Independent lab analysis of FDA study

[grimmer255]

The thing is even with the testing of how safe these are will not hold up....yea they may be safe now but what about tomorrow or next week or next month. What needs to be done is the manufactures nee to show and prove there methods of quality control to assure the FDA that they are up to code to prevent any major incidents. Well thats my take anyway.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Kina--you may want to take another look at aspirin as it would never be apporved today if it was new:

"As a drug discovery researcher, I can tell you something that might sound crazy: many of these older drugs would have a hard time getting approved today. Some of them would never even have made it to the FDA at all.

The best example is aspirin itself. It's one of the foundation stones of the drug industry, and it's hard to even guess how many billions of doses of it have been taken over the last hundred years. But if you were somehow able to change history so that aspirin had never been discovered until this year, I can guarantee you that it would have died in the lab. No modern drug development organization would touch it."

See Aspirin: Not Approvable, Medical Progress Today et al

Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

The thing is even with the testing of how safe these are will not hold up....yea they may be safe now but what about tomorrow or next week or next month. What needs to be done is the manufactures nee to show and prove there methods of quality control to assure the FDA that they are up to code to prevent any major incidents. Well thats my take anyway.

Safe is a relative term, because nothing is completely safe - nothing.

Long term there might be some issues for some people, but i very much doubt these would come close to being sufficient reason to declare it unsafe. And that is looking at it in its own right; looked at as a reduced-harm alternative to smoking - no contest.

 

[HaploVoss]

Kina--you may want to take another look at aspirin as it would never be apporved today if it was new:

"As a drug discovery researcher, I can tell you something that might sound crazy: many of these older drugs would have a hard time getting approved today. Some of them would never even have made it to the FDA at all.

The best example is aspirin itself. It's one of the foundation stones of the drug industry, and it's hard to even guess how many billions of doses of it have been taken over the last hundred years. But if you were somehow able to change history so that aspirin had never been discovered until this year, I can guarantee you that it would have died in the lab. No modern drug development organization would touch it."

See Aspirin: Not Approvable, Medical Progress Today et al

Sun

I rest my case. It doesn't matter what I say - the case in relation to e-cigs is moving forward - my point is that there are exceptions made and others created. I was not specifically referring to safety or drug classification, only to how things are being done scientifically. It does not matter anymore... only matters how much a product has influence.

Case in point.

- Hap

 

[Sebastian]

Thought some might be interested in our first available lab report:

Independent Lab Report

I've had to sit on it a while, but it is squeaky clean no Diethylene Glycol or tobacco Specific Nitrosamines. Sorry for the long wait but we've been really busy. Additionally, it is notable that these tests were done independently and we didn't pay them, or ANY of our other labs, to do our testing. Therefore it is as bias free as possible.

Thanks and please feel free to comment or email any questions.

Sebastian

 

[kinabaloo]

My understanding is that once upon a time e-liquid was produced by soaking tobacco - carefully of course - with the intention of keeping some of the flavor; still no combustion involved with use. But some undesirables get in the mix too.

More recently, juices are made from highly purified nicotine (still from tobacco afaik).

I think this is one of the reasons why some miss the flavor of the 'old recipe'.

The TNSAs found in e-liquid were thousands of times less than in a marlboro analog. So a term like 'squeeky clean' is appropriate for the newer juices which dont have any (too little to detect even with high-ech equipment).

E-liquid, particularly afer being heated, cannot be 'safe' in the sense of absolutely 0.000000% undesirables; that is a test nothing would pass, not even the purest organic carrot. But while a smoker's toxic load would be mostly attributable to smoking, vaping is likely to contribute only a small or very small proportion. More 'load' than 'toxin'. For example, PG would need to be metabolised, which for most people is simple and full; this loading on the body is likely very small relative to metabolising food.

 

[Territoo]

Thought some might be interested in our first available lab report:

Independent Lab Report

I've had to sit on it a while, but it is squeaky clean no Diethylene Glycol or Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines. Sorry for the long wait but we've been really busy. Additionally, it is notable that these tests were done independently and we didn't pay them, or ANY of our other labs, to do our testing. Therefore it is as bias free as possible.

