Just "quit" yesterday

[Steveburger]

So I have been knocking around the idea of quitting, and the e-cigarette seemed like the best idea for me. I tried lozenges but I have a tendency to fiddle with a cigarette before, during, and after I smoke so I kept reaching for one which lead to me smoking again. I tried patches, but I still get those bigger urges, and would forget about the patch and start smoking again. The only thing that worked for a little while (and this might sound stupid) was telling myself "why do I want a cigarette? I don't smoke anymore." That for some odd reason seemed to work pretty well for a month or so, and then I ended up getting right back into smoking again.

Well it's been 10 years now, and I've finally decided it's time to give up this smoking crap! Unfortunately like many others, I was new to the e-cig thing and had no real idea what I was getting into. I don't know anyone who uses them, and I didn't do my homework properly by researching online. What I did do, though, was blow $150 on a starter kit at a local mall. I knew I was more than likely getting ripped off in a big way, but my desire to quit pushed past logical reasoning and I figured to myself "It's right here in front of me, just buy it and quit TODAY!". Besides, whats the difference? All these e-cigs are basically the same thing with a different company name stamped on them... right?

Wrong.

I couldn't be more wrong, actually. It's just a shame that I wasn't aware of this until after I made the purchase and my product is non-refundable. Fool me once, shame on me. So now I'm waiting until I can afford a new e-cig but the problem is, which one? With so many variables and variations, its rather daunting just looking through all the sources available on this forum. So this is a little bit of info about my experience for those who are still reading, and a few questions to follow up for those who are willing to help a new e-cig user.

I smoke on average, a pack a day. My normal brand is Marlboro 27's but I also enjoy Camel Turkish Royals. I used to smoke 2 packs a day of Marlboro Reds but I had to cut back when I got deployed because it was just too difficult to get cigs in that quantity out where I was at.

The e-cig I got is called "Smoke to Live" which I found out after I made the purchase that it's a rename of "Smoke Everywhere". I believe it is the KR808 model though I could be mistaken. When I inhale a cigarette, I draw into my mouth, pull the cig from my lips, inhale the smoke I drew in, and then exhale. I do this because normal straight inhaling burns my lungs and throat. When I do this (it is habit at this point) with the e-cig, the vapor is very light and whispy. Also, the "hit" feels more like I'm inhaling liquid, because it sticks to the back of my throat. Its a feeling I can only describe to smokers as the first drag from a morning cig. The feeling is... ticklish? but that is a constant with the e-cig.

The "cartomizer" is a 16mg one, and I've been using the same one for... about a day now, probably smoked 10-15 cigarettes worth from it (I hit a normal cig about 10 times when smoking, so I use this to gauge the consumption of the e-cig cartomizer thing). The problem is, it only really quiets my urge for a period of time. Where I used to smoke every 30 minutes, now I'm smoking every 3 hours when the urge gets so bad I can't think straight. This is a HUGE improvement for me, but I don't know if this is how it is supposed to work or not.


So now some questions:

Is the vapor from a quality e-cig comparable to the smoke exhaled from a normal drag on a normal cigarette?

Does that ticklish feeling when inhaling mean I am doing something wrong, or do others experience that as well?

Did anyone else have those huge urges like I experience every 3 hours, when they first started, or is that an indicator that I need a higher nicotine amount from the cartomizer?

Is there any way I can salvage my purchase by buying components from other companies so I don't have to keep spending money on the insane prices of Smoke to Live? (A pack of 5 cartomizers costs $25 through them. I'll just go back to smoking if that's my only option).

Also, any technical info on what model I've got, and what parts I should be looking for or who provides them would be amazing. These things really are much more complicated that I had originally thought, and as money is an issue currently, I can't afford another ridiculous expense.

Thank you in advance for your time and any helpful advice or tips! =)

 

[Nicko]

Welcome to ECF! That's a great introduction you wrote.

I don't know anything about the brand you bought, but it was way too expensive. If it is a KR808, then you are in luck because that's a very popular model of e-cig. There are many trusted forum suppliers that sell parts for that.

In case you didn't know, cartos are refillable. You can just vape to your heart's content all day and it's very inexpensive.

It sounds like you are doing something wrong as far as getting only whispy vapor and juice coming out. You should be getting tons of vapor and no juice.

More members will be along to help you soon. I'm not at all well tonight.

