The EVOlution cartridges are refillable. I've been testing that out this morning.
Drop two to three drops of liquid in the mouth of the cartridge. Let it soak in a little bit and smoke away. Works great. I've got TW banana in mine at the moment.
Intellicig EVOlution - The Next Generation.
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Drop two to three drops of liquid in the mouth of the cartridge. Let it soak in a little bit and smoke away. Works great. I've got TW banana in mine at the moment.
Badseed,
When you say in the mouth of the cartridge, do you mean into the hole for the vapour in the mouthpiece or somewhere else? Is it hit and miss? - ie liquid everywhere, or not? I haven't got one of these, but I am quite interested. How does it compare with the 901?
Thanks, SuziQ
When you say in the mouth of the cartridge, do you mean into the hole for the vapour in the mouthpiece or somewhere else? Is it hit and miss? - ie liquid everywhere, or not? I haven't got one of these, but I am quite interested. How does it compare with the 901?
Thanks, SuziQ
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His name was John, it was me.
We have invested heavily in the EVOlution and so far the feedback has been very good. How many suppliers take the trouble that we do to source better components when it's easy to just buy them in from China?
The more options we offer the more we have to lay out on stock and we can't keep prices within your range by ordering say 50 black batteries; our orders are for at least a thousand at a time so we can deliver affordable, quality items. There is demand for black but it is limited and we don't want to have hundreds of batteries sat in our warehouse for the next year, so we're going for the compact version for people to use in pubs, clubs etc where 4-6 hours battery life should be adequate.
I'll ask an honest question now, how much were you spending on tobacco cigarettes before you started using e-cigs? You make it sound like buying cartridges is more expensive but you can buy ours for as little as 29 pence each if you buy at Trade Prices, ie buy 350 for 101.50 GBP with just 99 pence postage. Even at a modest 5 fags per cartridge it works out at just 1.16 GBP for the equivalent of a 20 pack of cigs. We could supply them cheaper but we would have to ask our factory to employ 8 year olds to cut the cost.
Our cartridges are refillable but that is a personal choice. I've been testing liquids for some time and find that cartridge life is still limited before they start tasting like cack! We might supply empties eventually but our immediate priorities are to improve quality & safety. I don't understand what you mean by "A lot less faffing about and another income stream!"
The future looks bright for liquids but it is a matter of sourcing the correct product. As for safety, if you use liquid then surely you've done some research into what's in it? One well know supplier informs visitors to his website that it has been tested and even has a link to a lab report, have you read the report? When you ask if ours has been tested I can answer yes, does that reassure you? Well it's not enough for us and we will not be satisfied until we can give it an unequivocal seal of approval regarding safety. We are dealing with toxic substances and we are duty bound, both legally & morally, to deliver a safe product. Yes we can say it's safer than cigarettes, but we want to say yes it's safe. Quality and safety doesn't come cheap but we still compete well with our prices, something you should recognise being a book-keeper
Cheers.
John.
I mean into the mouthpiece. Unlike the normal super mini it seems that the cartridge is a single unit rather than a separate cartridge and mouthpiece. There seems to be what looks like a piece of gauze in the cartridge above where the liquid is that the atomiser bridge connects to (see attached blurry photo), so presumably when I drip liquid in that soaks it up. I've had no problems with getting liquid everywhere or in my mouth or anything.
Attachments
Thanks Badseed, I understand now I have seen a pic. I haven't been up long and obviously, still a bit fuzzy brained.
SuziQ
SuziQ
Take the cartridge off the vapouriser and look inside it. You will see that there is a plastic insert that fits snugly inside the cartridge and it contains the 'wool' that holds the liquid. The insert is not quite a full circle, there is a gap at one side so that the vapour can flow past it to your mouth. When dropping the liquid tilt the cart at a slight angle so that the cut out is is uppermost, that way any drops that hit the side instead of the 'wool' will not run straight to the outlet hole and into your mouth - I've done it and although it's not pleasant it doesn't tatse as good as chocolate!
I either put the plug back in or put it back on the vapouriser (I'm lucky I have a good supply!) and stand it up with the mouth hole uppermost for at least half an hour before I use it. I find it seems to absorb better, lasts longer and is less likely to give you a gobfull!!
You can take the inserts out of the cartridge and leave them to soak if you prefer, a fine needle pushed through the mouth hole will push the insert out. Be careful not to break off the thin piece of plastic on the bottom of the insert as it is a spacer to keep the insert the right distance form the vapouriser.
My current favourites are Apple & Cherry and I sometimes add a little Pepermint flavouring which gives them a nice fresh flavour.