Thanks and please feel free to comment or email any questions.

Sebastian

A really good, but very technical article. Even w/ a science background I couldn't completely follow it. How come there were no conclusions written about the results?

 

[HaploVoss]

A really good, but very technical article. Even w/ a science background I couldn't completely follow it. How come there were no conclusions written about the results?

It looks like a lab report. I don't think they were a review peer. The main summary and overview is at the very beginning of the report - I did just get done reading it and I will read it again to be sure. But it looks like a standard analysis report. -> 'Here are the results from the tests we performed.'

Take care,
- Hap

 

[ladyraj]

Based on Sebastion's report...does anybody know where I can purchase pharmacy/lab grade Pyridine???

 

[ladyraj]

A really good, but very technical article. Even w/ a science background I couldn't completely follow it. How come there were no conclusions written about the results?

After a quick look thru...and if one ignores the possible cart influence, the mixed assays of unknown but guesstimated chemicals, the poorly defined compounds, etc one is left to research the chem names.

Interestingly, butylamine is a chemical that does not react with metals well and are corrosive to aluminum and copper. This gives a whole new meaning to what is happening to our atomizers.

Hexadecanoic acid, more commonly known as Palmitic acid, is a skin, eye, and respiratory irritant.

Tetra-ethylene Glycol (reminiscent of ethylene and diethylene glycol) could be a point of contention:

Other Applications

Hmmmm! More questions are raised than answered it seems!8-o

 

[Beanie]

Im just curious how he got the lab testing done without paying for it?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Thought some might be interested in our first available lab report:

Independent Lab Report

I've had to sit on it a while, but it is squeaky clean no Diethylene Glycol or Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines. Sorry for the long wait but we've been really busy. Additionally, it is notable that these tests were done independently and we didn't pay them, or ANY of our other labs, to do our testing. Therefore it is as bias free as possible.

Thanks and please feel free to comment or email any questions.

Sebastian

Sebastian --Excellent report. The key to remember with these reports is that there does not have to be a reading of zero with many substances---rather the question raised is, "is it within an acceptable level" to be safe. That is the standard.


Sun

 

[forcedfuel50]

Thought some might be interested in our first available lab report:

Independent Lab Report

I've had to sit on it a while, but it is squeaky clean no Diethylene Glycol or Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines. Sorry for the long wait but we've been really busy. Additionally, it is notable that these tests were done independently and we didn't pay them, or ANY of our other labs, to do our testing. Therefore it is as bias free as possible.

Thanks and please feel free to comment or email any questions.

Sebastian

Am i missing something, that report says it was done for a Dwain Daniel of the Parker Research Institute? Where did you find that report?

 

[MrKai]

...chiropractors have some skin in the game we don't know about?

-K

 

[HaploVoss]

Am i missing something, that report says it was done for a Dwain Daniel of the Parker Research Institute? Where did you find that report?

He probably 'found it' in his mailbox. Dwain parker is most likely a Dr. of whatever who heads the lab. The head of the dept. is who has to request the analysis, which is requested by the customer.

EDIT: What I mean is - more specifically - you are not going to get a lab analysis back from a lab that says 'for John Doe' as it would leave a question as to who actually ordered the lab work to be done from within the organization.

You will find the request information on the cover sheet / folder that the customer received the report in.

Take care,
- Hap

 

[Sebastian]

Ladyraj,
First to address your statements: Knowing whether or not ingredients are within ‘acceptable’ ranges, which is suggested by Sun Vaporer, is of importance here. Too much of anything can kill somebody.

HAP,
You are correct, this is primarily a lab report of findings. not speculations or reviews of the findings etc. It is JUST the facts of the findings. Thanks for stating that, it isn’t misleading and others on this thread will likely draw their own conclusions and say I’m being sneaky etc. Don’t look into that rubbish. These facts are exactly that, FACTS. The reviews are currently being conducted, but all things point in the right direction for Liberty Stix and our pre-filled American formula cartridge.

