Is there an industrial chemist in the house?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kurt

Quantum Vapyre
ECF Veteran
Sep 16, 2009
3,433
3,607
Philadelphia
Heehee...gotchya :p. Now if I could just finish my corruption of Dvap my evil plan will be complete. Bwaahahaha....:matrix:.......

:laugh: Roda Lacket = red pill in swedish. :2cool: (Oh, that's how you do it!)

And he was the one that presented all the right logic to pull me into the darkness...wattaya gonna do, he's the only one here that can make WTA...can your evil minions make Manchurian chemists? :blink: :blink: :blink: must make WTA...must make WTA :blink: :blink:
 

LowThudd

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 2, 2010
3,296
11
I am a GUY from L.A. not girl. lol
Granted I can only follow the chemistry that has been presented...barely follow it. But it is my understanding the the majority of the nicotine ingested from a cig is contained in the tar...tar which is created PRE-combustion. That is all I have ever read on the subject. AFAIK, tar cannot be created at point of combustion, only in the plant material which is being heated by the cherry. I think I am saying the same as those more knowledgable than me, but maybe in a simpler way. Matbe even Anon can grasp that. lol
 
Last edited:

TWISTED VICTOR

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Sep 14, 2009
3,461
67
61
The edge of Mayhem
...can your evil minions make Manchurian chemists? :blink: :blink: :blink: must make WTA...must make WTA :blink: :blink:

Naw, we don't manicure chemists on the Dark Side anymore. After Mrs. Dvap made Dvap stop hangin' out with us, we decided to turn over a new leaf. 'Baccy leaf, that is. That's Dvap's fault, too.

LowThudd, it's been verified by the aforementioned chemists that I truly know everything I previously assumed I knew about chemistry. Things like don't rub salt in gaping head wounds; the design of the pretty, red spiral ring on a electric stove is transferable to the hand; there's no honey in earwax..... Outside my area of expertise I'll refrain from answering :).
 

Kurt

Quantum Vapyre
ECF Veteran
Sep 16, 2009
3,433
3,607
Philadelphia
Granted I can only follow the chemistry that has been presented...barely follow it. But it is my understanding the the majority of the nicotine ingested from a cig is contained in the tar...tar which is created PRE-combustion. That is all I have ever read on the subject. AFAIK, tar cannot be created at point of combustion, only in the plant material which is being heated by the cherry. I think I am saying the same as those more knowledgable than me, but maybe in a simpler way. Matbe even Anon can grasp that. lol

One can vaporize nicotine, ans presumably the other alkaloids, from tobacco leaf by applying non-burning heat. Devices that do this with tobacco, as well as other beneficial plants :rolleyes:, are well known, and do not produce tar. Tar is the result of partial pyrolysis (burning) of plant material. I would imagine that if a carto was filled with PG-soaked tobacco, rather than filler soaked with e-juice, one could get some nicotine from it. I think of the whole smoke process this way:

Plant material is like tiny cells containing nic and other alks. The hot air from the cherry, up stream, is lifting the alks out of the cells. The cherry is turning the plant material into ashes and some tars. The ash particles fly over the region where the alks are in gas phase, and most hitch a ride on the ash particles, into the lungs, mouth, throat, etc. The ash does contain tars as well, which are the polymerized plant compounds from oxidizing heat...in contrast to non-oxidizing heat of the vaporizer, which just heats the alks into the gas phase to be inhaled. My guess is alkaloids from vaporizers are absorbed much like PVs with ejuice, mostly orally, but this is only a guess. The deep lung absorption of nic from smoking is because ash particles are able to get into the lungs...they are not liquid particles which more easily stick to the mouth and throat interior.

TV, I'm with ya, bro! I spent a lot of time figuring out how to chip colleagues to make them do my WTA bidding...then I popped a portion and the whole problem seemed to become less important. In fact, most problems seemed to become molehills. And my PV stash became a mountain...I suddenly have far more vaping stuff than I can ever consume. Simply remarkable...
 

