IMPORTANT - email from FDA to a supplier.

[Savantster]

. . . I recently got sick (thanks to a bug brought home from daycare)

you look a little old to be in daycare, but ok..

. . .and after three days in bed realized that I hadn't had the urge to smoke the entire time. I was shocked. There are days where I smoke my ecig all day long because I want to and days where I barely touch it at all. I was routine with the tobacco.

I don't get sick often, but I remember one time I was so sick I stayed in bed for 3 days, like you did.. I drug myself out to smoke several times a day, but wasn't well enough to drink any coffee.. On that 3rd day I was feeling MUCH better, other than a nasty headache that had me nauseous from the pain.. I realized I hadn't had coffee in 3 days.. a pot later and I was right as rain..

If what you're saying about "nicotine" ends up being true, then tobacco is the vile beast in the addiction, not what they are blaming, and caffeine is much worse than either (in terms of withdrawal).

I hope Health New Zealand does the follow up and finds out if the MAOI aspects of tobacco smoke contribute to the nicotine addiction, or even if nicotine is addictive at all. I suspect it is, but you never know.. On its own, it might not be that bad, I don't think it has ever been heavily studied outside of cigs..

 

[OutWest]

I truly think another part of the addiction to tobacco is all the additives. For example, many cigarettes have valerian root extract (basically speaking, a natural form of valium). On documents filed with the government, it's listed as "flavoring". And, I know I dont get near as satisfying of a smoke from additive-free cigarettes as I do a Marlboro. Yes, nicotine is addictive, but I do believe that it's not the only addictive substance in cigarettes.

 

[SnarkyClark]

...

The problem is we're going after "drugs" in general while also putting drug after drug on TV and saying "nevermind that you might have chronic nose bleeds, you won't be sneezing from dander any more!".

Our society has become psychotic, I think.

I believe a more accurate term would be "schizophrenic":

...most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking...

Yup, that sounds like us alright. Next time someone pulls out an overused label like McCarthyism (whatever that heck that is) or facism (sometimes deserved), you can counter with "Nope, just mass schizophrenia"

 

[wanderlust]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the leading cause of death in the US is attributed to heart disease and one, if not the most deadly byproduct of cigarette use is carbon monoxide which is not only inhaled by the user but shared with those around in the form of second hand smoke. This is what the authorities were up in arms about with second hand smoke a long time ago - not nicotine. The whole anti-smoking establishment (joe on the street) does not consider this issue but just rolls it all up in "nicotine" and gets offended if someone smokes within proximity. It seems as if the whole thing is off track and the medical community is not directly addressing the right issue. There are few laws in this country prohibiting chemicals in an adult. It may be unlawful to posess/attempt to posess the chemicals or means of introduction to the chemicals but, laws are made to protect the public interest and seldom to prohibit or restrict individual freedoms. Prohibiting nicotine "per se" smacks of socialism. I would no more approve of nicotine prohibitions than caffeine restrictions. Thanks for the vent...and, uh, for not smoking.

 

[TropicalBob]

Did you folks see what KatyS posted about her supply order? This gets back to the main topic of this thread. And it's devastating:

"If you have visited my site today, you will see that the FDA has siezed my orders, they are in limbo now. I was not importing any liquid or filled carts, just pieces atomizers and batteries, chargers, empty carts. So I am sick about this. I ordered from 2 different suppliers to try to avoid this, but it seems to no avail. I will keep you posted."

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Did you folks see what KatyS posted about her supply order? This gets back to the main topic of this thread. And it's devastating:

Looks like the shutdown is beginning. Has any other retailers been hit, or is she the only one?

 

[jerimiah797]

<<snip>> ... Prohibiting nicotine "per se" smacks of socialism. I would no more approve of nicotine prohibitions than caffeine restrictions. Thanks for the vent...and, uh, for not smoking.

I think you meant moral extremism (aka puritanism), not socialism. Socialism is an economic structure somewhere between capitalism and communism, which are also economic structures.

-Jerimiah

 

[yvilla]

I think you meant moral extremism (aka puritanism), not socialism. Socialism is an economic structure somewhere between capitalism and communism, which are also economic structures.

-Jerimiah

Thanks Jerimiah!

Wanderlust, I was with you all the way until you got to that.

Especially agree with your point about carbon monoxide as being the real villain in terms of the devastating cardiovascular impacts of smoking. I have peripheral vascular disease, and my vascular surgeon agrees with you too! He was adamant that I had to stop smoking - mainly due to the killer carbon monoxide/combustion byproducts of smoking - and was quite happy to see me using my ecig.