Beanie,
How did I get it without paying? Well that’s easy, go back and look through my other posts regarding testing. I offered the testing opportunity to other suppliers, and, par for the course (I was ridiculed and discredited as a company that doesn’t know what they are doing). Unfortunately for the companies that did NOT take them up on the offer, the free testing was a one time deal. It is VERY expensive to get this testing done at this juncture of the game.

As a side note, I believe Liberty Stix is the only company, to my knowledge, that is able to afford and actually has a substantial product liability insurance policy for my product, BECAUSE of the fact that we do things the right way. If anyone knows of any other company that DOES have some type of protection for their customers, please do tell me that company, as I am not looking to get grilled on here for that claim.

ForcedFuel,
I didn’t find it anywhere. It is a report based on the LIBERTY STIX product. They even have pictures of the testing being done on our product…. It says Liberty RIGHT there on the unit. Dr. Dwain Daniel will be doing a report on the findings and his report should be published by Feb or March.

MrKai,
Your comment was not necessary, and belongs somewhere else, but I will address that as well. In fact, if you have even the most elementary knowledge of the chiropractic practice you would know that much of it is based on the spine, vertebrae and spinal column disks. Smoking, according to many chiropractic studies, tends to take those spongy discs (that separate your vertebrae and keep your back straight) and make them very fibrous by robbing them of their sponge like properties. This is just what I’ve heard, but my chiropractor has worked on the last 5 US presidents, so I would say he is an authority on the issue.

Also, this is getting old. By that I mean that when someone posts something, try not to be so criticial and berate them. You ALL don’t know everything. You likely haven’t been in this business as long as me, and even if you are smarter than me, you haven’t spent tens and tens of thousands of dollars in order to gain the knowledge through the legal and engineering means that I have. So if you are going to insult and troll, please I would kindly ask that you save it and move on. However, if you have something of substance or merit, please do ask. This isn't directed into anyone in particular, but I can see where it is heading, where it always heads, and I am really not up for it. I was just passing on the report, a legit report with facts.

Thanks and happy vaping.

 

[ladyraj]

Hey Sebastion. I'm sorry if I came across negatively all I meant to point out was: just as with the FDA report the trace findings and scary sounding chemicals can, and probably will, be twisted out of context. As a smoker, I've already dealt with the fact that I'm inhaling chemicals and assuming a certain level of risk. Heck...living in the city and inhaling "acceptable" air pollution could be perceived as a risky endeavor! I've never tried your product but after your description...I just might!

 

[Sebastian]

Ladyraj,

I didn't consider your comments mean spirited, but generally, and espescially on this forum, a person can divulge information and it gets thrown in their face in a most impolite way. I was just trying to curtail any rude emails regarding the report and not leaving things up to conjecture or "know it all" types.

If consuming scary sounding chemicals in trace amounts was THAT bad, we'd be hard pressed to get a drink of water....after all, chlorine (found in most all drinking water) is not only a poisonous chemical, but one used as a weapon in WW2

 

[kinabaloo]

If consuming scary sounding chemicals in trace amounts was THAT bad, we'd be hard pressed to get a drink of water....after all, chlorine (found in most all drinking water) is not only a poisonous chemical, but one used as a weapon in WW2

The chlorine is there to help prevent microbial infestation during transportation through the pipe system. But it should be removed on arrival before consumption; but almost never is. Result is the killing off of the good bacteria in our gut leading to a myriad of health problems; which is good business for some.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Unfortunately, it appears this anaysis is of the FDA report with differing opinions (and other study findings) of the presented conclusions versus a truly independent lab analysis of carts and simulated vaping. Am I misreading the report?

This is considered a historical analysis to point out the flaws in the FDA report and has far less power than an independent analysis of product that would rival the FDA's lab report.

IMHO - You are correct that this is not an independent lab analysis of carts and simulated vaping... but this is the peer review of the FDA study that should have been done prior to FDA releasing their study on the public.

Exponent