Is it time for us to come together yet?

[ImperfectFuture]

What we need is a real course of action. I've seen a ton of posts/blogs in the last 24 hours talking about all standing together, but all the togetherness in the world isn't going to keep the government from running roughshod over us. The petitions on Whitehouse.gov are nothing more than a diversionary tactic; they let the people think they have a say, and then the government just ignores it and does whatever they want. All the letter writing and tweeting politicians hasn't stopped this from coming about. They don't care what we think or what's good for the public, they care about where the money comes from.

We need something serious that will make people stand up and take notice, like a million vaper march on Washington maybe. Something to expose the corruption and money trail behind this regulation crap and combat all the manufactured negative press that is convincing the general public to take all this lying down.

I'm ready to get (figuratively) militant on this issue.

*grabs torch and pitchfork*

You are wrong (as in certain cases)

Example in point, folks ignored the king county ban to vape where smoking prohibited, albeit circa 2010 law (when I thought I could quit the more traditional methods, and only vaguely heard about ecigs via blowing up). This closed out the largest metropolitan area in Washington State.

Recent legislation proposed by the state, we turned them back. We tweeted, we made you tube videos, we emailed politicians, we noted when they blocked certain mailer damons and used others. We left our differences at the door, we threatened (and intended to follow through), VOTING FOR THE OTHR GUY (note, this has the most bearing), WHETHER THE OTHER GUY WAS MORE REDNECK TEA PARTY OR LEFTIST SOCIALIST (take your pick, depending on where you stand), it didn't matter.

People need to leave the political fights at the door, even here. You can do it, it's the fatalist view (especially if you live in a gerrymandered state), that defeats us. Right now, the news is on "will we go to war with Russia?". But we can turn it around. So what if the petitions have already started? This never stopped the lawyers (which I suppose casaa has?). Plus, while casaa has posted their desires, do you think every vapor and their dog is reading this forum, or visited the casaa web site prior to the FDA regs going viral?

We can still be organized, and have the casaa machine working. Better yet, this gives casaa some folks to reach out to that don't even belong to this forum (there ARE other groups). Chill out, and let everyone fight their own way. It's how law suits eventually get the motivation to climb ti the supreme court (jmnsho).

 

[ImperfectFuture]

PS, on talking points, they sound like politicians (I don't mean to offend, but the GREATEST sway we had in WA was the personal stories of people quitting via ecigs).

That is why we can have both casaa AND personal fighting venues. The more voices, attention getting devices, the better.

 

[supermarket]

I would just like to point out that many juice vendors already put ingredients and warnings on their labels as well as use child proof caps (mtbakervapor.com is one of them). If those are concerns for you just use those vendors. We don't need the FDA to force it. Customers could also request this from their favorite vendors if they don't do it.

I agree 100%.

Regulation should not come in the form of federal or FDA policing. Regulation comes at the hands of CONSUMERS. We regulate with our WALLETS. If the majority of vapers want ingredient lists on their e-liquid bottles, well, we will GET THAT....because our wallets will show we want it.

We do not need a regulatory agency to police our vendors. It is the boiling frog syndrome. The FDA won't stop at ingredient lists....and I think we ALL know that.


It isn't just time for vapers to come together. It is time for AMERICANS , and citizens of the WORLD to come together. Our governments are nothing but oligarchies, and guess what? It doesn't benefit US.

E-cigs aren't the only things our government is trying to regulate, and take away from us. There is a battle going on for a harmless substance I can't mention here....the battle for guns and self-defense weapons, the battle to get the new common core nonsense out of our schools....the battle against republicans and democrats, who are both bought and paid for by the wealthy elite.


We need to come together and work hand in hand in PRESERVING this once great land, not just so we can VAPE in peace....but so we can LIVE in peace.

Vaping is just a small piece of the puzzle. It is time for us to awaken. Either we get our country back, or we lose it, once and for all.

 

[bcalvanese]

I would just like to point out that many juice vendors already put ingredients and warnings on their labels as well as use child proof caps (mtbakervapor.com is one of them). If those are concerns for you just use those vendors. We don't need the FDA to force it. Customers could also request this from their favorite vendors if they don't do it.