Cheers.
John.
Nice picture BadSeed, can I 'borrow' it? How's the EVO going? We're finding that they seem to get better after a while, a bit like running in a car engine!
Cheers.
John.
Course you can.
The EVO's going great so far. I've posted a review in the reviews section.
Thanks for the reply about topping off. I think I want one!
I have spent a small fortune on various minis (901) and classic penstyles, not to mention liquid, so might have to wait...this probably means a day or so, lol
I have spent a small fortune on various minis (901) and classic penstyles, not to mention liquid, so might have to wait...this probably means a day or so, lol
Here's a size comparison. From left to right we've got the pen, DSE901 and the EVOlution.
Do you suggest sources for research to your customers? Can you help us with our research and tell us what is in your cartridges?
I've read the Wicked report. It has reassured me that it has been double checked for suitability to inhale and is not contaminated with tainted ingredients. At least for the test sample. You seem to be saying you have the same tests, could you show us the report please?
What process will you implement to ensure you can give your juice an 'unequivocal seal of approval'?
You can say it's 'safer than cigarettes'? Can you prove that?
Thanks.
I have spoken to and communicated via email with countless customers and potential customers. I tell them all the same, research as much as you can and make your own judgement. The report on HealthNZ offers some factual evidence to challenge the critics but there is no 100% guarantee. I advise anyone who is in doubt not to use e-cigs, the same goes for children, pregnant women, persons with heart conditions and/or high blood pressure etc. It is always best to consult your doctor or physician before using any nicotine replacement product.
Do any of the tobacco product manufacturers offer such advice and information voluntarily? They have to put warnings on their packets because of government laws. Does anyone ever ask the tobacconist about the safety of cigarettes?
Propylene Glycol, Methyl Cyclopentenolone, 2-Octanol, 2-Acetyl Pyrrole, 3,4-Dihydro Coumarin and Palmitic acid are among the chemicals that give us cause for concern and our research is ongoing. Our test reports are also ongoing and will determine the products we will develop in the future. Eliminating the above chemicals is a good target initially but obviously I'm not going to tell you what our plans are as it is commercially sensitive information. However, our intentions are and will remain to offer safe products. This doesn't happen overnight and it costs a great deal of money, so much that the majority of sellers will carry on selling whatever they can get hold of as they do not have the financial backing to afford major investment in research and development.
The statement 'we can say it's safer than cigarettes' was meant to highlight the fact that this is generally accepted by the majority of sellers (and e-smokers) on the basis of independent tests that have been published in the public domain. Although the evidence does seem to back this up we want to be sure. If you would like to challenge the premise that it is safer than tobacco cigarettes then you would have to do so through established legal procedures. If you're just trying to trip me up that's okay.
You say you're reassured by the Wicked report which is fine (I deliberately avoided naming the website or supplier in my original post as it would have been commercially unethical and this is not about running someone's products down but about promoting healthy debate which hopefully will influence change to benefit us all). All that indicates is that you're prepared to take the risk, along with many others (me included), of using products that contain the above chemicals and which the testers expressed some concern about. Those chemicals will probably be found in virtually all of the liquids and cartridges coming out of China, including our cartridges, but as smokers we make the personal decision to use them as we believe them to be a safer alternative to tobacco products. One of the problems with Chinese products is quality control and it has been known for some 'harmless' chemicals to be substituted with dangerous ones, eg Diethylene Glycol. We will continue to invest and do our best to produce safe products. Even government agencies get it wrong when it comes to safety, sometimes with horrific consequences as in the use of Thalidomide in the late 1950s. We don't want anything remotely like that to happen again.
Cheers.
John.
Thanks for your reply.
I'll just mention this:
"The statement 'we can say it's safer than cigarettes' was meant to highlight the fact that this is generally accepted by the majority of sellers (and e-smokers) on the basis of independent tests that have been published in the public domain. Although the evidence does seem to back this up we want to be sure. If you would like to challenge the premise that it is safer than tobacco cigarettes then you would have to do so through established legal procedures. If you're just trying to trip me up that's okay."
I'm not trying to trip you up, I am genuinely interested in any claims and proof of safety. Ruyan have had their eliquid tested as has Pillbox. You're making safety claims but don't have any assurances, tests, reports, trials or evidence that your eliquid is safer than smoking. Opinion may or may not be that esmoking is safer but that isn't very scientific and won't hold water when it comes to proving it to regulators and informed consumers.
I don't have to use legal procedures to say that esmoking with your eliquid isn't proven safer than smoking.
Whatever, good luck with it.
