Njoy response to FDA

[LaceyUnderall]

Heck SE didnt even respond to it. NOT GOOD it shows they have something to hide.

You could certainly ask as it appears one of their lawyers is a member here...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...fda-daily-docket-sheet-update.html#post440786

post #366.

 

[The Wiz]

Just curious.....And have not read all the threads today...But has SE come out of hiding yet and made a statement? I do give njoy credit for at least ponying up!The Wiz!

 

[The Wiz]

You could certainly ask as it appears one of their lawyers is a member here...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...fda-daily-docket-sheet-update.html#post440786

post #366.

Thanks Lacey......I guess that answered my question.The Wiz!

 

[C6Silver]

One of the problems with health issue claims here is that none are likely to be immediate. So any company saying that in the 1-3 years they have been in business there has been no known health complaint, doesn't hold much water. If the FDA were correct, and I am not saying they are, with regards to any cancer causing agents, and I'd have to believe that it would take many many years (10, 20, 30+) before you'd see something come out. Even then if the person was a long-term smoker of analogs people would argue the cancer came from that and not the juice they consumed when they quit.

There does need to be broader and more intense testing but specific long-term impacts of e-smoking aren't likely to be discovered for a VERY long time.

 

[jackolantern]

What is kind of sad is that any research done on behalf of a company that involves their own products is unlikely to carry any weight with the FDA and could easily be spun to not carry any weight with the general public. We are used to seeing companies do their "own research" on their products (some of the most infamous are the tobacco industry's research about the time the risks became public knowledge. They still claimed through their research that tobacco was harmless). The FDA will have no interest in their research, even if conducted by a third-party, no matter how spot-on their methods are.

This whole thing is utterly ridiculous. There just needs to be regulations on who can make e-liquid. I don't agree with people making it in their kitchen and then selling it online. They have next to no scientific equipment, and possibly no chemistry training. The liquids tested likely had carcinogens in them because they did a full single-pass extraction from the tobacco, meaning that other chemicals were bound to be pulled over as well. On the other hand, if a large manufacturing industry was to be created, they could use pure, powder nicotine to create the liquid, and it would have nothing else in it (crystal nicotine is strictly regulated for public procurement because it can be used in poisonings).

 

[LaceyUnderall]

What is kind of sad is that any research done on behalf of a company that involves their own products is unlikely to carry any weight with the FDA and could easily be spun to not carry any weight with the general public. We are used to seeing companies do their "own research" on their products (some of the most infamous are the tobacco industry's research about the time the risks became public knowledge. They still claimed through their research that tobacco was harmless). The FDA will have no interest in their research, even if conducted by a third-party, no matter how spot-on their methods are.

But what we also tend to forget is that all products that are FDA approved, their testing and trials are funded by the company who want their product approved.

 

[Vapinginmyboots]

Quick question: Does anyone know if ruyan direct or TW has responded or had testing before? Id like to know because Ive got a significant stock of both.

 

[STILLSMOK9]

Quick question: Does anyone know if ruyan direct or TW has responded or had testing before? Id like to know because Ive got a significant stock of both.

Ruyan 's juice comes straight from Dekang!!

Wayne told me that yesterday.

 

[Angela]

Quick question: Does anyone know if ruyan direct or TW has responded or had testing before? Id like to know because Ive got a significant stock of both.

Both companies have had tests done on their liquid and made the results public

 

[Vapinginmyboots]

Ruyan 's juice comes straight from Dekang!!

Wayne told me that yesterday.

Both companies have had tests done on their liquid and made the results public

Thank you for the quick responses! It puts my mind at ease, and I am greatfull this great community continously amazes me to no end

 

[BullyBoy]

all E-cig vendors should sue for slander lol

Really? On behalf of whom? The Chinese? Hmm, they seem to like to dump their extra lead inventories on us in the form of children's toys. Yeah, that'll work.

 

[jackolantern]

But what we also tend to forget is that all products that are FDA approved, their testing and trials are funded by the company who want their product approved.

True, but then that is the FDA's research. They just don't like research that is done without their involvement, like NJoy's own third-party research.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with their research. Just that the FDA probably doesn't care about it.