But it is the FDA's job to insure that all vendors list them. The consumer still has the choice of which ones they buy. If a vendor has nothing to hide, they will gladly list ingerdients and warnings on their products, and make them child safe.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Joining CASAA is a very good thing. They do a lot for us, but, they can do more with more support.

The one thing that our opponents have done very well is to change public opinion. Writing our individual story and sending it to the Opinions/Editorial (OP/ED) editor of our local paper puts it out to the people to see where we were, what we did, and the results. People like reading about success. Reach the people.

I have seen very few pro vaping stories mostly negative but even the few had headlines that force passertbys- people that will not read or listen to it but catch the headline see us negatively.
Joining casaa is great l just think it's going to take all of us to do more than send money to them to counteract a united front by the FDA; BT and general anti smoking public.

Don't take that the wrong way, casaa is great what I mean is I'm not going to wait for them to do something it's the small things like being respectful and courteous to us and others and showing a real kinship among each other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Frenchfry1942]

The regulations aren't finalized but we're supposed to trust an agency (FDA) that has already tried to destroy the industry in it's entirety. They just say, help us develop some "red tape" to tie the entire industry into, the courts won't let us do what we wanted....

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you" --- be afraid, be very afraid...

But, but we need regulations to keep vaping safe, some regulations are good.....

No one under 18 can buy vape equipment....yup, no one under 18 can buy analog cigarettes, that's worked well. So how many vapers actually started smoking after they turned 18. Force teens to smoke until they are old enough to vape....

Child-proof caps on everything....they are unnecessary and annoying, for users who don't ever have children in the house, they don't seal or open very well....

But we need e-liquid labeled so we know what's in it....read the label on a FDA approved label on a Twinkie and tell me you actually know what's in it.....

Chantix is FDA approved and recommended, it's so good and so safe, we should include a concealed carry permit with each prescription....

/Rant off ....

When we see poor labels, send a note via the "contact us" function on their website. I just found another one that had no listing of ingredients. I sent a note. The terms GRAS and USP should be front and center. When some FDA reviewer doesn't see that, it hurts. By having it, it makes good ammo.

 

[bcalvanese]

The regulations aren't finalized but we're supposed to trust an agency (FDA) that has already tried to destroy the industry in it's entirety. They just say, help us develop some "red tape" to tie the entire industry into, the courts won't let us do what we wanted....

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you" --- be afraid, be very afraid...

But, but we need regulations to keep vaping safe, some regulations are good.....

WE do need regulations. To keep everything safe.

No one under 18 can buy vape equipment....yup, no one under 18 can buy analog cigarettes, that's worked well. So how many vapers actually started smoking after they turned 18. Force teens to smoke until they are old enough to vape....

It is working. Alot less people smoke now then smoked when I started smoking (at 13).

Child-proof caps on everything....they are unnecessary and annoying, for users who don't ever have children in the house, they don't seal or open very well....

Should they make only the caps sold to people with children child proof?

What if a child got ahold of one of those ones?

But we need e-liquid labeled so we know what's in it....read the label on a FDA approved label on a Twinkie and tell me you actually know what's in it.....

You can look the ingredients up on anything if you are not sure what it is. but you should still have that as an option.

Chantix is FDA approved and recommended, it's so good and so safe, we should include a concealed carry permit with each prescription....

It lists all the ingredients and warnings. If someone wants to try it, it's their choice, but at least they have the option of knowing what their trying.

/Rant off ....

I only hope that you do not work in a job where you are responsible for anything to do with safety.

 

[Sirius]

Well..stories like this sure help anyway:
http://www.ngwinnett.com/1/post/201...sition-from-e-cigarette-user-to-retailer.html

 

[ScottP]

But it is the FDA's job to insure that all vendors list them. The consumer still has the choice of which ones they buy. If a vendor has nothing to hide, they will gladly list ingerdients and warnings on their products, and make them child safe.