 

[Renzuli]

Well , first off , Welcome to the forums , secondly , you don't inhale , anything like you did ,with cigs , the draw into your mouth , then inhale , etc. is the correct method . From smoking full flavored cigs. 16mg may not be enough for you , yet . You might have to step it up , to 24mg . to get the satisfaction , your looking for . Then after a while , you can slowly ween yourself , back to 16 , 12 , 6 and then hopefully 0 nic. content . But that's a ways off , so don't even think about that , right now . Just know , you did good , by quitting cigs , and that eventually , you'll be an old pro at it , and answering other noobs , questions .

 

[Nicko]

You also need to know that vaping is an alternative to smoking. I was smoking two packs a day and completely switched to vaping when my first kit arrived. Some may choose to wean down to 0mg nicotine, but I stick with 24mg because I like it. In the meantime, there is no reason for you to be going 3 hours without a drag. That's just pointless torture. Vaping is a wonderful pleasure and you should be enjoying it.

 

[Steveburger]

I can't get the "Link Image" button to work, so here's the link to a picture I took a few minutes ago. Hopefully this helps with the identification of what model I have and what components I could use to make the best of this thing. =)


http://postimage.org/image/296p28l5w/


Also just for clarification, I have a real cigarette (I guess you guys call them "analogs"?) every 3 hours, but I use the e-cig in between as a substitute. Comparatively, an analog every 3 hours is MUCH better than my usual analog every 30 minutes, but "quit" means no lighters, no analog, no trips to the gas station at 2am, zip nada nothing. 16mg is the strongest nicotine concentration Smoke to Live provides (That's a really stupid company name).

 

[Nicko]

I can't see the picture. Where did you get the idea that it's a KR808?

 

[Nicko]

I looked at the smoke to live website. It could be a KR808 that you have. You can buy empty cartos for those very inexpensively and there are limitless choices of juice in hundreds of flavors and nic strengths.

Don't worry about a thing! Quitting smoking is very easy using an e-cig. You have only just taken the first step into vaping. There is much that you will learn in the coming days and weeks. We were all new to this once.

 

[markfm]

24mg is pretty standard strength for someone who smoked full flavor cigs, with some needing a 30 or 36 mg. 16 is definitely light -- when I first vaped that's what I tried, and while it help me cut down it definitely wasn't enough to quit smoking. With 24 I was good most of the time, though found it nice to have a bit of higher strength for specific craving points (like just after waking up).

The urges are typical due to not enough nicotine. Coming off cigs you are used to getting fast freebase nicotine (from added chemicals in cigs), normal nicotine, and Carbon Monoxide (a lot of the "rush" of a fast puff is oxygen starvation ). Cigs also contain things called MAOIs, chemicals that slow the breakdown of dopamine in the brain (the feel-good effect of nicotine is because it gets your brain to release dopamine).

Switching to vaping it is normal to want to vape more often than you smoked (no MAOI), though just upping the nic level will generally help. I think it took me maybe a week or two to detox off of the other stuff, so just the vaping nicotine was fine for me (this was vastly easier than any prior attempt to stop smoking, including patches and welbutrin).

It sounds like you might have an RN4081, not a KR808D-1, based on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/153261-smoke-live-brand.html I'm not sure, that's just what a quick ECF search showed. My first kit was a 4081, too I found ECF a couple days after I got it.

For a full PAD smoker, if you don't sweat something that doesn't look like a cigarette, a fat battery Riva 510 kit is a good bet. Liberty Flights often has their Riva Lite bundles at just over $30 for a 2 battery kit, after their standard october20 20% off discount code. I'd personally add a pack or 2 of Boge 2 ohm (LR, low resistance) 510 cartomizers -- I'm strictly a carto user (different people like different things). Then pick up an ounce or two of 24 mg/ml liquid, tobacco or menthol, whatever -- early on it's more important to get the right strength of liquid, in a flavor that's "good enough", than to muck about too much with flavors. You're looking at around $60 - $70 total, including the couple packs of cartos and couple 30ml bottles of eliquid.

If you really need/want cigarette form factor (skinny tube), and/or really want automatic (Riva is a manual, little button to push to heat the liquid), then a KR808D-1 kit is decent. Vapor4life (their vaporking) is pretty good, they always have sales (see the PIF Deals and Steals thread, there's a link to PIF in my signature). Other decent 808 vendors include NHaler and vaporsetc, though any ECF Supplier selling 808 gear should be fine to deal with. I'd advise an 808 kit with 2 XL or Mega batteries -- they run longer between recharges, though not as long as a Riva by any means. With an 808 it's easy to get prefilled cartos (typically about $9 - $12 for a 5 pack of prefilled), though cheaper to buy blanks and fill your own.