I'll just mention this:
"The statement 'we can say it's safer than cigarettes' was meant to highlight the fact that this is generally accepted by the majority of sellers (and e-smokers) on the basis of independent tests that have been published in the public domain. Although the evidence does seem to back this up we want to be sure. If you would like to challenge the premise that it is safer than tobacco cigarettes then you would have to do so through established legal procedures. If you're just trying to trip me up that's okay."
I'm not trying to trip you up, I am genuinely interested in any claims and proof of safety. Ruyan have had their eliquid tested as has Pillbox. You're making safety claims but don't have any assurances, tests, reports, trials or evidence that your eliquid is safer than smoking. Opinion may or may not be that esmoking is safer but that isn't very scientific and won't hold water when it comes to proving it to regulators and informed consumers.
I don't have to use legal procedures to say that esmoking with your eliquid isn't proven safer than smoking.
Whatever, good luck with it.
My word, you do start early in the day! My gratitude for the time taken to reply to my lengthy post. So sorry about the name mixup - either my ears are lousy or my memory; probably the latter. I do recall vividly your helpfulness and enthusiasm which was terrific.
You have confirmed my impression that you've spent a lot of effort (and no doubt money) to develop as good a product as possible which is reassuring and all to the good. I'm mildly disappointed that the black EVO will have a smaller battery but quite understand your reasoning about stock-holding etc. I agree that your prices are very competitive in this marketplace and I'd not want that to change. Will still look out for the new black ones and likely purchase when they become available. Hopefully we'll hear about it here first!
I'm reassured that your cartridges can be refilled and thanks to both yourself and BadSeed for the info and picture. As for the "Faffing about/another income stream", went back and looked again and it's a lousy sentence isn't it? Could do better - so let's try again. I was asking about you selling empty cartridges and they were the proposed additional income stream. The "faffing about" was my notion of washing out the 'wool' to reuse prefilled carts in the absence of empties being available to buy as such. If you do start selling them and I get a black EVO, I'm sure I would be in the market for these too.
You've raised the point of spend versus conventional cigarettes so I'll now bore you stupid with my calculations! I did do quite a bit of research before my first purchase including costings so here are the figures and assumptions I was working from:
Existing costs based on 30/day, mixture of Marlboro 100's + tobacco used in Belgam machine with premade tubes - approx £25 a week. That is based on a recent spend of £300 in Belgium which was intended to last about 90 days or 12-13 weeks. Total of 2700 cigs - god, doesn't that sound awful! Obviously that is less than UK standard full price would be but we're fortunate in living near enough to the ferries/Chunnel that 4 or 5 trips over a year are quite viable. We have a nice day out and buy other stuff in France as well. I'll miss that if be don't do it anymore!
Option 1) Estimated costs for e-cigs for same 90 day period, based on buying DSE901b starter kit, 6 spare atomisers, (worst case scenario that I kill one every 2 weeks) plus couple of spare batteries (possibly pessimistic guess) plus 450 prefilled cartridges (to yield 2700 cigs-worth based on 6 cigs per cart) sadly came out at £358. Admitted, that was based on largest part of the cost being cartridges - at £15 for 25 from one of your competitors, which certainly isn't the best price available.
Option 2) Recosted on identical hardware items, no prefilled carts, plus 50 empty refillable cartridges plus 180ml liquid (based on usage of 2ml/day, which seems generous) came to a rather more user-friendly total of £213.50.
That was where I got the notion that using prefilled cartridges could rack up pretty fast. I do accept that purchase of your EVO cartridges at today's price on your site would come in at a lot less than Option 1(although not less than Option 2) - but can I purchase at trade prices as a normal punter?
In addition, now I am no longer an e-cig 'virgin' and have actually been using some liquids and used the trial carts that came with the starter pack I have learnt a bit more. The generic 901 carts do, as others have said here, taste appalling. I would have to try yours before I could comment. I doubt I'm using as much as 2ml/day, and anyway am getting some of the high-strength 36mg liquid which I intend to dilute with glycerine (£1.25/100ml at my local pharmacy) so expect my cost to come down below the £200-mark for that mythical 90 days, even with spending out for extra flavourings if I decide to do that. I'm also hoping to take good care of my atomisers and batteries to let them last as long as poss.
As regards liquids, yes I did do my research first; including reading the famous lab report in full. I stand by my original observation that publishing a test report is a great selling point. I can also understand why Jason (Pillbox38/Totally Wicked) feels the costs for this justify his charging a premium price for his products and his customers are voting with their hard-earned. Even if some of them do grizzle!