It is categorically NOT the job of the FDA to ensure (it's not insure either) all vendors list ingredients. Even if they did, let's take a look at how good of a job they do with vitamins and supplements shall we.

Herbal Supplements Are Often Not What They Seem

Vitamins often do not contain the nutrients they claim

Between killer drugs like Chantix and Oxycontin, the allowable contaminates in food, and the mislabeled/misleading vitamins/supplements, the FDA already FAILS to protect consumers with their current regulations, yet you seem to think this new regulation will somehow be magically successful?

EDIT: Sometimes you don't WANT to know whats in it. Do you really want your favorite canned good to list mold, rat hair, or cockroach legs in the ingredients list?

EDIT2:

Defect Levels Handbook

• Corn: Sweet Corn, Canned - Insect larvae (corn ear worms, corn borers) 2 or more 3mm or longer larvae, cast skins, larval or cast skin fragments of corn ear worms or corn borer and the aggregate length of such larvae, cast skins, larval or cast skin fragments exceeds 12 mm in 24 pounds (24 No. 303 cans or equivalent)
  
• Greens, Canned - Average of 10% or more of leaves, by count or weight, showing mildew over 1/2" in diameter
  
• Peanut Butter - Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams AND Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams

And this list goes on and on.

EDIT3: Maybe you want to see this label on your products: "May contain traces of peanuts and human flesh"?!?!?!

EDIT4: I thought I should add that the above image is a hoax circa 2011. I only included it here as an example of sometimes not wanting to know what's really in your products.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Ok
So I'm a free market guy and part of me says if no one bought the stuff without labels the problem would sort itself out. The bad label sellers and no label sellers wouldn't get the business.
But we have a bigger problem and arguing about something that at its root is not a bad thing is not going to help us form a united front against the people that just plain want to take it away or tax it.
As for the childproof caps - I've jokingly said that when I can't get into a pill bottle I get my 6 year old to do it. But it's a joke. Breaks my heart to hear about a child drinking 10 mil bottle of this stuff because it smelled good- let's be real here. Should that be done YES. The labeling and childproof caps should be done.
Is it the governments job- I gotta say no it's not. Again I am a libertarian and want the government out of my life. Provide for the national defense and infrastructure and bigger off. Hell this country was born over a tea tax!!!! - a breakfast beverage!

So to the point at hand - it was passed Uncle Sam gonna make us do labels and childproof caps- arguing amongst each other does whAt?
This is the time for us to figure out what WE CAN do to stop zit where it's at. Looks like this bs thing has allot of avenues for things to gradually get tacked on- things that can actually make it more expensive and difficult to get these products

And before anyone asks no, I don't know what we should do. I've been through my share of personal hells and dealt with the government enough to no that they move as fast as molasses unless it means them getting money from you.
But it all starts somewhere and the only way it can is of the arguing over stuff that won't matter in the long run stops.
First things that come to mind is:
Start trying to educate the average joe.
People who don't cape know nothing about it. They hear that APVs can be used to vape all sorts of things. They hear that we are rude, obtrusive, the vape is just as bad or worse than cigs because it's a chemicals we know better because we vape. They are gonna hear what they want and the media is going to tell them what they want to hear and confirm what they think they know. So if we don't educate them who will?
Second.
Treat non-vapors with respect. for now I follow general smoking etiquette. I won't hang with the smokers but I won't vape inside unless the situation warrants it- empty coffee shop or place where I know the people around me aren't bothered. If one person is bothered by my vapong that is one person too many. When people are angry about something g they tell everyone they know as often as they can- this hurt out case when these people vote or possibly talk to their confessional rep. Or perhaps some of the people they talk to does.
Until this is all settled I think it incumbent on our own behalf for the longevity of us vapors to simply be respectful of others.
Till then vape on and vape often

 

[Rickajho]

Over 75 Facebook groups all bounced this petition tonight..sign and share it ..let's get everyone on the same page and tell our government what we want

{{Mytappitytapatalk}}

Yeah and that would be great if that petition actually had a coherent thought. If we are going to "come together" it would help if we had a point. The last thing that petition does is "tell our government what we want." It's an embarrassment.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Yeah and that would be great if that petition actually had a coherent thought. If we are going to "come together" it would help if we had a point. The last thing that petition does is "tell our government what we want." It's an embarrassment.