An 808 kit, with initial supplies of cartos or liquid, tends to run maybe $5 - $15 more than the Riva path.

Newer generation 808 are the Volt and the Bloog Max Fusion. I haven't used them, though people who have seem to like them. I believe they command a price premium compared to standard 808 gear.

Ticklish throat is pretty common, at least early on. Drink LOTS of water when you vape -- the PG or VG is a humectant, pulls water out of you.

I'd treat that initial $150 as a chance to see there is a viable alternative to smoking. Get something else (Riva 510 or 808), keep what you have as backup or stuff to loan to friends/acquaintances who want to see what it is like. I ended up passing my initial RN4081 gear through PIF, it went to someone who needed some backup equipment and liked the 4081 (it's actually a decent PV, just overpriced often, and not a really awesome performer -- a fair number of people have run across them as their first taste of vaping).

Good luck!

 

[swedishfish]

I can't get the "Link Image" button to work, so here's the link to a picture I took a few minutes ago. Hopefully this helps with the identification of what model I have and what components I could use to make the best of this thing. =)


View image: 2011 08 04 12 30 53



Also just for clarification, I have a real cigarette (I guess you guys call them "analogs"?) every 3 hours, but I use the e-cig in between as a substitute. Comparatively, an analog every 3 hours is MUCH better than my usual analog every 30 minutes, but "quit" means no lighters, no analog, no trips to the gas station at 2am, zip nada nothing. 16mg is the strongest nicotine concentration Smoke to Live provides (That's a really stupid company name).

Increase the nicotine and you'll get off the cigs entirely. Average is 18-24 to start.


If this isn't cutting it for you, you can pick up a Joye Ego (8 hour batteries) for $30.00. Keep this as a backup.

 

[Boodle]

I typed this and the phone rang. Sorry if it's redundant with other posts.

Is the vapor from a quality e-cig comparable to the smoke exhaled from a normal drag on a normal cigarette?

A: Tar isn't carrying nicotine to your lungs when you vape. Tar is sticky and you get longer satisfaction from a cigarette since the tar has nicotine on it and it sticks to your lungs. The nic from vapor is absorbed in your mouth and nose. I don't get as prolonged effect with vapor as I did smoking, so I vape more often.

Does that ticklish feeling when inhaling mean I am doing something wrong, or do others experience that as well?

A: Draw very slowly. The harder you pull, the less satisfaction you get. You should feel the vapor starting to warm a little in a few seconds if you're doing it right. Long, slow pulls into your mouth, then inhale. Look at your ecig where the battery meets the filter. There are tiny airholes where the two parts screw together - maybe two and up to four tiny airholes. When you take a draw, cover all but one of those holes with your finger. You'll get a warmer, more satisfying hit.

Did anyone else have those huge urges like I experience every 3 hours, when they first started, or is that an indicator that I need a higher nicotine amount from the cartomizer?

A: The guy at the mall probably told you one cartomizer was equal to a pack of cigs. Not true. They told me that too when I dropped $190 for a 51Trio Kit at the mall. They're trying to get the percieved value higher so you can justify their ridiculous prices. Vape then vape some more. You probably need to go up to 24mg. Your body will tell you if you overdue it.

Is there any way I can salvage my purchase by buying components from other companies so I don't have to keep spending money on the insane prices of Smoke to Live? (A pack of 5 cartomizers costs $25 through them. I'll just go back to smoking if that's my only option).

A: I'd suggest getting 24mg juice to refill your cartomizers and spending another $45 on a Kgo kit. Egos and Rivas are good too. They're about the size of a Sharpie pen. Battery lasts all day and much more vaping satisfaction. You also need blank cartomizers. A couple of boxes will last you two weeks. Whatever supplier you buy from should have them. And you'll need juice. Hoosierecigsupply is a good choice to get a Kgo kit, cartomizers and some USA mix juice and a couple of others. Get the smallest juices possible at 18 and 24 mg. You can also go to Liberty Flights for an Ego or Riva kit. They're all pretty much the same. Kgo has more power and batt life and will save you a few dollars.

Also, any technical info on what model I've got, and what parts I should be looking for or who provides them would be amazing. These things really are much more complicated that I had originally thought, and as money is an issue currently, I can't afford another ridiculous expense.

A: You can refill the cartomizers you have with juice. Some manufacturers have started gluing pieces so you can't refill. Can you pop the top off the top with a paperclip and look inside to the filler material? If so, you can refill.

Thank you in advance for your time and any helpful advice or tips! =)

 

[izabella]

Congratulations! You are on your way!