 

[katink]

@ Vapinginmyboots and others answering him: please don't mix up Ruyan with Ruyan-direct. The companies are different; most-sold liquid by Ruyan-Direct is different. Please keep this clear in posts, else somewhere down the line it is certain to cause misinformation (someone presenting DeKang's liquid-reports as Ruyan's liquid-reports or v.v., for instance; or the Ruyan NZ-studies as Direct-Ruyan studies - if that happens toward an important organisation or media, it can have really bad repercussions for us, we will be accused of lying...)

 

[DaBrat]

I would like to see the big vendors, Ruyan, Smoking Everywhere, Smoke 51 etc.... File a class action suit for defamation against the FDA once test prove the benefits of vaping versus analogs NOT an NRT! The test were used based on the nicotrol inhaler not an analog. The statement that e-cigs are as dangerous or more dangerous than analogs is a direct lie for all intents and purposes and will cut into these companies profit margins. The only thing is it does is allow the FDA to put on big stomping boots in the meantime. This data will need to be backed up with testing of course. The New Zealand test is one place to start.

Cmon Big manufacturers...... lets us see you fight!!!

 

[DaBrat]

- if that happens toward an important organisation or media, it can have really bad repercussions for us, we will be accused of lying...)

Seems the FDA did or is it just stretching the truth when they do it?

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Regarding this whole "they used Nicotrol, not a cigarette, what the hell!?" argument:

The FDA is currently the defendant in a suit in which they allege that the electronic cigarette is a drug/device combination and is therefore to be regulated the same way that an NRT is. The plaintiffs (Smoking Everywhere and NJoy) argue that the electronic cigarette is a tobacco product. If the FDA were to do a lab test using a cigarette as the control, they would be conceding the fact that the electronic cigarette is a tobacco device (apples to apples). Instead, consistent with their formal position, they used the most similar approved NRT, the Nicotrol inhaler.

Does that clear up the confusion?

 

[LaceyUnderall]

True, but then that is the FDA's research. They just don't like research that is done without their involvement, like NJoy's own third-party research.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with their research. Just that the FDA probably doesn't care about it.

Jack - I think I may be misreading you. Are you saying that the FDA is paid by the manufacturers to do testing on the product for approval in their own FDA labs?

If so, then we should all be referring back to Feb of 2008 (I think) when even the FDA scientists were screaming that the FDA was corrupt.

There is definitely a pattern of conflict of interest then if this is true.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Regarding this whole "they used Nicotrol, not a cigarette, what the hell!?" argument:

The FDA is currently the defendant in a suit in which they allege that the electronic cigarette is a drug/device combination and is therefore to be regulated the same way that an NRT is. The plaintiffs (Smoking Everywhere and NJoy) argue that the electronic cigarette is a tobacco product. If the FDA were to do a lab test using a cigarette as the control, they would be conceding the fact that the electronic cigarette is a tobacco device (apples to apples). Instead, consistent with their formal position, they used the most similar approved NRT, the Nicotrol inhaler.

Does that clear up the confusion?

It's just funny/shame/odd/ridiculous that they didn't test the NRT control along with the ecigs.

EDIT: http://www.njoythefreedom.com/index.php

Check out the header in their website. They will have a scientific response available on Wednesday, July 29th.

 

[sherid]

One of the problems with health issue claims here is that none are likely to be immediate. So any company saying that in the 1-3 years they have been in business there has been no known health complaint, doesn't hold much water. If the FDA were correct, and I am not saying they are, with regards to any cancer causing agents, and I'd have to believe that it would take many many years (10, 20, 30+) before you'd see something come out. Even then if the person was a long-term smoker of analogs people would argue the cancer came from that and not the juice they consumed when they quit.

There does need to be broader and more intense testing but specific long-term impacts of e-smoking aren't likely to be discovered for a VERY long time.

It only took a few months for the first reported suicide from Chantix. It's still on the market with a black box warning. Still, doctors prescribe it even though Chanticide has grown markedly since its first victims.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Absolutely true Lacey, but beside my point.