There've been issues lately of vendors' claims regarding diketones not being honest.
"It only takes ONE bad chemical"
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There've been issues lately of vendors' claims regarding diketones not being honest.
Yes, I'm aware of that. Seems to me that if regular, normal FTC regulations can't keep that from happening, then MORE regulations are utterly pointless.
It's why I went to DIY; I figure that flavor manufacturers, who were around before vaping and will be around even if the FDA manages to make vaping extinct, are far more trustworthy as to the contents of their flavors, than all these johnny-come-latelys trying to make a quick buck with ejuice.
But I really don't see that that situation has anything to do with the discussion about "free speech" -- there are specific guidelines regarding "commercial speech," mainly from the FTC I believe, and those guidelines are apparently being disregarded by a great many ejuice makers. More regulations aren't going to make the unscrupulous scrupulous.
Andria
To the point that many here went "DIY unflavoured" because they trust the manufacturers of the raw chemicals way more than the "vaping industry".
With that trust derived from the fact that those manufacturers are regulated while the vaping industry isn't.
Yet we keep seeing allegations that the cure is total deregulation.
That statement ignores the fact that the regulations are regarding eating, not inhaling.
That was a good post, BTW. I should've hit the like button while I had a chance. It put things in context, how there's no mad attempt to protect babies from every trace amount of toxins in baby food.
I was referring to the regulations saying that if the bottle reads "PG 99.99% USP" then that's what shall be inside, with the remaining 0.01% being GRAS. Of course this PG was not intended for inhalation, that's the risk any vaper will have to assume. But a good part of them don't want to assume any further risks like inhaling unknown substances.
As for the flavours, I actually mentioned "DIY unflavoured".
Not sure why you have dishonest in quotes, so not sure if I agree with this. But who determines what is reasonable presumption?
My point was that if knowledge on safety of eCigs can ONLY be had via long term studies, then it is dishonest to say we KNOW that eCigs right now are safer than smoking.
If we know that eCigs right now are safer than smoking, then we also know right now that inhaling diketones from eLiquid is GRAS. How do we know this? Based on evidence of zero reported incidents of harm, and specifically that a condition like B.O. has been known to manifest in 18 months, or less, in cases where it was an issue for inhalation. Is it possible that someone's lungs may still be damaged via vaping? I would say yes, and also say it is likely, but in a small percentage and not the majority. This I base on reasonable presumption.
I was referring to the regulations saying that if the bottle reads "PG 99.99% USP" then that's what shall be inside, with the remaining 0.01% being GRAS. Of course this PG was not intended for inhalation, that's the risk any vaper will have to assume. But a good part of them don't want to assume any further risks like inhaling unknown substances.
As for the flavours, I actually mentioned "DIY unflavoured".
Ok, I misread. You weren't refering the the flavour manufacturers. Yeah, I'm an example of someone who trusts the regulated PG and VG makers a lot more than the unregulated e-juice vendors.
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but had to post anyway. I am uninsured as well Andria and so I get you completely in regards to this. I spent more then a few nights when I was low on my inhalant sitting in a chair with my finger on the emergency call button on my phone. It's a scary feeling yeh?
Warning
Extremely! And after I started vaping, and didn't yet know how horridly VG would affect my breathing, I spent many hours sitting backward in a chair, leaning over the back of it (it relieves pressure on the lungs), just trying to breathe slowly and evenly -- or kneeling beside my bed so I could lean forward that way, to relieve the pressure.
Now I use 500/50 Advair instead of 250/50, and it's helping my breathing a GREAT deal... but brings its own problems with insomnia and suchlike agitation. I can't take that high dose of steroids at midnight, as I used to with the 250/50, or I can't sleep a wink -- I've started taking it around 10pm, so that when bedtime rolls around, about 3am, I actually have a hope of sleep.
I'm really hoping that once I'm done with the WTA, my asthma will become as trouble-free as it used to be, before I needed the WTA.
Andria
Where do you put your trust?
The government tends to do what is best for the government.
The businesses do what is best for business.
I would wish to remain free to do what I consider best for me.
The government does not like my view on this.
Removing freedom of choice is not a tenable solution.
The government tends to do what is best for the government.
The businesses do what is best for business.
I would wish to remain free to do what I consider best for me.
The government does not like my view on this.
Removing freedom of choice is not a tenable solution.
That was Voltaire - or attributed to him, likely from this actual quote "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write." Voltaire, letter to M. le Riche, February 6, 1770
And the right to free speech and press - isn't for the 'good stuff' - then it wouldn't be needed - but for the 'bad' stuff - including among other types - "hate speech" (or what some refer to as hate speech).
The solution is 'free speech' - let them talk and people will decide. Force them into silence or a form of suppressed communication and you get David Duke and the 'nudges' of Cass Sunstein and company.
Except for one 'noted' vendor, do you have any other examples to share with us? Otherwise you're basically tarnishing the reputation of all vendors.
Did you miss the thread about Vapourshark ratting out a whole list of vendors using diketones?
I must have. Did those vendors promote 'no diketones'? If so, no one should buy from them... well no one who is concerned about that. And he still should have provided a link when making that type of statement.
Here it is:
Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors | E-Cigarette Forum
Let me know if you still support "free speech" in labeling, I might have a few bars of gold to sell.
Here it is:
Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors | E-Cigarette Forum
Let me know if you still support "free speech" in labeling, I might have a few bars of gold to sell.
Fraud is a 'stealing'. It has nothing to do with free speech. The argument is not worth going through with you though. I'm against forced labeling. And if you have gold to sell, I'd consider it at market prices. PM me.
It's not "stealing". It's about getting unfair advantage. The concept of "fraud" is derived from the concept of "fairness"', an ethical concept that "free speech" and "free markets" are devoid of.
How about the concept of truthful labeling? Are you against it as well?
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