I believe Kate agrees with me, and having read your reply to her am disappointed that you don't seem willing to post any test reports - you could edit exact quantities to protect 'commercially sensitive' info. A simple list would have answered her question of "What is in your cartridges?". All we seem to have learned that your liquid is sourced from China and not the US or Europe.
Oh, ****, this has turned into an epic again - sorry! Still hoping to be a customer, and congrats on having started a lively thread.
PS Love your Ronseal 'signature'
You have confirmed my impression that you've spent a lot of effort (and no doubt money) to develop as good a product as possible which is reassuring and all to the good. I'm mildly disappointed that the black EVO will have a smaller battery but quite understand your reasoning about stock-holding etc. I agree that your prices are very competitive in this marketplace and I'd not want that to change. Will still look out for the new black ones and likely purchase when they become available. Hopefully we'll hear about it here first!
I'm reassured that your cartridges can be refilled and thanks to both yourself and BadSeed for the info and picture. As for the "Faffing about/another income stream", went back and looked again and it's a lousy sentence isn't it?
Could do better - so let's try again. I was asking about you selling empty cartridges and they were the proposed additional income stream. The "faffing about" was my notion of washing out the 'wool' to reuse prefilled carts in the absence of empties being available to buy as such. If you do start selling them and I get a black EVO, I'm sure I would be in the market for these too.You've raised the point of spend versus conventional cigarettes so I'll now bore you stupid with my calculations!
I did do quite a bit of research before my first purchase including costings so here are the figures and assumptions I was working from:Existing costs based on 30/day, mixture of Marlboro 100's + tobacco used in Belgam machine with premade tubes - approx £25 a week. That is based on a recent spend of £300 in Belgium which was intended to last about 90 days or 12-13 weeks. Total of 2700 cigs - god, doesn't that sound awful! Obviously that is less than UK standard full price would be but we're fortunate in living near enough to the ferries/Chunnel that 4 or 5 trips over a year are quite viable. We have a nice day out and buy other stuff in France as well. I'll miss that if be don't do it anymore!
Option 1) Estimated costs for e-cigs for same 90 day period, based on buying DSE901b starter kit, 6 spare atomisers, (worst case scenario that I kill one every 2 weeks) plus couple of spare batteries (possibly pessimistic guess) plus 450 prefilled cartridges (to yield 2700 cigs-worth based on 6 cigs per cart) sadly came out at £358. Admitted, that was based on largest part of the cost being cartridges - at £15 for 25 from one of your competitors, which certainly isn't the best price available.
Option 2) Recosted on identical hardware items, no prefilled carts, plus 50 empty refillable cartridges plus 180ml liquid (based on usage of 2ml/day, which seems generous) came to a rather more user-friendly total of £213.50.
That was where I got the notion that using prefilled cartridges could rack up pretty fast. I do accept that purchase of your EVO cartridges at today's price on your site would come in at a lot less than Option 1(although not less than Option 2) - but can I purchase at trade prices as a normal punter?
In addition, now I am no longer an e-cig 'virgin' and have actually been using some liquids and used the trial carts that came with the starter pack I have learnt a bit more. The generic 901 carts do, as others have said here, taste appalling. I would have to try yours before I could comment. I doubt I'm using as much as 2ml/day, and anyway am getting some of the high-strength 36mg liquid which I intend to dilute with glycerine (£1.25/100ml at my local pharmacy) so expect my cost to come down below the £200-mark for that mythical 90 days, even with spending out for extra flavourings if I decide to do that. I'm also hoping to take good care of my atomisers and batteries to let them last as long as poss.
As regards liquids, yes I did do my research first; including reading the famous lab report in full. I stand by my original observation that publishing a test report is a great selling point. I can also understand why Jason (Pillbox38/Totally Wicked) feels the costs for this justify his charging a premium price for his products and his customers are voting with their hard-earned. Even if some of them do grizzle!
I believe Kate agrees with me, and having read your reply to her am disappointed that you don't seem willing to post any test reports - you could edit exact quantities to protect 'commercially sensitive' info. A simple list would have answered her question of "What is in your cartridges?". All we seem to have learned that your liquid is sourced from China and not the US or Europe.
Oh, ****, this has turned into an epic again - sorry! Still hoping to be a customer, and congrats on having started a lively thread.
PS Love your Ronseal 'signature'
Cheers Tetsab, just a quick reply. Our reports are near to completion for the carts we currently stock and I fully expect the results to be very similar to those already published as there is little difference between recipes, mainly the flavouring. The liquid we've been testing is from China, but testing is all we will be doing with it as yet; we have other manufacturers outside China that are more reliable and controllable.
