Is Water Baptism Necessary For Salvation????

[providencewouldhaveit]

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
　
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

There is plenty of scriptural proof that it is Christ alone who deserves the glory for all the work of our salvation. As those bought with great price we gladly wear the (ring of our betrothal) Baptism identifies us to the world as His.

 

[lmrasch]

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
　
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

There is plenty of scriptural proof that it is Christ alone who deserves the glory for all the work of our salvation. As those bought with great price we gladly wear the (ring of our betrothal) Baptism identifies us to the world as His.

Thank you so much providence, beautiful!

 

[providencewouldhaveit]

Here is a more indepth study.
Does Water Baptism Save? Part 1

 

[LisaLisa]

Awesome post Providence!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Saintscruiser]

WTG Providence! I applaud you as well, my Sister. I just love all of you.....guys too. I'm like Lisa, I feel like an alien when I'm not here amongst ya'll. I have never felt this deeply involved with any group online....ever. Ya'll are family. That's the ultimate to me!!!

 

[LisaLisa]

WTG Providence! I applaud you as well, my Sister. I just love all of you.....guys too. I'm like Lisa, I feel like an alien when I'm not here amongst ya'll. I have never felt this deeply involved with any group online....ever. Ya'll are family. That's the ultimate to me!!!

Me too!

 

[blondeambition3]

Me too!

Me THREE!!!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

Gent, so are you saying that every time you sin, you have to get re baptized in order to truly repent? I read your interpretation of repentance in the rather lengthy post. Not being upidy, just trying to clarify what you believe.

I need more butter ...

 

[LisaLisa]

I need more butter ...

LMAO!!!!!!!!! I just had a big lung full of super strong menthol vapor when I read that, I coughed it out and almost threw up!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Southern Gent]

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Gladly received the word and were baptized. To say that this has changed is to ratify or nullify the command given by Peter on Pentecost. The Bible does not contradict itself therefore the latter does not nullify or ratify the previous. Baptism for the forgiveness of sin is the doctrine of the apostles. I have yet to see proof from any scriptural evidence provided by anyone that this does not exist or has been ratified. Any doctrine other than that of the apostles is unsound. I'll not say any more concerning it due to contention but to ignore a command given through an authorized agent of Jesus Christ is dangerous at best. If all the so called evidence that has been provided is proof positive that it is not needed, I would be interested in hearing about just what happened at Pentecost and how the church of our Lord began. I seriously want someone to deal with these scriptures from Acts 2 and tell me where we have been commanded or allowed to do way with the doctrine.

 

[eHuman]

Once we become truly saved, Does telling a lie dis-qualify us from salvation?

If I become saved while lost in the desert, does the lack of convenient oasis to baptize in (ironically that causes me to die from thirst) also cause me to lose my salvation because I couldn't get to water?

If I serve a term in jail due to robbery and during my stay I become saved, we plan to break the law and hold a secret baptism the following night but the tarp we would use for it is stolen. We reschedule for the following week to give time to steal another tarp but I am killed in a prison riot before the blessed event that grants my salvation. Is this ironic justice because I was incarcerated for theft?

The letter kills the Spirit brings life.

Is it what we say? or what is truly in our heart that God examines more weighty?

Baptism in Greek baptid'zo - baptizo - to employ water in a religious ceremony designed to symbolize purification and initiation on the basis of repentance - 'to baptize, baptism.'

What comment did Jesus give to the Pharisees concerning the ceremonial washing of the outside but failing to clean the inside? Jesus Himself did not wash the outside.

Cornelius a Gentile was first baptized by the Holy Spirit (strong sign of God's acceptance?), and then later baptized by water. The symbolic outward statement of the inward work of repentance (which is a gift from God).

If God grants the gift of repentance and the gift of faith to believe upon Jim but Jim's mentor mistakingly doesn't understand the importance of baptism so fails to tell Jim. Has Jim's mentor thwarted God's plans and caused Jesus to lose one of those whom the Father had entrusted to Him?

Are we losing the forest for the trees here? Is failing to be baptized the unpardonable sin?

It is one thing to have differing opinions on this because regardless of what we think God will save whom He will save. But I'm detecting a lock-jaw latch to the letter and a failure to grasp of the Spirit of this topic and God in general. Not unlike what Jesus had to say about men who studied the law their whole life.

Mandated rules and guidelines for method of studying the Bible? You mean the ones that man came up with? Those may not be necessary if the Spirit of God is teaching.

God gave ten commandments. There where over six hundred by the time Jesus showed up, all added by men.

Baptism and the observing of the last supper are the only two Christian ordinances that we have. We are told (Greek Imperative meaning a command) to be baptized. A new believer should be baptized, and should want to be baptized.

We are told many times in the Bible that a believer be baptized, but never once that if he isn't then the gift of salvation is withheld or refused. That is reading into scripture what is just not there.

