Is this the worst letter ever?

[smacuser]

True. I should have said that's what they were taught in our government tax farms, er, I mean schools.

 

[skoony]

I think it should be regulated...now don't beat me up. I feel as though sales to minors should be controlled, child proof caps mandated, and juice quality over-seen. Beyond that, if you want to vape a gummy bear, or a batch of cotton candy...have had it!!! Let's face it though, as a youngster, if you want to smoke cigs, you're gonna find a way. Let's address the concept of youth alcoholism. That's controlled, but they find a way, don't they?

caps? ok. ingredient labels?sure why not.juice quality?
whats does that mean? every ingredient in e-juice is already
made according to strict FDA standards. if they are not
using food grade or higher ingredients they are not by
definition making e-juice.what possible test could be
done to test ingredients that have already passed the
test? get the percentage of nicotine correct and mix.
the worst possible out come is bad tasting juice.
if ti tastes bad,don't use it. there are good juices that
that some people hate. how do you regulate that.
making juice is inherently safe precisely because the
ingredients used are GRAS already.to make juice so
bad to actually cause harm one would have to do it deliberately.
that is already against the law. there is no need for 'clean room'
manufacturing or plutonium grade testing and accounting.
there is absolutely no evidence indicating the potential,let alone an actual
manufacturing process to be harmful. where are all these basement
chemists adulterating our juice. the reason there are more and
more vendors entering the market today is because juice is
insanely easy and safe to make.

regards
mike

 

[chopdoc]

The fight against those who will lose a lot if they dont stop vaping is s serious daunting ordeal but people do need to understand, no matter how hard it seems, it is a fight that can be won regardless how many billions BT and BP throws at it. We actually have something they dont. Strength in numbers. But this advantage is worthless if its not employed. If the majority of us just took the time to write a form letter stating how old we are (as in not kids), that we use to smoke how much and we tried for how long to quit and nothing worked but vaping, and then send that form letter to every one of our elected officials both state and federal then we would be a force worthy of recognition.
It easy yet how many who are complaining about this actually taken the time to bother to do this? Every elected official that I can vote for both on the state and federal level has heard from me. Has yours? This is how you fight them. This is doing your part to help protect our right to vape.

 

[bluecat]

Not sure anything will happen with it. Obama is not up for re-election and it won't really cause any "waves" to be made for campaigning purposes for "most likely" Hillary, if she can survive the foundation scandal.

There will be high priced items such as illegal immigration and same-sex marriages that will be seen. Unfortunately we will all probably be inundated with pro Hillary and bash Hillary.

 

[Oliver]

What these folks fail to realize, or maybe not, is that today's kids are smarter than we were in regards to health.

My daughter told me her boyfriend and all of his buddies use 0 nic. They know nicotine is ugly and addictive.

I wonder if this is reflected at all in their "data"?

I've heard the same from an e-cig supplier in California (who themselves do not sell any e-liquid to minors). In their opinion, there are quite a few never-smokers using e-cigs for the "tricks and flavors" but none of them are using nicotine.

In answer to your question, no - it's not. Here are the exact questions the CDC asks on usage of E-Cigarettes in the National Youth Tobacco Survey. In each case answer "I" is one of 10 possible answers and is: "Electronic cigarettes, such as Ruyan or NJOY":

35. Which of the following tobacco products have you ever heard of? (You can CHOOSE ONE ANSWER or MORE THAN ONE ANSWER)

36. Which of the following tobacco products have you ever tried, even just one time? (You can CHOOSE ONE ANSWER or MORE THAN ONE ANSWER)

37. In the past 30 days, which of the following products have you used on at least one day? (You can CHOOSE ONE ANSWER or MORE THAN ONE ANSWER)

Here's the link (pdf) to the current NYTS questionnaire.

I strongly suggest you look at what they are asking in regards to actual smoked cigarettes, and tell me whether they should be presenting the data as equivalent. There are 14 questions specifically asking about cigarettes.

 

[Oliver]

Not sure anything will happen with it. Obama is not up for re-election and it won't really cause any "waves" to be made for campaigning purposes for "most likely" Hillary, if she can survive the foundation scandal.

I'm hearing chatter that the Obama administration is keen to push this through before the end of his administration. I'm also hearing chatter that deeming is currently on the desk of HHS. If this is true, we could have deeming signed off as early as first quarter next year.

