Just ordered a bunch of stuff from FlavourArts :-) (Questions thread...)

[Tor]

Hi all,
Got some good advice in my thread in the New Members Forum, which ended out in the following FA order:

Heaven juice 36 mg Ice Blade
Propylene glycole USP
15 x Pipettes - Polythene 3 ml
20 x bottles LDPE dropper - 5 ml

MTS Vape Wizard flavor
Bitter Wizard flavor

Anise flavor
Banana flavor
Brandy flavor
Cherry, black flavor
Cocoa flavor
Coffe espresso flavor
Cream fresh flavor
Licorice flavor
Menthol artic flavor
tobacco flavor Dark Vapure
Tobacco flavor Latakia
Watermelon flavor
Whisky flavor

So now I will move over here and ask questions in this thread when they arise.

I will most likely mix without VG, or in very low percentages, as I don't really like the sweet taste. Or see if the bitter wizard is able to rid it. Tons of vapor is not that important to me as the taste and sensation. In fact I would prefer a more stealth vape.

I will be mixing my flavors in 5 ml PG solutions to make dosage more precise in the final juice. E.g. for a tobacco like Dark Vapure, FA recommend 1% solution. I will then mix 1/2 ml to 4.5 ml PG. In the final liquid I can then use 10% of my mix to get the desired 1%. For flavors that require 2% then 1 ml to 4, for 3% then 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 and so on. That way I always have to use 10% flavor mix for my final liquid.

I guess I can fairly accurate measure 1/2 ml both for the making of the flavor mix, and the final mixes I would make in 5 ml bottles as well where the 10% would then also equal 1/2 ml.

So for the first couple of questions:

1) Does it have any noticeable pre-steeping effect to mix the flavor the way i described? That would of course be a benefit as well.

2) When mixing more than one flavor at a time, and FA e.g. recommends 2% of the flavorings. Should I then use half the flavor, 1%, because I use 2 flavors? Or stay a 2% of each that I will end up with a total of 4% combined flavor? (I mean as a general guideline - I am sure that it depends how dominant I want each flavor). But should I use less of each when mixing many flavors?

 

[upStomp]

1. I'd avoid pre-mixing the way you describe. For one, you don't know if 1-2% is going to be enough flavoring for you, and you're kind of handcuffing yourself by diluting it so much. I've found that most Vape Wizard flavorings work best at around 5%, regardless of FA's recommendations. I believe the nicotine is needed for proper steeping anyway. Part of the draw of FA flavors is that they're more concentrated than others.

The only pre-mixing I do is with the nic and PG/VG. Right now, I mix 100mg PG nic down to a 50/50 mixture of 20mg nic. I then use that base to quickly create my flavored concoctions in 5-6ml batches. All I have to do is drip X number of drops of each flavor into my 6ml bottles and top off with my base, give a good shake, and steep - at least overnight.

2. I'm still in the process of answering that exact same question for myself. So far, indications are that you'll need close to the full concentration to get the flavor you're looking for. For example, if 5% Dark Vapure tastes good to you and 5% Chocolate tastes good to you, you'll need close or equal to 5% of each, for a total of 10% flavoring to get your "Choco-Baccy" mix right. Otherwise you'll find yourself with a muddled, watery mix. Again, that's only based on my preliminary experiments. Someone more experienced than me should be along any minute to slam my theory .

All my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Tor]

Thanks for the advice. The reason is to make it more precise and consistent that it is re-produceable, if I make something I (hopefully) like.

I will think about how to get around the issue if the advised percentages are not sufficient. Maybe make a base juice like you say to play around with at first and then later decide for the percentage of my flavor mixes.

Thanks for the second answer too. This was exactly what I was looking for.

 

[keelalagirl55]

As long as you keep good notes and record of what you are mixing you will be able to reproduce it without any premixing....not sure if you got these or not, but here are 2 calculators that are excellent and you can easily keep track of what you have made that was a success and will be able to reproduce it....

eJuice Me Up - e-Juice e-Liquid Recipe Calculator
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-calculator-added-quantity-calculations.html

on the second one, use the link in the op's signature...it will be the most up to date version of the calculator.....they both are DIY lifesavers!!!

 

[Tor]

Thanks for the links. Just got an e-mail that my order is being prepared and will be shipped soon.

So, I just dry burned my atomizers to make sure everything is en working order when it arrives.

 

[Tor]

I received my stuff from FlavourArt today.

Preparing took quite a long time. But they do advice about that on their site. Shipping on the other hand was super fast. I had expected a box and was quite surprised how compact my shipment was.