Here's a costing for you. 450 cartridges (6 cigs per cart) @ 29 pence per cart = £130.50. 3 Atomisers (shouldn't need that many) @ £7.99 = £23.97. 2 batteries @ £7.99 = £15.98. EVO-1 (complete cig + 4 carts) £13.99. Mains charger £7.99 Total = £192.43 Sorry I forgot about shipping so add 99 pence!;-) Even at 5 cigs per cart the total is £218.53 and there's no hidden costs like a percentage of the price of going to Belgium.
Yes you can set up a Trade Account if you're buying in bulk, you can even go into business and smoke for free by selling the stuff.
Ask Expipeman and Badseed what the cartridges are like as they both have EVOs.
Here are the main ingredients of the carts:
[FONT=tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]PROPYLENE GLYCOL (Approx 50%) which is an odourless and colourless viscous liquid, Propylene glycol is commonly used in food, cosmetics and medicines and as a food colouring and flavouring. It is also present in regular cigarettes used to maintain a dampness in the tobacco.
GLYCEROL (Approx 8%) occurs naturally in the human body and is made during the hydrolysis of vegetable or animal fat or oil. It is used extensively in mouthwash, toothpaste, medecines and in nutritional products.
PURE WATER (Approx 18%) this needs little explanation!
VANILLA (<5%) Comes from the plant Vanilla planifolia which is used extensively in foods and scents.
MENTHOL ( Approx 4%) is used extensively in sweets, chewing gum, and many other common use products.
LINALOOL is a tertiary alcohol and has a pleasant, rose smelling scent. It is used largely as a raw material in the production of Vitamin E. It is used often as a fragrance and flavour. [/FONT]
Nicotine and Tobacco flavour make up most of the rest with negligible amounts of other chemicals which we will know exactly when the reports are finalised
Here endeth my short reply!;-)
John.
Here's a costing for you. 450 cartridges (6 cigs per cart) @ 29 pence per cart = £130.50. 3 Atomisers (shouldn't need that many) @ £7.99 = £23.97. 2 batteries @ £7.99 = £15.98. EVO-1 (complete cig + 4 carts) £13.99. Mains charger £7.99 Total = £192.43 Sorry I forgot about shipping so add 99 pence!;-) Even at 5 cigs per cart the total is £218.53 and there's no hidden costs like a percentage of the price of going to Belgium.
Yes you can set up a Trade Account if you're buying in bulk, you can even go into business and smoke for free by selling the stuff.
Ask Expipeman and Badseed what the cartridges are like as they both have EVOs.
Here are the main ingredients of the carts:
[FONT=tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]PROPYLENE GLYCOL (Approx 50%) which is an odourless and colourless viscous liquid, Propylene glycol is commonly used in food, cosmetics and medicines and as a food colouring and flavouring. It is also present in regular cigarettes used to maintain a dampness in the tobacco.
GLYCEROL (Approx 8%) occurs naturally in the human body and is made during the hydrolysis of vegetable or animal fat or oil. It is used extensively in mouthwash, toothpaste, medecines and in nutritional products.
PURE WATER (Approx 18%) this needs little explanation!
VANILLA (<5%) Comes from the plant Vanilla planifolia which is used extensively in foods and scents.
MENTHOL ( Approx 4%) is used extensively in sweets, chewing gum, and many other common use products.
LINALOOL is a tertiary alcohol and has a pleasant, rose smelling scent. It is used largely as a raw material in the production of Vitamin E. It is used often as a fragrance and flavour. [/FONT]
Nicotine and Tobacco flavour make up most of the rest with negligible amounts of other chemicals which we will know exactly when the reports are finalised
Here endeth my short reply!;-)
John.
The carts taste the same as the ones that came with my 901, i.e. not great, but as I say they are refillable with much nicer liquid.
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Well said Kate .... And i wouldnt trust anyone that comes on to the forum after such a short time being a member and trying to say his juice is the best going .... You and me and other long term members have seen this many times now ....Seems like some people just come on to this forum and try and make a quick few pounds the vanish ... And 2nd to that, their is NO WAY i would buy somthing from someone who looks like they spent the last 10yrs sleeping on a park bench ....Sorry Shining Wit ....But your profile pict looks like Dot Cotton..... Do you put that pict on your business cards lol lol.... Also we have seen other suppliers make the same claim about their juice and have been able to at least produce some sort of certifacate to back up at least some of their claims ...Not nesseserely all of them ...But at least its a start ... Im not being funny Shining Wit, but when did you start you juice testing and when will we see the results? .....Sorry mate ... I dont mean to sound harsh but we seen threads like this before.
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