Failing to be baptized, lying, cheating, becoming angry with your wife, lusting, selfishness. For which of these sins once truly saved will you have your gift of salvation revoked?

Roman 7 and 8 and Paul: "I do the things I don't want to and don't do the things that I should, who can save me from this body of death? Thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. I find myself with my mind serving God but with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

I am so thankful for the gift of forgiveness, and the grace and mercy bestowed upon me. Because while I am not yet perfected, God is in the process of doing so in me. Every time I open the Bible I see great reason for the need of salvation because even though I have come so far, I am so far away. I love the Lord but I still stumble.

Are you saved? Ya? Have you been baptized? No? Why not? God wants you to be baptized just as strongly as He doesn't want you to sin. Do it to honor Him at your earliest chance.

Will it secure your salvation? No. Some people are baptized that do not belong to God and never will. Your heart is either right with God or it isn't, but if it is, then what stops one from being baptized if they can be?

 

[Saintscruiser]

I need more butter ...

Priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Southern Gent]

Cornelius a Gentile was first baptized by the Holy Spirit (strong sign of God's acceptance?), and then later baptized by water. The symbolic outward statement of the inward work of repentance (which is a gift from God).

Nope.
It is obvious from the context that Cornelius was a Gentile, not a Jew (cf. 10:1-3). The fact that Cornelius was a religious-minded person is seen clearly in his description in :2.
Along those lines, please notice five points in God's description of this man:
a. "devout" - having deep religious thoughts and feelings.
b. "feared God" - he had a deep honor, respect, and healthy fear of the one true and living God.
c. "with all his household" -The word translated "household" could include not only a person's family, but also his servants and employees. Thus, Cornelius had influenced his family, servants, etc. to follow his lead in fearing God.
d. "who gave alms generously" - he was generous in giving charity to those who were needy.
e. "prayed to God always" - he was a man of prayer.
When we study God's description of Cornelius, it is clear he was a very good man, who was seeking to learn and do God's will!
Yet, just like the example of Saul, Cornelius still needed to have someone come and speak, "words by which you and all your household will be saved" (11:14)! Thus, Cornelius was not saved just because he was a good, religious man who feared God, was charitable, and prayed to God regularly. All of these things were good, but they were not enough. Cornelius and his household still needed to hear words telling them what they had to do to be saved.

 

[Southern Gent]

Now we are cutting to the chase. Admitted contextually that it is an absolute/imperative form. Not to adhere willing after you know to do it is sin. It is a salvation issue and the apostles taught this imperatively as a means of having sin forgiven. Cornelius is a prime example. He was a man of God more than most Christians of today and yet he still was not saved until he took part in the imperative.

baptidzo-is to dip or immerse

 

[blondeambition3]

Now we are cutting to the chase. Admitted contextually that it is an absolute/imperative form. Not to adhere willing after you know to do it is sin. It is a salvation issue and the apostles taught this imperatively as a means of having sin forgiven. Cornelius is a prime example. He was a man of God more than most Christians of today and yet he still was not saved until he took part in the imperative.

.... you guys are good ....

 

[eHuman]

As long as two people stand on opposite sides of a debate the potential for strife will ever be present. I come to share and to learn. I love discussing the Word of God.

Southern Gent I won't even begin to question that it is obvious that you have had many years of devout study under someone. But in all of your quest for academic excellence it appears that your study of the letter has left you hard pressed to discern the Spirit of the Word.

Claims like "I've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt my stance from scripture"... Sir you completely skipped over and ignored some pretty weighty evidense in my post and others. I know it is difficult and probably not very realistic of me or others to expect you to jump from an understanding that you have spent many an hour studying yourself into.

While using scholarly hermanutics, beyond asking who, what, when, why, where, do you also ask, "Jesus where are you in this scripture, I see the letter, where is the Spirit"?

Show me one thing from scripture (Q below) and it will help turn this teaching fruitful for you as the rest of us will have no choice but to re-examine our stances:

I know the places that say believe, repent and be baptized. Show me one that says what happens if we are not baptized.

It states nowhere, "Believe and repent but fail to be baptized and you will remain lost".
It does however state in places that salvation can be gained without the mention of baptism. Even if baptism was subsequently performed, it was not listed as the requirement for salvation.
It is a requirement for those professiong to or wanting to belong to Christ. Not a requirement to become saved by Him.


Jesus did not Himself baptize anyone (in water).
Paul thanked God that he didn't baptize many.

The letter brings death and the Spirit brings life. Do not miss what it is that God is after. God gave the 10 commandments and "said" do these and live, fail to do them and die. If you fail to do all of them always, then make the following sacrifice and your sin will be covered....

What is God saying? "I want you to be perfect but you can't be only I can. So in exchange for a pardon, you must trust in the sacrifice as sufficient to cover your sins".

Baptism (as apposed to the Greek word meaning to dip) means to immerse and come out different than you went in. Two examples, baptizing white wool in blue dye, every fiber has forever been stained. Baptizing a cucumber into brine forever changing it into a pickle, never to be a cucumber again.

