It's time for the ecig industry and consumers to get involved

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stylemaster2001

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Why do Democratic senators continue to target e-cigarettes? @greggutfeld is taking on the e-cig haters tonight. #TheFive

Gregg G on The Five just "went off" on Dem senators about how it IS NOT about "saving the kids" but about the tax revenues....very good piece. (and he was vaping on tv while reporting on it and Dana Perino said it did NOT bother her when the smoke went towards her!!!) Yay. ((I retweeted this to all my people also))
 

zoiDman

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Thank you all for the messages of support.

I've been discussing this proposal directly with SmokeyJoe (ECF Founder) and we're working on multiple possible avenues to pursue this initiative. Give us a few days to work out the details and we'll post an update when a path forward becomes more clear.

Great Good DrMA.
 

DrMA

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We are still working on this initiative. As you can imagine, there are many parts that go into organizing something like this, and funding is the final piece. Among the other moving parts that need to fit well together are figuring out contracting mechanisms, conceptualizing the the scope, objectives, and methods for the report, and finding an appropriate person to do the work.

Progress so far: our efforts to find an appropriate scientist to perform this review have recently moved into positive territory. It turns out it's quite difficult to find someone who meets our criteria, among which the most important I would cite are:
1) has the necessary skills, experience, and qualification; a recognized expert in the health field
2) does not have conflicts of interest (no long-term business relationships with BP, BT, or regulatory agencies)
3) is not biased by personal beliefs, professional peer pressure, or a long-term involvement on any side of the tobacco debate
4) is willing to get into the ugliness of the current tobacco debate
 

BigEgo

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Here is the executive summary with my thoughts on each part:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
• E-cigarettes are evolving rapidly and being marketed like cigarettes were in the 1950s and
1960s

Yeah, so?

o Marketing is back on television and radio

Yeah, so? Is it bad that e-cigs (that have helped many people quit analogs) are being advertised? The last time I checked, Chantix, nicotine patches and nicotine gum were routinely advertised on T.V., radio, print and the Internet.

o Aggressive placement in convenience stores (next to candy) and in other stores (next
to medications)

It's the old "save the children" argument. Whenever someone uses the "children" or the "terrorists" excuse, you usually know they are pushing an agenda. Bush and Obama use "the terrorists" to erode our civil liberties (NSA spying, warrantless wiretaps, etc.) and a lot of people with other agendas (banning firearms, banning fast food, banning soda, banning e-cigs) typically break out the "save the children" argument. After all, what kind of upstanding citizen could be for the terrorists or against the children?!

• Youth are rapidly adopting e-cigarettes

Evidence? Everyone I have seen in my area smoking an e-cig is almost certainly an adult. None of the B&M stores where I live allow children inside. Granted, this is anecdotal, but I have yet to see any studies that prove widespread adoption among youth. Are youth using e-cigs? Most certainly. Is it on the level of those that use traditional tobacco? The jury is still out. Would it be better if they bought e-cigs instead of a pack of Marlboros? Most definitely.

o E-cigarettes contain candy flavors (e.g., cherry, chocolate, turkish delight)

Yeah, so? Are we supposed to be forced to NOT enjoy our e-cigs?

o High levels of dual use

Again it's anecdotal, but I was a 2 pack a day smoker for 15 years. I have not touched one cigarette since the day I bought my e-cig kit. There are thousands of such stories as mine floating around by people who are now e-cig users.

o Youth who use e-cigarettes are heavier (not lighter) smokers

Perhaps some of these youth will give up tobacco cigs and adopt e-cigs as a replacement. Is this ideal? No. Is it better than smoking Marlboros? Yes.

o The temporal and causal relationships between e-cigarette use and smoking have not
been determined

So we are using the argument that e-cigs are a "gateway" to analogs? This is laughable.

• E-cigarettes have not been proven to help people quit smoking

Perhaps there are no good long-term studies, but the anecdotal evidence and surveys point in the other direction, and rather strongly.

o Longitudinal population studies show that e-cigarette use is associated with a lower
odds of quitting

I doubt this, but we'll see.

o The randomized trial comparing e-cigarettes to nicotine patch shows that in the
context of low level behavioral support, the quit rate for those using e-cigarettes is
low and similar to those using a nicotine patch

Again, extremely doubtful. There needs to be more studies on bigger populations and having those people utilize better equipment (i.e. higher powered devices and not convenience store e-cigs).

• There is a high level of dual use of e-cigarettes and conventional cigarettes among adults

Some people do continue to smoke. A lot of people who still smoke have cut down their traditional cigarette use dramatically. Many people quit smoking entirely. Even if there is some dual use, are the people who have quit smoking completely because of e-cigs to be "punished?" Are we to scare away other smokers who could benefit (even if only a fraction of them succeed?).

• The hope that e-cigarettes will reduce harm by delivering "clean" nicotine will not be
realized in continuing dual users

Yeah, but what about the many former smokers who are not dual users? Are they to be left out in the cold?

• E-cigarettes deliver lower levels of toxins than conventional cigarettes, but they still deliver
some toxins

What toxins? Of course there are a lot of variables (quality control of juice, where it's made, who makes it, what ingredients are used, etc.) I have seen a few papers written on the chemical composition of e-liquid and in every case the level of toxins when compared to a traditional cigarette aren't even remotely close. Indeed, in most cases, the level of "toxins" are well within the EPA standards for safe ingestion. Nicotine by itself is very little of a risk (outside of large quantities ingested quickly). PG and VG are not short term risks (long-term is still an open question). Flavorings are a more interesting question and there needs to be more research on what sorts of flavors carry the least risk for inhalation.