 

[wanderlust]

Gotcha jerimiah, guess I just believe in capitalism and fell back into some good ayn rand thinking. Yvilla is right though about the harm reduction. Guess that was the point I really wanted to make. Seems like we've been provided the wrong battle for the wrong reason but must still fight the cause.

 

[jerimiah797]

No problem, wanderlust.

Way Off Topic: I'm getting interested in this new theory that eliminates money and moves to a resource based economy. Sort of a technological utopia. Sounds pretty radical, I know, and it is. It challenges everything we assume about our monetary based economy, and I like things that challenge me and my way of thinking. It takes all the monetary-based economies (capitalism, socialism, communism) and says we need to chuck them out the window.

If you want to watch their introduction video, it's here:
The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation

The first couple minutes comes across as a little hippy-dippy, but the arguments in the video are interesting, IMHO.

-Jerimiah

 

[sherid]

And pharmaceutical dependent. I think it was 1997 when there was a big discussion about allowing pharms to be advertised on tv. The argument that won was people should be more informed about the drugs available so they can encourage their doctors to treat them with these drugs.

Here is an interesting take on the whole issue: Direct-To-Consumer Advertising - for or against? - European Public Health Alliance

AND, the fastest growing drug problem in America is prescription drugs. Kids sometimes even manage to kill themselves with them....yet they are legal and very easy to get.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

AND, the fastest growing drug problem in America is prescription drugs. Kids sometimes even manage to kill themselves with them....yet they are legal and very easy to get.

My daughter was 1 when her first teacher suggested that I have her evaluated for attention deficit and have her put on ritalin since she was biting. A week later, I discovered they were putting her in a high chair for four hours at a time so when she got out, she went literally crazy running around and biting children.

I should of kicked that woman's .... Instead, made a complaint on her state daycare license, pulled her out of that school and miraculously the biting stopped. No drug intervention needed. Shocker.

 

[That Guy]

Very nice info

 

[gtmason]

Good information, very useful. I look forward to the day when the FDA has to answer in court.

 

[Nick_Vapours]

A legitimate argue could be made that if they want to schedule nicotine as a "drug"
and control it as such, they logically would have to do the same with caffiene, and their favoured delivery system of coffee.
I think that argument would hold up and that would put their brakes on pretty fast

 

[Closet Toker]

My daughter was 1 when her first teacher suggested that I have her evaluated for attention deficit and have her put on ritalin since she was biting. A week later, I discovered they were putting her in a high chair for four hours at a time so when she got out, she went literally crazy running around and biting children.

I should of kicked that woman's .... Instead, made a complaint on her state daycare license, pulled her out of that school and miraculously the biting stopped. No drug intervention needed. Shocker.

Yes, It is a trend nowadays, if a child has problems, just keep 'em doped up.

 

[Chevron07]

A legitimate argue could be made that if they want to schedule nicotine as a "drug"
and control it as such, they logically would have to do the same with caffiene, and their favoured delivery system of coffee.
I think that argument would hold up and that would put their brakes on pretty fast

I'm pretty sure the delivery system is actually a cup. The coffee is caffeine suspended in a flavored solution meant to be ingested which often contains sugar (which has it's own set of health risks).

 

[Vapor Fiend]

The FDA is so full of crap. Nicotine is not a "new drug", sorry.

This is the result of Phillip Morris and The Government making the FDA stall the sale and consumption of electronic cigarettes in an effort to find some way for them to make money off of it.

My prediction is that if/when/ever the FDA approves or denies the use of these, you will see Phillip Morris come out with it's own version with actual brand name cartridges and juice. It's a money game, just like always.

This same type of thing happend with marijuana in the 1960's for those of you who remember.

 

[b00stzx3]

Something I read earlier, that e-liquid is much more dangerous to kids than the aproved NRTs. I have orange and mint nicotine gum, both taste very good for being nicotine gum. In fact the mint is rather enjoyable. A kid chewing a couple pieces of gum would porbably do the same amount of damage as them chugging a 10ml bottle of 24mg E-juice. The patches, well kids like sticker don't they? Put a couple on and that child might get stick as heck as well.

 

[smokum]

Its not that "nicotine" is a NEW drug, I believe they are considering the combination of nictotine along with PG/VG and flavourings to be considered a new drug.

Are they right in doing so ?? I personally have no idea.

VapeOn,
Greg