I'm waiting to see what casaa puts out. Pretty sure there's will be written by an actual attorney with spell check.
Still I Applaud the effort. Just won't sign something unless I know exactly what it means

 

[CKCalmer]

If there is anything in the works regarding a new or re-worded petition, I'd be happy to help with advice or proofreading. I've got a bit of skill with words, and so far in my life I've written far more formal technical treatises than fiction, though I'm working to change that.

 

[Burn_notice_fan_NY]

Well..stories like this sure help anyway:
http://www.ngwinnett.com/1/post/201...sition-from-e-cigarette-user-to-retailer.html

... I love this article. It's positive in nature AND for those into DIY, there are 23 recipes. The only thing I need to do now is figure out overall flavor percentage and where they get their flavors from. Some of those recipes sound absolutely delicious!

Edit: grabbed a screenshot

 

[Axismundixl]

Come together!

Here in Holland we organize coil days.

Invité a few vaping locals to exchange some knowledge over a cup of tea. Bring all your juices that are gathering dust a swap some with each other.
You're not alone, vape together!

 

[CKCalmer]

Come together!

Here in Holland we organize coil days.

Invité a few vaping locals to exchange some knowledge over a cup of tea. Bring all your juices that are gathering dust a swap some with each other.
You're not alone, vape together!

Now that's a brilliant idea!

Perhaps a Sunday brunch for 10 or 12 people, followed by some relaxing vaping, conversations about vaping, teaching/learning about coil building, showing off your newest mod or topper, e-juice trading, maybe even some e-juice DIYing.

"Vape days". That's the kind of thing I'd like to see catch on all over.

 

[Sirius]

I'm waiting to see what casaa puts out. Pretty sure there's will be written by an actual attorney with spell check.
Still I Applaud the effort. Just won't sign something unless I know exactly what it means

Yep -- so am I. That is today I gather?

 

[Sirius]

Now that's a brilliant idea!

Perhaps a Sunday brunch for 10 or 12 people, followed by some relaxing vaping, conversations about vaping, teaching/learning about coil building, showing off your newest mod or topper, e-juice trading, maybe even some e-juice DIYing.

"Vape days". That's the kind of thing I'd like to see catch on all over.

Some B&Ms have coil building tutorials but wouldn't it be nice to have Vape Day here in Georgia? Awesome idea.

 

[Fir3b1rd]

Some B&Ms have coil building tutorials but wouldn't it be nice to have Vape Day here in Georgia? Awesome idea.

We have a vape night here; every other Sunday a large group of us meetup at a Starbucks; it's the local B&M owners and other vapors and we cloud up the outside. The Starbucks is fairly centrally located in one of the major suburbs of the city in a strip mall by a Walmart so plenty of local see us.
We talked to the GM first to make sure it would be ok and sit outside on the deck. We take up almost the entire deck area and chill and vape and talk; help each other out with whatever may be going On with the gear and get to talk to some of the "civilians" to help educate them on the real story of vaping vs smoking.
Kinda neat since we are all from different backgrounds and what not.

 

[Sirius]

We have a vape night here; every other Sunday a large group of us meetup at a Starbucks; it's the local B&M owners and other vapors and we cloud up the outside. The Starbucks is fairly centrally located in one of the major suburbs of the city in a strip mall by a Walmart so plenty of local see us.
We talked to the GM first to make sure it would be ok and sit outside on the deck. We take up almost the entire deck area and chill and vape and talk; help each other out with whatever may be going On with the gear and get to talk to some of the "civilians" to help educate them on the real story of vaping vs smoking.
Kinda neat since we are all from different backgrounds and what not.

We just now got a B&M in my town. I really like that idea Tony! I'll see if some of the vapers want to do that.