobish. It's a person who doesn't want to learn the rules, doesn't take the time to search for answers or do a bit of research. Or an experienced member who, despite their experience, expects everyone to act like them, newbs included.

That being said, I completely agree with most of what the OP said, kinda fuzzy on some of it. For the most part my feeling is this. All opinions are just that, opinions. They are not fact. If someone says "Tanks are the better than cartomizers" that may be true for them, but its is only their opinion. As a newb or someone new to vaping, one should ask for opinions and recommendations keeping in mind that they are just that. Even then, one should do their own research first, have in mind what they are looking for in a PV and be specific about what your looking for when asking for said recommendations.

IMHO, a noob comes in without doing any prior research (or is unwilling once they learn of their choices), and expects someone to tell them what to buy. Then they simply purchase the first thing recommended or whatever seems 'popular', followed by complaining because they don't like it. (This is not personally directed at OP but some threads I've seen or possible scenarios.)

A noob can also be any member, new or otherwise who insists that their way is best and everyone should follow suit. I've seen so many Vets in various threads (not all in the new members forum) putting down new members for not being as experienced (or whatever their problem is). Or as OP said, comments like:

"Real vapers use _____", or,"Only silly n00bs like ______".

Let's just say it takes one to know one. Only a complete noob would think that their awesome setup will work for everyone coming into the community. Like said many times before me, its is not one-size-fits-all, it's trial and error, its research and decisions. Everyone is different with different tastes and different needs. Insisting that a newb who's never used a PV in their life use some uber tricked out mod that, while may be awesome and works great, may be too complicated in its use is the best way to scare someone away from vaping.

For the most part, I am completely happy with how many helpful people are here who are willing to give recommendations but are careful to add the 'disclaimer' that this might not work for everyone or ask specific questions about what someone is looking for in New Member threads to insure that they have the best experience ever. I don't see many "buy this now or GDIAF", though there are a few, luckily most I've seen are in discussions between more experienced members and not aimed toward new members.

I am quite happy with my first purchase and will probably use it for some time to come. And it was not my first choice. My awesome experience so far has been entirely due to the recommendations (and encouragement) I've gotten from this community.

Guess the same goes for the experience; one size does not fit all. ^_^

 

[sailorman]

My PV choice was not based on youtube reviews but on this Best E-Cigarette for a New User

Right. I wasn't implying that's how you made your choice.
YT reviews were mentioned as the way some people decide and that's their fundamental mistake.

 

[sailorman]

I've seen so many Vets in various threads (not all in the new members forum) putting down new members for not being as experienced (or whatever their problem is). Or as OP said, comments like:
"Real vapers use _____", or,"Only silly n00bs like ______".

Not to be argumentative, but where have you seen this? I can't remember ever seeing anyone put down a newb like that. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd do a search for "silly newb", because I've never seen that term used.

The closest thing to that I've ever seen is someone saying something like "falling for free trials is a newb mistake", or "___ is a piece of junk that only newbs fall for". Seems to me that those particular statements are most often statements of facts. There ARE pieces of junk out there, calculated to appeal to the newbs who buy them. There ARE rip-offs that only a newb would fall for. That's not disparaging of newbs. That's not mere opinion. That's a true comment about certain facts that result from million dollar marketing budgets aimed at newbs. Newbs are well served to be made aware of them.

 

[KaitLynnHt]

Not to be argumentative, but where have you seen this? I can't remember ever seeing anyone put down a newb like that. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd do a search for "silly newb", because I've never seen that term used.

I would have to remember what I was searching for at the time, but did stumble across a couple posts that had turned into 'noob' bashing and degradation. I don't have any links for you, because I didn't think I'd need 'evidence'. It's the internet, you see stuff like that everywhere. If you did a search for silly newb you'd probably just find this thread, unless the OP was speaking of a specific comment she saw. I was speaking in general, I've seen comments similar to them.

The closest thing to that I've ever seen is someone saying something like "falling for free trials is a newb mistake", or "___ is a piece of junk that only newbs fall for". Seems to me that those particular statements are most often statements of facts. There ARE pieces of junk out there, calculated to appeal to the newbs who buy them. There ARE rip-offs that only a newb would fall for. That's not disparaging of newbs. That's not mere opinion. That's a true comment about certain facts that result from million dollar marketing budgets aimed at newbs. Newbs are well served to be made aware of them.

Okay, and those aren't bad examples. And there are 'newb' mistakes, it's part of being new and what hopefully being active in this community will help be avoided. BUT there are ways to make new users aware of these products without making them feel like complete crap. I think the point of all this is the attitude of some in the community that believe that newb is synonymous with idiot. People who are new to vaping are not necessarily idiots or stupid (you do get a few, it is the internet after all) - they are simply uninformed and looking for answers.