 

[kaahn]

Anyone else find it funny that out of that whole letter there was not one actually fact about hazards to health to any user considering all those "health care professionals" that have sign this crap? All they have stated was the obvious increase in usage. No opposing facts about how much teen smoking has dropped which would explain the increase in teens vaping. The way I see it is this letter is nothing but gibberish and they have no leg to stand on but to attack usage increases. Hilarious how they grub after money. Remember its not money that is the root of all evil but its the love thereof.

I found it funny to the part where they clumped the tobacco companies into the letter saying they are targeting kids with the "next generation of tobacco products". Who wrote this letter...a freaking three year old! And these are our medical physicians folks!

 

[bluecat]

I'm hearing chatter that the Obama administration is keen to push this through before the end of his administration. I'm also hearing chatter that deeming is currently on the desk of HHS. If this is true, we could have deeming signed off as early as first quarter next year.

Now that is scary. As he being a former(?) smoker, I would have thought he would try take a different path.

Then again.. who the heck knows. Once a month I send an email to my house and senate reps.

Maybe one day our elected officials will realize you can't control every aspect of a citizen's life. I won't even get into the hypocrisy of them.

 

[ENAUD]

Reading the survey, a few thoughts came to mind. They have considered e-cigs a tobacco product from the get-go. By presenting a survey to the youth with e-cigs already in the body of questioning as a tobacco product, they have insured that many youth would not question whether e-cigs are a tobacco product or not.

 

[Oliver]

Reading the survey, a few thoughts came to mind. They have considered e-cigs a tobacco product from the get-go. By presenting a survey to the youth with e-cigs already in the body of questioning as a tobacco product, they have insured that many youth would not question whether e-cigs are a tobacco product or not.

Yes, well - in fact the CDC may be underestimating the usage of vaping products on the back of the way they are phrasing the questions. In addition to calling them tobacco products, where teens might consider them to be no such thing - "Ruyan"??? Ruyan never even sold in the US!

 

[chopdoc]

Reading the survey, a few thoughts came to mind. They have considered e-cigs a tobacco product from the get-go. By presenting a survey to the youth with e-cigs already in the body of questioning as a tobacco product, they have insured that many youth would not question whether e-cigs are a tobacco product or not.

What they actually do is hire a survey company and tell them the results they want and then this company will word the questions in such a way that will guarantee those results.

 

[skoony]

I've heard the same from an e-cig supplier in California (who themselves do not sell any e-liquid to minors). In their opinion, there are quite a few never-smokers using e-cigs for the "tricks and flavors" but none of them are using nicotine.

there was post here where some had linked to study indicating the percentage
of e-cig users that had never smoked. it was 1% or less than the total.
of these 99% did not use nicotine.i do not recall if it was broken down
by age.
regards
mike

 

[NOVA jon]

The way I see it and to put into simple terms, parents need to step up and do their job and stop demanding the government do it for them!!

 

[DC2]

The fight against those who will lose a lot if they dont stop vaping is s serious daunting ordeal but people do need to understand, no matter how hard it seems, it is a fight that can be won regardless how many billions BT and BP throws at it. We actually have something they dont. Strength in numbers. But this advantage is worthless if its not employed. If the majority of us just took the time to write a form letter stating how old we are (as in not kids), that we use to smoke how much and we tried for how long to quit and nothing worked but vaping, and then send that form letter to every one of our elected officials both state and federal then we would be a force worthy of recognition.
It easy yet how many who are complaining about this actually taken the time to bother to do this? Every elected official that I can vote for both on the state and federal level has heard from me. Has yours? This is how you fight them. This is doing your part to help protect our right to vape.

<standing ovation>

 

[AndriaD]

What I'd like to know is where are all these adults that don't like awesome flavors? The fact that good flavors are used by manufacturers and are clearly (to the people who write that letter) only intended to get kids hooked and no other reason, implies that we as grown folk, don't like awesome flavors.

These people need to get a ****ing life. Pretty much anything that goes in your mouth comes in flavors. So candy people need to stop, they're just getting kids hooked on candy and getting them fat. Mouthwash people need to stop, because that delicious mint flavor is a gateway to alcoholism clearly. The whole junk food industry can go. The whole food industry has to go then as well. I mean how dare they put all those delicious spices on my steak? Don't they know that the delicious hickory sauce on there is getting kids hooked on red meat??? Soon they'll not be able to control themselves and will get heart disease! And don't get me started on actual flavored tobacco. It's okay for real tobacco to have peach and blueberry and menthol flavors but not e-cigs? How does that make sense? What about booze? Which does as much damage to people as tobacco. Last time I was in the liquor store there wasn't just the one shelf of plain unflavored alcohol for adults. THERE WAS AN ENTIRE ****ING STORE FULL OF DIFFERENT ****ING FLAVORS FOR EVERY TYPE OF BOOZE YOU CAN THINK OF! How dare they!!! If we're targeting kids with flavors then what the **** do they call what those *******s are doing???