Two bubble lined envelopes and inside a plastic bag.

Checked and sorted out. All perfect. I did order 3 ml pipettes (smallest available on their site) but received 1 ml. Quite happy about that error, since this was the size I would have ordered if it had been available. The confusion probably stems from the print "3M" on top of the pipette.



I immediately went to work and decided to mix like I previously described that I would. Started out with mixing 1 ml Dark Vapure to 4 ml PG. Shake and put in warm water. For a nice manageable 20% solution.

In another bottle:
2 ml 36mg "Ice Blade" (100% PG)
1 ml VG (or AG to be precise, from TW)
1 1/2 ml PG
1/2 ml Dark Vapure solution from above.

Should give a 20/80 VG/PG with 2% Dark Vapure and 14,4mg Nic.

Cleaned my eGo-T atomizer by taking apart, blowing, rinsing, blowing and dry burn - then put back together (takes 3 mins). It's mod'ed with 63my rolled up oxidized wire mesh to replace the wick (had to since I broke the wick). Fresh cart.





(I am a beginner so the below opinion is based on limited experience.)
Vaped and WOW. This stuff is gooood. With 20 VG it's quite limited vapor and it disappears quickly (good for work and public places). The nic hit is extraordinary. I only tried 16 and 11mg previously and I definitely feel a better hit than with the 16mg. 5-8 inhalations and I had to put it down.

I am a beginner so I may never have tasted really good pre-made liquids. But it's a lot better than what I tried before (TW Black Label Marlb and a few Dekang liquids).

 

[Tor]

Now I have been vaping the mixture I made for a few hours and I must say that I find the vapor lacks. Since I already have 20% VG in there I would have expected more vapor, since I know a lot of premixes use 20/80.

So what is missing? Water perhaps? Is that helping vapor production or is it only to thin out VG?
If it does help, to what extent do you guys use water? Or should I go with Vodka/PGA?

 

[Zal42]

Water perhaps? Is that helping vapor production or is it only to thin out VG?
If it does help, to what extent do you guys use water? Or should I go with Vodka/PGA?

I never add water. It doesn't help with vapor production, nor will alcohol. To up your vapor, increase the amount of vg in your mix (many people use 50/50) or use a low resistance or higher voltage atty.

 

[Tor]

Thanks. I'll skip the water.

What is the purpose of PGA, other than to this VG instead of water?
Does it add significant throat hit? In what percentages is it usually used?

About my progress. I mixed the Latakia same procedure as the Dark Vapure. I found that it made better vapor. So I blew out the atomizer of where I vape the Dark Vapure and it improved. So I guess that I have to remember the whole picture.

I like the Latakia as well. I mixed the two liquids I made together in a cart just by eyeballing 1:1. Even better then the two separate! I choose these two because I though they would compliment each other well, judged from the "sensorial flavour chart" on FlavourArt's website. The cocoa/dry Dark Vapure goes perfect with the woody/smokey Latakia. Highly recommended.

As an experiment I added 1 drop menthol to the cart (1ml eGo-T cart/tank) with now 1:1 Latakia/Dark Vapure. Perfect flavor initially, the menthol not really "visible" but giving a nice cool feeling on the thong and the roof of the mouth. After a while when it really mixed in the menthol flavor became a bit too dominant and more like a (mild) menthol cigarette. Still very enjoyable flavor, menthol will be part of the mix in the future, though in a lower concentration.

This is great fun!

 

[Zal42]

What is the purpose of PGA, other than to this VG instead of water?
Does it add significant throat hit? In what percentages is it usually used?

If I need to thin vg, I use pg. I've never needed to thin it more than pg can do, but if I did, I'd probably use water, up to a point. I've read people here saying that they've thinned vg with water successfully using up to around 10% (although that seems like a lot to me).

PGA is used to make the juice a bit rougher, analagous to throat hit, that many people enjoy. For "real" th, nicotine and vg both do a better job of that, imo. I'm not a fan of adding pga to juices, because I can usually smell the alcohol on the exhale -- although there are one or two juices I've tried for which that effect actually makes the experience better, so it depends on the recipe. As to how much, you might start with a drop per 2 ml of juice and adjust from there.

I don't use tobacco absolute, so I shouldn't comment on that, but I've read the it needs to be dissolved in pga to be used in juices.

Those (taste and ta) are the only reasons that I know of to use pga in a juice.

 

[Zal42]

As an experiment I added 1 drop menthol to the cart (1ml eGo-T cart/tank) with now 1:1 Latakia/Dark Vapure. Perfect flavor initially, the menthol not really "visible" but giving a nice cool feeling on the thong and the roof of the mouth. After a while when it really mixed in the menthol flavor became a bit too dominant and more like a (mild) menthol cigarette. Still very enjoyable flavor, menthol will be part of the mix in the future, though in a lower concentration.