• E-cigarettes pollute the air less than conventional cigarettes, but they pollute the air
o They do not just emit "harmless water vapor"

Yes, they pollute the air with propelyne glycol and glycerin vapor -- two of the most benign dilutants known to mankind. Both have been studied extensively for decades and both are considered GRAS by the FDA. PG is used in IV drips, in medications as a dilutant (i.e. benzodiazepines), as well as in asthma inhalers. Indeed, the FDA approved nicotine inhaler uses PG as the dilutant. Glycerine is used in many household skin care products. Of course, there is some question as to the long-term effects of inhalation of both of these compounds, which is where more research money needs to go.

• People passively exposed to e-cigarettes aerosol absorb nicotine (measured as cotinine), with
one study showing levels comparable to passive smokers

Which study? I have seen studies that come to the opposite conclusion (the nicotine level in the air was almost immeasurable).

• There is little research on direct health effects
o One study shows short-term pulmonary effects

A much disputed study with questionable clinical significance. Other studies have shown that the cytotoxicity of e-liquid is almost nil (depending on the liquid tested). Again, it is an open question as to what the long-term effects are, but can we not agree it is almost certainly much less of a risk than long-term tobacco smoking?

o Evidence of cytotoxicity in animal and human in vitro test systems

Perhaps you should read the actual paper. The cytotoxicity was extremely low (and it varied depending on the liquid tested, which brings us back to quality control and standards which need to be established).

• While the original e-cigarette companies were competing with conventional cigarette
companies, all the major cigarette companies are now in the e-cigarette business

• E-cigarette companies are using the same political and public relations strategies as cigarette
companies (most notably organizing users, similar to how the cigarette companies organized
smokers)

I am an e-cig proponent and have never been "organized" by any corporation, nor has any other advocate I know. It's an insult to every e-cig user to suggest that somehow we are too stupid to make up our own minds about the issue.

• E-cigarette policy making in many countries is dominated by assumptions about their use
(utility as a smoking cessation aid or for harm reduction) that are not supported by the
evidence available to date

I think the evidence is very strong that e-cigs help people quit smoking. The question is the success rate. Even if the success rate is as dismal as FDA approved nicotine patches and gum, isn't that enough to allow e-cigs to exist as an alternative for those who wish to try it?

At minimum, these policies should be implemented immediately:
• Prohibit the use of e-cigarettes anywhere where the use of conventional cigarettes is
prohibited

Why? What evidence is there that e-cigs are harmful to bystanders? (Hint: there is none). The use of e-cigs in an establishment should be the choice of the proprietor and not the government.

• Apply the same restrictions on e-cigarette advertising and promotion as apply to conventional
cigarettes

So that current smokers will stay hooked on conventional cigarettes or keep wasting hundreds of dollars on patches that don't work? It seems your plan will only help "big tobacco" for which you have so much disdain.

• Ban the use of characterizing flavors in e-cigarettes

Once again, we are back to the "save the children" scare tactics. If the kiddies see those sweet and fruity flavors, they will just have to try them! As a result we should force all *adults* who use e-cigs to be stuck with one or two bland flavors. And God forbid that parents have any input or control of their children. It must be up to the government to save them all!

• Prohibit claims that e-cigarettes are effective smoking cessation aids until such time as there
is convincing scientific evidence that such claims are true for e-cigarettes as they are actually
used in the general population.

I can agree with this. We need more studies about the efficacy of e-cigs as a smoking cessation device. The anecdotal evidence (surveys) is strong, but we need more thorough studies. Until that time, e-cigs should be marketed as an "alternative to smoking" with "likely harm reduction."

• Regulate e-cigarettes to set standards for product performance in order to minimize risks to
users and bystanders

I agree, but most of this effort should be put on the juice manufacturers. That is the "portion" that goes into the lungs and is the portion that will have the most impact on health. We need things like certified labs that meet strict sanitary conditions, randomized health inspections, proper labeling, regulation of ingredients, etc. I don't know of many e-cig users who are opposed to common sense safety guidelines and regulations.
 

zoiDman

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...

Progress so far: our efforts to find an appropriate scientist to perform this review have recently moved into positive territory. It turns out it's quite difficult to find someone who meets our criteria, among which the most important I would cite are:

1) has the necessary skills, experience, and qualification; a recognized expert in the health field
2) does not have conflicts of interest (no long-term business relationships with BP, BT, or regulatory agencies)
3) is not biased by personal beliefs, professional peer pressure, or a long-term involvement on any side of the tobacco debate
4) is willing to get into the ugliness of the current tobacco debate

I can see how it would be hard to Find someone who meets those Four basic Criteria.

Especially when a person who Qualifies with #4 Usually Implies that a Person has #3. It sounds like what might be the Best Fit is a "Pure Researcher".

I have read some of this persons works...

Stephen Wilson Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Psychology - Penn State

Department of Psychology

Perhaps if he was Contacted he could Help you in Finding a Suitable Candidate for what you are seeking. On the Surface he seems to be more interested in Science than in promoting an Agenda one ay or Another.

But I could be Wrong so take it for what it is Worth. A Casual Observation.
 
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DrMA

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Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

Farsalinos is not a good candidate, because he's already involved in the fundamental research of ecigs.

Wilson is a psychologist and likely has little or no qualifications to speak towards the physiological or health risks associated with the devices. He might be a good co-author when it comes to discussing the psychological effects, the "gateway" argument, and other aspects relating to addiction.

We do have a candidate in mind for the lead role on this report. I'm going to interview this candidate tomorrow and try to establish if the 4 conditions from above are met, as well as other, more mundane aspects of our relationship such as legal, liability, contracting... This person is an expert in the health field, has a PhD in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, nearly 20 yrs of consulting experience in pulmonary pathology and toxicology, and has provided litigation and regulatory consulting in regard to drug and alcohol use.
 
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