Recommending a product (or not to use a product) should be information given in such a way that is informative and not just "Do it because I told you to". Don't make a new member feel like an idiot because they saw an ad for some marketed piece of crap and wanted more information (not saying you do this, but just a general comment).

All in all, however, this is a great community. But it is as such, a community. Personalities clash, people don't think the same way. It's no big deal, it's just a fact that it does exist, even if in a much smaller amount than I've seen on other forums. You will always have elitists everywhere you go who treat anyone who hasn't been a member or vaping (or gaming, skiing, whatever the case may be) as long as them an ignorant noob whom they are superior to.

And as stated, I've seen very little of this and nothing so extreme in the New Members forum when actually conversing with a new member. Most of the newb bashing I've seen is between older members on other forums. Still disrespectful for any who stumble across it, but its going to happen. Just don't have to like it.

My two cents...

 

[sailorman]

I see. I just can't help thinking though, that the OP has kind of brought up a non-issue. There are thousands of posts and posters and personalities here. It's amazing to me that cases like that are so very rare that I'd have to go hunting for them. It seems to me that this is a case of making a small mountain out of an even smaller molehill.

 

[tattoodmommy]

the way I see it, if it gets you off regular cigarettes then that's all that matters. If someone else don't like what helped you, then they will find what works for them, no sense in putting someone down for their choice. there are many different brands, many different models, many different CHOICES for the soul purpose of everyone being able to have what works for them.

 

[KaitLynnHt]

Well, it seems like something that she has experienced herself, so it may be an issue for her. If I offended with my reply, I apologize. I'm not easily offended and I sometimes aren't as tactful in my words as I could be. I saw the post and saw something that I see everywhere on other forums I've been a part of that has been an issue for me before, so I added my opinion to the pot. But as you said, thousands of threads and members with different personalities. It'd be pretty boring around here otherwise. ^_^

 

[sailorman]

Well, it seems like something that she has experienced herself, so it may be an issue for her. If I offended with my reply, I apologize. I'm not easily offended and I sometimes aren't as tactful in my words as I could be. I saw the post and saw something that I see everywhere on other forums I've been a part of that has been an issue for me before, so I added my opinion to the pot. But as you said, thousands of threads and members with different personalities. It'd be pretty boring around here otherwise. ^_^

No offense taken at all. I'm like you, not so thin-skinned and therefore susceptible to occasional tact lapses. But there was nothing offensive in your post that I could see.

Regarding you last point you reminded me of another forum I belong to. I can barely stand to go there anymore because of the extreme, artificial and absurd lengths everyone is expected to go to in order to be "gentlemanly" and avoid the slightest possibility of offending anyone. It's absolutely ridiculous and comes off as a massive game of who can be the most phony. Reminds me of the old skit where two dandys are standing at an open door, trying to compete on who can be the most polite. "After you, my dear Alphonse. No, after you. No, I insist; after you. No, I'll hear none of it; after you".... etc., etc, etc. and ad-infinitum until midnight when they're still standing there "No, after you".

 

[theWayISshut]

An explanation before I get started. Though most see the terms 'noob' and 'newb' as synonymous, I see them this way. A newb is someone who is new to a place or an activity. They don't know the rules or how it works, but they research and learn and slowly leave their newbish days behind. A noob can be someone who is new to a place or activity, but even older members can be noobish. It's a person who doesn't want to learn the rules, doesn't take the time to search for answers or do a bit of research. Or an experienced member who, despite their experience, expects everyone to act like them, newbs included.

That's a good description of a noob. Immediate answers are just a few clicks away via google, but they'd rather just repeat the same question that's been asked thousands of times already.

Just now, I saw the same "0 nic with throat hit" thread again. It pops up every other week or so. Some people are just too damn lazy.

 

[rolandpibb]

That's a good description of a noob. Immediate answers are just a few clicks away via google, but they'd rather just repeat the same question that's been asked thousands of times already.

Just now, I saw the same "0 nic with throat hit" thread again. It pops up every other week or so. Some people are just too damn lazy.

Lol, I'm sure I asked a few stupid questions in the beginning, but the first thing I ever did here was read through Don DaBoomVape's illustrated guide to the wonderful world of vaping.

 

[krnxguhj33]

I'm sure that many questions are repeated but then again, there is so much information that I found myself asking questions to which answers were "readily found" 15 pages later... So I guess I can understand. For someone who has NEVER vaped before, these are legitimate questions to be asked but if there is a thread on the front page.. Different story. :]

 

[LeDean]

Great thread, Tamarahvt. My husband loves his Provari. He may never find a better vaping device. However, I don't like it at all. Don't get me wrong, I tried to love it. But, for some reason, I want to be buried with my Lavatube. It just feels right.

 

[Bradder]

Wouldn't be so hard on some of the new members to post questions that have already been posted before.

As everyone knows, the search function here is a bit wonky (as it can be with any forum) and new members do need to get a "post count" to access other areas.