Oh, I forgot to comment on this. 1 drop per ml is WAY too much, imo. As you've discovered, menthol is very strong stuff. You need surprisingly little of it -- however, it takes time to reach full strength in a juice. If you use it, be sure to let the juice age for a few days, at least, before deciding if you've got the right amount. There are a few other flavors that do this too, such as cinnamon.

 

[Tor]

I'll forget about PGA for now as well.

The menthol was just an experiment because I was curious. It is actually not overpowering - like a mild menthol analog. It will not have time to steep, since I already vaped half of it

For future mixes I don't want to actually have a menthol taste, just a wee tiny bit of a hint.
I will keep in mind that the strength increase with steeping when I use it for real in mixes.
Thanks again!

 

[MaxUT]

Thought I'd describe my latest batch of tobacco-flavored juice.

First of all, I pre-mix any VG that I'm going to use, both plain and VG nic. I make about 120 mL of each by diluting the VG with 10-20% distilled water, depending on its thckness. I calculate strength for the nic and label the bottle with the new concentration; my latest batch didn't need much water so it came out to 42 mg/mL strength.

18.9 mL . . . 63% . . . 42mg VG nic (88% 48mg VG / 12% DW)
9.0 mL . . . . 30% . . . VG (80% VG / 20% DW)
2.1 mL . . . . 7% . . . . FlavourArt Shade tobacco

I mixed this batch on February 12. I've been sampling a couple of drops every Saturday since then, but it's only been today that I considered the taste to be tolerable. That's four weeks of steeping. I think it still needs a couple more weeks before it will taste its best, but it's usable now as a base for flavoured tobacco recipes (e.g.: tobacco/honey/nut).

Several factors affected the steeping time here:
- VG base typically requires more time (although premixing the liquid with water should have helped)
- relatively large quantity of 30 mL
- average temperature of 68F / 20C

 

[mwa102464]

I never have to steep my juice mixes more than 3-4 days max, I find if I make a mix I really like it is ready in that time frame.

 

[Tor]

7% flavor sounds like a lot. It it normal that a pure VG bare requires that much flavor compared to e.g. an 20%VG mix?

I am considering to make my next mixes 40% VG instead of 20%. How much should I expect that I need to increase the flavor in percent to achieve the same taste?

 

[Zal42]

7% flavor sounds like a lot. It it normal that a pure VG bare requires that much flavor compared to e.g. an 20%VG mix?

I am considering to make my next mixes 40% VG instead of 20%. How much should I expect that I need to increase the flavor in percent to achieve the same taste?

7% isn't so much, really. I have some flavors (such as a cream soda) that need to go above 20% to be fully realized! At the other extreme, clove needs tiny amounts, 1% or less. The amount of flavoring you need can vary wildly depending on the exact flavor and manufacturer, but most of them seem to be right in the 10% neighborhood (10% is where I start when I'm finding the right percentage for a new flavoring.) I generally use 20% vg.

VG doesn't carry flavor as well as pg, so in theory the higher the percentage of vg you use, the more flavoring you need. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with different pg/vg ratios, though, so I don't really know how much more flavoring you'd need for how much more vg.

 

[Tor]

For a FA tobacco flavor I think it sounds like a lot considering they recommend no more than 2.5%.
I tried two, both at 2% in 20% VG, and I don't think I would like the taste if it was any stronger. So that was the reason for the question, if it's normal that 100% VG will require that much more flavoring?

 

[MaxUT]

7% flavor sounds like a lot. It it normal that a pure VG bare requires that much flavor compared to e.g. an 20%VG mix?

I am considering to make my next mixes 40% VG instead of 20%. How much should I expect that I need to increase the flavor in percent to achieve the same taste?

I like bold tobacco flavors. I used to smoke Drum, Bali Red and McClintock rolling tobacco, all of which are vastly more flavorful than American cigarettes. 7% tobaccco flavor barely begins to produce "real tobacco taste" for my preference. Virginia is still smooth at this concentration and if you really like tobacco flavor, you should give it a try. Just allow at least 4 weeks for steeping to get the proper taste.

Actually, using VG doesn't require much extra flavoring. I think the main difference is that flavoring does not seem to disperse as quickly throughout a VG base, making it seem that the VG has hidden the flavor, because most people do not allow for more steeping time. I would try increasing the flavoring percentage by 2%; that should be enough to cover any difference.