Ceremonial baptism never cleansed. It is symbolic of the cleansing that God does in us.
God is not after the symbolic ceremony He is after our hearts to commit to Him.

Luke 10:25-28
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?"
27 And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
28 And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."

Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Acts 16:30-31
30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[eHuman]

Now we are cutting to the chase. Admitted contextually that it is an absolute/imperative form. Not to adhere willing after you know to do it is sin. It is a salvation issue and the apostles taught this imperatively as a means of having sin forgiven. Cornelius is a prime example. He was a man of God more than most Christians of today and yet he still was not saved until he took part in the imperative.

baptidzo-is to dip or immerse

Cornelius is a prime example, he was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was baptized. It is an obedience issue, not a salvation issue.
(Eph 1) The gift of the Holy Spirit is an earnest or down payment, a portion of the promised whole given as a good will or good faith that the remainder would be gauranteed to be delivered in full. If the giver of the earnest failed to deliver then the earnest was forfeited I.E. he cannot take back the down payment. God cannot fail nor go against His own word. God cannot give of His Spirit and fail to take it back and send that person to Hell along with His Spirit.

 

[Southern Gent]

Southern Gent I won't even begin to question that it is obvious that you have had many years of devout study under someone. But in all of your quest for academic excellence it appears that your study of the letter has left you hard pressed to discern the Spirit of the Word.
This is not a question of academics it is about truth in Gods word.

Sir you completely skipped over and ignored some pretty weighty evidense in my post and others.
You offered no such evidence other than what has already been given based personal feelings or emotion. In the desert with no water? I wonder how many times said desert person has ignored the gospel during his lifetime. It's the same hypothetical questioning instead of dealing with what the word of God says.

While using scholarly hermanutics, beyond asking who, what, when, why, where, do you also ask, "Jesus where are you in this scripture, I see the letter, where is the Spirit"?
Without proper hermeneutics there will not be a way to find the truth.

I know the places that say believe, repent and be baptized. Show me one that says what happens if we are not baptized.
You can't be serious. You have already by your owns words said it is an imperative command. "Love God", "obey God" is an imperative command. Wonder what would happen if we didn't do it?

It is a requirement for those professiong to or wanting to belong to Christ.
So you can be saved by Christ and yet not belong to Him?

Jesus did not Himself baptize anyone (in water).
I beg to differ. .John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Cornelius is a prime example, he was filled with the Holy Spirit before he was baptized. It is an obedience issue, not a salvation issue.
Without obedience you have no salvation.

Now I know that you study original text and I am very happy that you do as I feel you will understand this more than someone who has not. In order for what is being said here to be true (baptism not needed) the Greek text must change from that given at Pentecost. What does the imperative text say: "repent (kai) "and" be baptized for (eis) the remission/forgiveness of sin. For baptism not to be needed what must change? the word for (eis). So let's consider the change and the doctrine that it comes from. Please remember that this out of love and concern for all reading regardless of your church heritage.
Consider Acts 2:38 "And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. " (A.S.V.)
This verse very obviously teaches that baptism is "unto the remission of sins." To avoid the force of it, Baptists concocted two plans: (1) "unto" (A.S.V.) or "for" (K.J.V.) means "because of" or "on account of", i.e., "be baptized because of remission of sins" which has already taken place. (2) "unto remission of sins" cannot modify both verbs, "repent" and "be baptized". If either of them is false, then the Baptist idea that baptism in not essential is false.
Does "unto" mean "because of"? The word "unto" means "indicating the direction of movement reaching its object or of approach, inclination, or tendency, in respect of an unreached object."
Does any recognized translation translate Acts 2:38 as "because of remission of sin." Decidedly not.
Does any recognized Greek English Lexicon give the preposition (Gr. “eis”) the meaning "because of", "on account of"? On the contrary, all render it as prospective, looking to an end to be reached, purpose, or aim. Thayer, recognized as the best lexicographer, says of Acts 2:38: "to obtain the forgiveness of sins."

Regardless of "the spirit" involved, we can not overlook the word of God to reach a satisfying conclusion. As you said earlier, "it is a matter of obedience" and without obedience there can be no salvation. The idea that we do nothing for our own salvation has no merit. No we have nothing to do with the miraculous but the obedience part is ours.

 

[lmrasch]

Quote Southern Gent: Without proper hermeneutics there will not be a way to find the truth. End Quote

And this is the crux of the problem....
1John 2
26) I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27) As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide us into all truth.; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."
John 16:13 NKJV

 

[Southern Gent]

Quote Southern Gent: Without proper hermeneutics there will not be a way to find the truth. End Quote

And this is the crux of the problem....
1John 2
26) I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27) As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide us into all truth.; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."
John 16:13 NKJV

Sorry but these are out of context. God is spirit and He declares that we worship Him in spirit and in truth. Spirit without truth is useless.