It's 1 thing to claim ecigs are unhealthy but to lie to the public?

[DrMA]

The jury is still out on nicotine. Some studies have found it to be harmful and addicting. Inhalation of nicotine without the associated tobacco chemicals is a relatively new phenomena. Not enough time has elapsed for there to be long-term studies.
I don't think the pejorative term ANTZ necessarily means anti-ecig.

All of that is false. There is no evidence nicotine by itself is harmful or addictive, short of deliberately taking ridiculously high doses. In contrast there is ample evidence, including long-term studies, that long-term inhalation of nicotine does not cause any adverse health effects, and may even help delay, or even reverse the effects of degenerative brain disease.

Here's more evidence than nicotine by itself is neither harmful nor addictive:
FAQ: Nicotine (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
Psych Central - New studies on Alzheimer's, autism, nicotine addiction and depression highlight annual meeting
https://canadavapes.com/health/nicotine-safety.html

 

[Nikkel]

All of that is false.

All of it is true.

Evidence that nicotine per se is harmful:
Effects of Nicotine During Pregnancy: Human and Experimental Evidence
"However, the safety of NRT has not been well documented, and animal studies have in fact pointed to nicotine per se as being responsible for a multitude of these detrimental effects."

Perinatal Nicotine Exposure Increases Vulnerability of Hypoxic-Ischemic Brain Injury in Neonatal Rats: Role of Angiotensin II Receptors
"Epidemiological and animal studies have provided evidence linking perinatal nicotine exposure and the increased incidence of neurodevelopmental disorders, neurobehavioral deficits, impaired cognitive performance and increased risk of affective disorders later in life."

Evidence that nicotine per se is addictive:
The scientific case that nicotine ... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1995] - PubMed - NCBI
"A well-defined nicotine withdrawal syndrome has been delineated which is alleviated by nicotine replacement. Nicotine replacement also enhances outcomes in smoking cessation, roughly doubling success rates. In total, the evidence clearly identifies nicotine as a powerful drug of addiction, comparable to ......, ....... and alcohol."

http://ash.org/addictive.html
"The research "adds new weight to the conclusion that nicotine is indeed addictive," wrote Dr. Leslie L. Iversen of the University of Oxford in a commentary that is appearing today with the study in the journal Nature."

[The "long-term" study mentioned lasted two years. That is not very long-term at all. Some cancers and other diseases take considerably longer to develop. It takes 10, 20, 30 years or more for lung cancer to develop as a result of cig smoking, for example.]

 

[DrMA]

ANTZ play book rule #1: «if the evidence is against your claims make it all about saving the children»

 

[Nermal]

Well, I don't favor infants vaping either. You know this is happening how. . . ?

 

[Hulamoon]

Because Nikkel's mom n pop were smokers?

I'd like to witness the results of you arguing the point with those parents who do actively smoke around their kids, or while pregnant.

Take it up with them, not me.

 

[sonicdsl]

Actually, the term ANTZ was coined by Kristin, a board member of CASAA, who has nothing to do with the tobacco industry.

 

[Stosh]

{MODERATED}

So you're back to equating smoking studies with nicotine usage studies. Smoking kills, we know that, nicotine use doesn't. We don't have any 30 or 40 year studies on iPhone use, they need to be regulated out of existence until the studies are completed....

 

[DaveP]

I view vaping as being somewhat equivalent to diet drinks vs sugar laced cola. Neither is desirable, we are better off drinking just water. Since variety is the spice of life, I'm better off vaping than smoking.

Had I forced myself to quit using Nicorette I'd still be wanting to smoke. I know that because I quit for two years once and never really lost the hand to mouth urge. I made up for it by eating constantly and gained twenty pounds! Not good ...

 

[DrMA]

So you're back to equating smoking studies with nicotine usage studies. Smoking kills, we know that, nicotine use doesn't. We don't have any 30 or 40 year studies on iPhone use, they need to be regulated out of existence until the studies are completed....

That's exactly right. Let's not confuse and conflate combustible cigarette smoking with nicotine, even though that's exactly what those studies cited by Nikkel are doing.

ANTZ really love to confuse the discourse by putting the equal sign between smoking and nicotine, and between smoking and vaping. That is false and misleading, junk science dangerous to public and individual health.

The truth is, there are dozens of studies on pure nicotine, as well as decades-long history of use with NRTs, and all have found little or no adverse health effects or potential for addiction. There's also the data from the FDA showing reports of adverse effects from NRT over their entire history of use: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574268

All it takes is a few minutes on google, and any open minded individual would arrive at the same conclusion.

 

[Hulamoon]

Oh well. A source of great entertainment while it lasted.

 

[Anjaffm]

I am very pleased indeed with the outcome of this thread.
Thank you, ECF leadership!

 

[rothenbj]

It is a good thing that we no longer use tobacco. Most of us are happy that we don't. We know how harmful it is, to ourselves and those around us. Who, in his right mind, would be enthusiastically in favor of tobacco? Who, in his right mind, does not feel animosity toward tobacco companies?
The jury is still out on nicotine. Some studies have found it to be harmful and addicting. Inhalation of nicotine without the associated tobacco chemicals is a relatively new phenomena. Not enough time has elapsed for there to be long-term studies.
I don't think the pejorative term ANTZ necessarily means anti-ecig. I'm in favor of ecigs myself. I don't think I would say I am zealot. More like being cautiously optimistic.
Although I have been labeled an ANTZ by some in this forum, I think that is a mistake. I am neither ANTZ nor PANTZ (pro).
The term "ANTZ" was probably coined by the tobacco industry so they could claim to be the victims of unreasonable fanaticism. It is a shame that Big Ecig has adopted that term.

You have a most interesting point of view. There is nothing inherently wrong with tobacco or tobacco companies, personally, I'd feel bad about having animosity toward tobacco companies and I'm old enough to remember when over half the people smoked and the other have didn't have issues with it. Take some personal responsibility for you own actions. You were told smoking was bad for you but you still decided to do so. Own it.

I have more disrespect for the anti-tobacco movement, they have made a living on dishonesty. They've known for decades that inhaling smoke was the major issue with tobacco use. Not only did they hide that fact, they sold propaganda that smokeless tobacco was worse than smoking and promoted useless Pharma products with miserable success rates.

If the jury is still out on nicotine, the FDA and the Pharma companies haven't agreed with you.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with my mind it's very clear on the history of smoking and unlike former smokers such as yourself, I have no problem if someone desires to continue to do so. I'll suggest there are better alternatives, but it's there life.

 

[Anjaffm]

@rothenbj:
excellent! I fully agree.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Every time I see some one enjoying themselves in a way that I don't approve of, I am offended and, consequently, I object. With my superior intellect and caring heart, I will protect you from yourself.

You may now thank me, profusely I am sure, I deserve it.

For the very thin skinned, this is intended as sarcasm.