I mean god forbid anyone actually parents their ****ing disgusting children and educates them about making healthy choices, or at least trying to anyways. I mean few of us would be here if we always made the healthy choice. But we can't even convince these mindless drone parents to vaccinate the little ****ing disease bags, how can we expect them to tell them stuff like don't do ****** or maybe don't eat 50 cheeseburgers in one sitting if they want to live a long time. Maybe instead of wasting time writing to those idiots in the white house who wouldn't recognize a piece of legislation if it grew legs and sat on their ****ing faces they should sit down and talk with the little monsters. But no, they won't do that. They'll let them raise themselves then cry even harder when little Jimmy ****bag is obese and has his first heart attack in junior high then they'll sue McDonalds for making the burgers so tasty!

Rant over.

If I buy you a bullhorn, will you go to DC and scream all that at the FDstupidA and the White House? Please??

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

The fight against those who will lose a lot if they dont stop vaping is s serious daunting ordeal but people do need to understand, no matter how hard it seems, it is a fight that can be won regardless how many billions BT and BP throws at it. We actually have something they dont. Strength in numbers. But this advantage is worthless if its not employed. If the majority of us just took the time to write a form letter stating how old we are (as in not kids), that we use to smoke how much and we tried for how long to quit and nothing worked but vaping, and then send that form letter to every one of our elected officials both state and federal then we would be a force worthy of recognition.
It easy yet how many who are complaining about this actually taken the time to bother to do this? Every elected official that I can vote for both on the state and federal level has heard from me. Has yours? This is how you fight them. This is doing your part to help protect our right to vape.

I was going to say that what we have that they don't, is the truth -- and the truth will always remain the truth, no matter what anyone says about it.

Andria

 

[bluecat]

What they actually do is hire a survey company and tell them the results they want and then this company will word the questions in such a way that will guarantee those results.

Fortunately I am not a resident of Cincinnati. Recently they had a streetcar referendum on the ballot. Here is the jist of it

A "yes" vote on Issue 9 would have required another vote before a streetcar system can be funded and built. A "no" vote on Issue 9 will allow the city officials to embark on a streetcar project without additional voter approval.

So if you vote no for the streetcar referendum, you are voting for it to be funded and built. If you vote yes for it... it pushes it off for to another date. Of course the streetcar passed. With wording like that how could it not. It is also over budget.. and they still have no clue how to fund it.. but we have a streetcar! Well almost.. At least the construction of tracks are almost complete. Now they need to find money for the actual cars for it. This was in 2009.

Oh yeah.. We still have unfinished tunnels (amazing amount) from the 1920's when a subway was to be built to replace the initial streetcars.

Basically everything is worded in a way that no matter what you say they get their answer. Surveys are useless.

 

[Woofer]

I was going to say that what we have that they don't, is the truth -- and the truth will always remain the truth, no matter what anyone says about it.

Andria

The truth is that as a species we are extremely stupid and gullible.

 

[Lessifer]

Fortunately I am not a resident of Cincinnati. Recently they had a streetcar referendum on the ballot. Here is the jist of it

A "yes" vote on Issue 9 would have required another vote before a streetcar system can be funded and built. A "no" vote on Issue 9 will allow the city officials to embark on a streetcar project without additional voter approval.

So if you vote no for the streetcar referendum, you are voting for it to be funded and built. If you vote yes for it... it pushes it off for to another date. Of course the streetcar passed. With wording like that how could it not. It is also over budget.. and they still have no clue how to fund it.. but we have a streetcar! Well almost.. At least the construction of tracks are almost complete. Now they need to find money for the actual cars for it. This was in 2009.

Oh yeah.. We still have unfinished tunnels (amazing amount) from the 1920's when a subway was to be built to replace the initial streetcars.

Basically everything is worded in a way that no matter what you say they get their answer. Surveys are useless.

When doing scientific studies, you are supposed to make the questions as unbiased and un-leading as possible, and they are supposed to be reviewed by committees to ensure that they are, otherwise your work is rejected and you don't get published. Unfortunately I don't think anyone reviews the CDC... and they can publish whatever they want as a press release.

 

[caramel]

It's now reported in Time:

http://time .com/3843214/e-cigarettes-regulation-health-experts/

Wondering why they're quoting mechanical engineers there.