VaporMadness

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 26, 2010
1,521
7
CA, USA
I think I'm turning to the DarkSide as well. Still gotta get me some genuine swedish product with a little more ooomph (and a little less carcinogens) but based on my experience with the Camel and Nordic Ice stuff, there is definitely a qualitative difference to getting my fix this way.

What is WTA an acronym for, "wonderful tobacco alkaloid"?
 

TWISTED VICTOR

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Sep 14, 2009
3,461
67
61
The edge of Mayhem
Hey VaporMadness, I got my "User Notes" back:

What is WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids)/Development and Testing

DVap's blog: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/403-its-not-just-nicotine.html
DVap's blog: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/423-whole-tobacco-alkaloid-e-liquid.html
DVap's blog (which category are you in?): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-i-think-i-know-about-vaping-vs-analogs.html
WTA is born: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-26.html#post711979
Vaporer Day #1: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-40.html#post721549
Vaporer Day #2: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-46.html#post724723
Vaporer Day #3: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-49.html#post727520
Vaporer's test comments: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-52.html#post729367
Vaporer's final test post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-52.html#post731258
Magic potion #2 is ready for testing: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-53.html#post732014
DVap's trashy leftovers from round #2: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-67.html#post744419
olderthandirt's test: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-82.html#post764352
TWISTED VICTOR's test: so are we getting it or are we not.. nicotine
TropicalBob's test: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-84.html#post767622
TropicalBob's rundown on the 48mg WTA: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-92.html#post788745

Happy reading :).
 
Last edited:

DVap

Nicotiana Alchemia
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 26, 2009
1,548
1,586
It's funny, Vic. I went ahead and clicked on the links in your above post, and it was a trip down memory lane. I honestly don't usually recall all that well the work and effort that went into WTA development, isolation, and the testing program, but after re-reading those posts after nearly a year, I clearly recall 1) how much work and effort it was, and 2) how ...... off my wife (fiancee at the time) was while putting up with the extended period of my obsessive geeking that resulted in the finished WTA used for the testing!

It's kind of a shame that today, nearly a year later, commercial WTA still is not a reality. But I'm finding myself pleased by the practical results of the whole ordeal. The notion had been that ecigs are missing "something", and there was a parallel, but not particularly associated notion among snus aficionados that there was something to the stuff. WTA tied it all together in and we finally understood (cue Darth Vader voice) "the power of the dark-side".

If I achieve nothing more, I am deeply gratified that I've been able to make what is perhaps a life-changing and life-saving contribution to others who might have fallen back to smoking after finding that vaping just wasn't enough for them. With or without my input, the snus threads are lively and purposeful in their own right.

It was a hell of a collaboration. I'm thankful to the testers and all who took an interest in the whole pursuit. I'm particularly thankful to Vaporer, whose constant enthusiasm kept me enthusiastic. Also to Exogenesis for his capable behind-the-scenes peer review of my work, and his willingness to listen to my theories, both well-founded and hair-brained. Vic for demonstrating (perhaps more than anybody) how a thoroughly effed-up individual (by his own reckoning) could come back to life without having to kill himself with cigarettes to do it. Bob for being Bob, a tireless crusader, and Kin for his perspective which, at times, ...... me off enough to make me determined to prove myself right and him wrong, but mostly ended up proving that we both had the right ideas. And anyone I've not mentioned but should have, I could probably find a good reason to be thankful to each of them. Oh yea, I'd better thank my wife, she really took one for the team.
 

BCB

Super Member
ECF Veteran
You couldn't have said it better DVap: "it was a hell of a collaboration." I read that thread like a detective novel--glued to every page! Wonderful reading, wonderful collaboration! Now I also use snus and because of it am not locked up (in either jail or an insane asylum)--and still haven't had a cigarette since May. There are many people who all of you have helped because of your willingness to work together and figure it out. Thanks so much from one of them!

(sorry we hijacked the thread--didn't mean to)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread