It's time for the e-cigarette industry to grow up.

[BiffRocko]

I'm posting this in OUTSIDE! because I know that people have good relationships with suppliers and I figure this could get heated as they come to the defense of their favorites. I like our fearless suppliers too. I think they are fine individuals, but I feel that it's time for the e-cigarette industry to move from it's cottage status to something more professional.

To date, every single mod I've purchased has had some problem. I'm not going to name names here. I've posted in the past about a few of these issues. I'll let you, the reader, go through my old posts and try to figure out who I'm talking about if you're really that curious. One mod has had long term quality issues regarding the finish and switch. Another came with a poorly applied finish that would never have made it through a professional quality assurance process. Another didn't work right from the moment I got it and needs to be sent back for repair. Another was the wrong color.

juice suppliers, on the other hand, are doing it right in my opinion. I've had zero problems with any of them, and I've ordered from at least six or seven different suppliers.

Perhaps I'm used to dealing with long established industries since all my other hobbies are in sectors that have been going strong for decades. Perhaps I'm just impatient. What are your thoughts and experiences in regards to the cottage status of the US e-cigarette industry? Do I just have incredibly bad luck or is this something others have noticed and are waiting for as well?

 

[Infernal2]

I could be wrong as I'm more of a recent edition but I didn't think e-cigarettes were the topic du jour here? I mean, its an interesting topic don't get me wrong, I just didn't think it was appropriate in this forum. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

 

[BiffRocko]

A mod is welcome to move it if they feel it's appropriate to do so. In the meantime, I was being safe rather than sorry.

 

[JohnKing]

I'm posting this in OUTSIDE! because I know that people have good relationships with suppliers and I figure this could get heated as they come to the defense of their favorites. I like our fearless suppliers too. I think they are fine individuals, but I feel that it's time for the e-cigarette industry to move from it's cottage status to something more professional.

To date, every single mod I've purchased has had some problem. I'm not going to name names here. I've posted in the past about a few of these issues. I'll let you, the reader, go through my old posts and try to figure out who I'm talking about if you're really that curious. One mod has had long term quality issues regarding the finish and switch. Another came with a poorly applied finish that would never have made it through a professional quality assurance process. Another didn't work right from the moment I got it and needs to be sent back for repair. Another was the wrong color.

Juice suppliers, on the other hand, are doing it right in my opinion. I've had zero problems with any of them, and I've ordered from at least six or seven different suppliers.

Perhaps I'm used to dealing with long established industries since all my other hobbies are in sectors that have been going strong for decades. Perhaps I'm just impatient. What are your thoughts and experiences in regards to the cottage status of the US e-cigarette industry? Do I just have incredibly bad luck or is this something others have noticed and are waiting for as well?

Don't expect proper R&D or development to come from the U.S., who will commit resources to a product that is under fire from the FDA?

Sadly, this situation is not unique to e-cigs. It is the prime reason why China is a "rising economy", they make stuff because they CAN. U.S. based innovation is near impossible with the myriad of alphabet agencies and taxing/compliance bureaucracies at every level of government.

 

[Bones]

Are we talking about "mods"? - Are mods not the types that are made up by Joe-Blow in his basement from existing parts? I think they are? - If so - This has nothing to do with R&D in the US - This is just guys like you and me slapping parts together to try to make a buck - You want nice finish and reliable products - Buy the existing branded units - Not the ones "modified" from their parts -

Another came with a poorly applied finish that would never have made it through a professional quality assurance process.

There's your problem right there - If you are buying mods - Why would you expect a "professional quality assurance process" - Not that some modders don't operate more professionally than others - But - Unless I am way off the mark here - Most of them are just some guy - Don't like it? - Stop buying it -

 

[Elendil]

Moving to GD

 

[BiffRocko]

Are we talking about "mods" - Are mods not the types that are made up by Joe-Blow in his basement from existing parts? I think they are? - If so - This has nothing to do with R&D in the US - This is just guys like you and me slapping parts together to try to make a buck - You want nice finish and reliable products - Buy the existing branded units - Not the ones "modified" from their parts -

By mods, I'm talking about non-Chinese mass manufactured PVs (eg. eGo, 510). In fact, the only non-Chinese mass manufactured PV I've purchased that came as expected was a Tekk mod. (ie. something that was built for another purpose and modified to be a PV) Unfortunately, I fried that one myself when I took it apart to clean out juice that had leaked inside. I didn't put it back together carefully and caused a short.

The units I'm talking about are purpose built, specifically manufactured PVs that we frequently discuss in threads under the name "mods".

Moving to GD

Thanks, Elendil.

 

[JohnKing]

Are we talking about "mods" - Are mods not the types that are made up by Joe-Blow in his basement from existing parts? I think they are? - If so - This has nothing to do with R&D in the US - This is just guys like you and me slapping parts together to try to make a buck - You want nice finish and reliable products - Buy the existing branded units - Not the ones "modified" from their parts -

yeah, why do you think they call them mods? Chinese R&D = Read modding forums.

 

[BiffRocko]

The units I'm talking about are purpose built, specifically manufactured PVs that we frequently discuss in threads under the name "mods".

In other words, these and others that are manufactured to specifically be PVs:

Battery Tube e-Cig Mods | e-Cigarette Mods Database

 

[Bones]

yeah, why do you think they call them mods? Chinese R&D = Read modding forums.

Well I used to read them frequently - And I thought that those were being put together with existing Chinese parts and only the cases and wring was made here - Mods means MODIFIED - Not INVENTED - Have we extended the definition of modified? We have atomizers being manufactured by modders now? - These are honest questions - Not sarcastic - I have always been under the impression that mods are modified - Not invented/manufactured from scratch -

 

[cosmic charlie]

yeah, why do you think they call them mods? Chinese R&D = Read modding forums.

Yeah I saw a supplier post a link to a chinese manufacturer that had not only copied his product but was using images of his product off his web site!

 

[BiffRocko]

Well I used to read them frequently - And I thought that those were being put together with existing Chinese parts and only the cases and wring was made here - Mods means MODIFIED - Not INVENTED - Have we extended the definition of modified? We have atomizers being manufactured by modders now? - These are honest questions - Not sarcastic - I have always been under the impression that mods are modified - Not invented/manufactured from scratch -

You've got over 1800 posts here. You know full well that people here classify the PVs I linked as "mods". You may also know that the term high voltage vaping is a misnomer and the correct term is high wattage vaping. It's still a common term that has meaning to the masses so we use it because of that. I've clarified twice now what I mean. Please stick to the spirit of the thread and leave the semantic discussions for somewhere else.

Edit: Sorry if that seemed a bit harsh. I just want to focus on the topic at hand, because we as consumers vote with our dollars. If the sort of thing I've experienced is a more widespread issue, suppliers need to know it. If we just keep accepting poor quality products (even though the level of service is fantastic from US suppliers) then that's what we'll continue to get from them.

 

[Bones]

we as consumers vote with our dollars.

There's the answer right there - Don't buy them -

Sorry if I was a bit confused - If I "knew full well" - I wouldn't have been confused - I've been very happy with the units I have and so have not spent much time looking at others - I have always thought that Mods were merely modified from existing parts - Apparently this has progessed a lot further than when I last paid attention to the issue -

 

[WomanOfHeart]

I've always thought of "mods" as those modified PV's that require a separate battery for operation. To that end, it doesn't include any of the 510, eGo, Riva, KR808 starter kits that people commonly start out using.

I'm very sorry that you've had so many problems with your mods. The only problems I've had with mine are that two of the adapter caps for my Indulgence wouldn't screw on. No big deal. I emailed the vendor and they sent replacements. I probably won't even use one of the caps, but if I ever decide to sell it I want everything to work.

The button on my Chameleon can be kind of sticky sometimes. Again, no big deal. I emailed Issac and he's going to clean it out and replace it for me since I'm not comfortable doing it myself. If needed, he'll replace the button section.

I don't see these as huge, glaring problems so much as normal bumps in the road. I've never really had a poor customer service problem from any of the vendors I've dealt with so far. Every single one has gone out of their way to make things right when needed and been very polite, helpful and even apologetic.

 

[BiffRocko]

There's the answer right there - Don't buy them

How is that an answer? Every device I've purchased has been from a different manufacturer. Only after buying this many PVs has revealed that this may be a larger pattern within the industry. This is pretty standard consumer fair. For example, two of the first three cars I've owned were American. They both had tons of problems. My second, a Japanese car, didn't. Hence, my fourth and subsequent cars have all been Japanese.

It just happens that the latest PV I purchased is satisfactory in all regards but the color, and I can live with that. I don't plan to purchase anything else for some time to come, but the mass manufactured mods with either short battery life or 3.2v operation don't satisfy my needs. My only choice is to buy from the smaller manufacturers. If I kept buying from the same manufacturer expecting different results, you'd have a point. When I, as a consumer, have done what I can by buying from different manufacturers each time it's most certainly not an answer. If my experience is shared by others, it's a problem with the current state of the industry and needs to be addressed.

 

[ShannonS]

In the past few years, I think that PV's have come a long way in terms of performance, cost, availability and options. When I started vaping, there were just a couple of PVs on the market. Choice was pretty limited. You could get a mini or a penstyle and I think there was one epipe on the market at the time. No one had even heard of a cartomizer, LOL.

These guys out to make a buck from modding in their basement changed the industry by proving demand for higher wattage and we ended up with the eGo in mass production.

I think that the real problem is the hype that surrounds some mods can build expectations of the mod that the mod really can't live up to.

 

[BiffRocko]

I've always thought of "mods" as those modified PV's that require a separate battery for operation. To that end, it doesn't include any of the 510, eGo, Riva, KR808 starter kits that people commonly start out using.

I'm very sorry that you've had so many problems with your mods. The only problems I've had with mine are that two of the adapter caps for my Indulgence wouldn't screw on. No big deal. I emailed the vendor and they sent replacements. I probably won't even use one of the caps, but if I ever decide to sell it I want everything to work.

The button on my Chameleon can be kind of sticky sometimes. Again, no big deal. I emailed Issac and he's going to clean it out and replace it for me since I'm not comfortable doing it myself. If needed, he'll replace the button section.

I don't see these as huge, glaring problems so much as normal bumps in the road. I've never really had a poor customer service problem from any of the vendors I've dealt with so far. Every single one has gone out of their way to make things right when needed and been very polite, helpful and even apologetic.

I'm not talking about service. As I stated previously, I think the service is outstanding. I'm talking about product quality. PVs are, in general, very simple devices. There's nothing about them that's ground breaking in terms of manufacturing and design. Switches, anodizing, electrical circuits, even more complex circuits like VV are nothing new. We're taking existing technology and adapting it to a new product. We shouldn't feel that these normal bumps in the road are to be expected and accepted.

The first few times I had these problems, I shrugged them off. Now, after experiencing several problems from several manufacturers, I'm tired of dumping hundreds of dollars into purchases and being disappointed about some aspect of every one of them.

If this just happened to me, so be it. I've just had bad luck. I don't think that is the case though. I think people are accepting these things as normal bumps in the road because they have no other options. If that's the case, here's our chance to speak out and have our voices be heard.

 

[BiffRocko]

These guys out to make a buck from modding in their basement changed the industry by proving demand for higher wattage and we ended up with the eGo in mass production.

I think that the real problem is the hype that surrounds some mods can build expectations of the mod that the mod really can't live up to.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of those comments. I also know how easy it can be to get an SBA loan to obtain working capital and do things right.

I'd also say that the problems I've experienced haven't been due to hype, but more to a lack of QC or a poor order fulfillment process.

 

[addisdaddy07]

Even with all the advances in the e-cig world today, it is still a cottage industry. This is TRULY a consumer driven marketplace with the great majority of mods being produced purpose-built to meet SOMEONES specific need. Those whom you call "manufacturers" are usually one or two people building these things either individually or in small batches. Personally I applaud all the hard work and diligence of those modders who have taken their ideas to the next level and made them available for others.

 

[BiffRocko]

Even with all the advances in the e-cig world today, it is still a cottage industry. This is TRULY a consumer driven marketplace with the great majority of mods being produced purpose-built to meet SOMEONES specific need. Those whom you call "manufacturers" are usually one or two people building these things either individually or in small batches. Personally I applaud all the hard work and diligence of those modders who have taken their ideas to the next level and made them available for others.

That's precisely how I'd rate the current state of the industry. That's why I'm posting this topic. These one or two people businesses have proven they have a sellable product and a market to purchase them. In my opinion, it's time to write a solid business plan, apply for a loan and/or find investors, and grow up as a business. The industry is poised for this move and those who make it will be around in five years time. Those who don't, won't.