There is a learning curve with e-cigs, but once you find the right PV and the right juices and nicotine mg's, you will enjoy vaping a lot more than what you are experiencing now.

Better e-cigs are easier to inhale and produce a lot more vapor, which will be a lot more satisfying than the wimpy vapor you're getting. Bigger batteries will last longer between charges. All of this will be a lot less expensive than what you paid - cartos, for example, are generally around $8-$11 depending on where you get them. And many vendors offer sales frequently with coupon codes so you can get stuff for even less than that. Also, if you buy juice, you can refill the cartos a few times before tossing them so you save that way, too.

A word of caution, though...trying new flavors becomes addicting, so you'll end up spending way more than you expected.

If you want the kind that look something like cigarettes, I use the Vapor4Life kits. I've read here that Smokeless Image are also great - they are the newer generation of KR808d-1's.

I'm sure others will come along and post their recommendations on bigger batteries than that. The ego and Riva kits from Liberty Flights are often recommended.

Stick with it and you will be amazed at how easy it will be to get control of your smoking habit.

 

[dragonlover]

Try this link-some pretty good info
Beginners | eCigology

 

[Nicko]

Another thing. It sounds like you "quit" before you found a decent system to replace your smokes with. If you are suffering awful withdrawls from not "smoking" then you "quit" too soon. Most of us kept smoking until we found a vaping alternative that really worked and replaced our cigs. Just take it easy and smoke cigs if you need them. Like I said, this is just the beginning and it should be an easy transition, once you get the right equipment and juice. Vaping is nothing like going cold turkey or like putting on a patch. It's a totally different thing. A very enjoyable alternative. Some people can make the transition very soon, others may take a few weeks. Meantime we are all here to help you.

 

[Steveburger]

You all have been extremely helpful, and I'm very grateful for all of this excellent information!

I tried drawing in slower from the e-cig and it definitely does improve that "pre-inhale" satisfaction (It actually made me cough, I wasn't expecting that kind of result!). the warmth and consistency are very similar to my analog experience. The one I've got has 2 holes at the point where the cartridge meets the battery, so I tried plugging one with my thumb but I can't feel a difference on the draw. It's possible that I'm drawing slow enough where there isn't much of a difference anyway between 2 open holes or 1.

I was looking into the juices and found some tips on how to refill cartomizers on youtube, one of which was by "DoctorVapor". It was rather nice knowing that I could reuse my cartomizers, and hearing it here from y'all as well definitely made me feel better about the purchase. I got rather excited when I saw some of the DIY mixing kits, but I don't want to get ahead of myself just yet. I still need to find a e-cig that preforms a bit better, that way I can use this current one as a back-up as mentioned.

I'm looking through the different suggested e-cigs (Is that what a PV is?) to get a better feel for the models. I think this purchase has me a bit scared about dropping another $30-50 on a unit that potentially isn't much better than what I've currently got. I really have no scale to judge them on and that makes this initial process much more difficult.


Another question that has popped up while I've been looking into everything you guys have mentioned, is bottle size and consumption. I do feel like I'm "vaping" more than I used to smoke, but how much really does that consume in ml? I guess a better way of wording that would be; If I buy a standard caromizer that already has juice in it, about how many ml of juice would be in it? That way I can say "yeah this cartomizer lasted me X days, so I consume X ml a day". I just don't want to buy 10ml of fluid and find out it lasts me 6 hours, or would that last me a week? Yet another thing I have no scale to judge by.


Thanks again everyone, you've all been super helpful and I appreciate each and every response. Not only am I learning from what you have to say, but it's very supportive and comforting knowing there are people out there willing to sacrifice a few minutes of their day to make this entire transition that much more smooth for me.

 

[Nicko]

We are all friends here. We've all been through exactly what you are going through.

For a heavy smoker you need 3-4 mls a day. I suggest 24mg nicotine. Cartos are easy to refill. But they don't last forever. The ones I've been using can be refilled for about three days and then they are dead. Just chuck 'em. It's cheaper than smoking.

Also know that this is an industry in it's infancy and the technology is improving very rapidly. Every month there are new and exciting things that are invented to make vaping better and more enjoyable.

Others will chime in with better suggestions. Whatever, just don't lose heart and know that there is tons of support for you here. No question is stupid, so just ask away.

 

[Boodle]

You'll likely consume less than a teaspoon of juice per day. You can't go wrong with a Kgo, Ego or Riva PV. Ego is most popular 'fatbatt' ecig out there. Riva is a clone of Ego. Kgo is a clone with higher voltage and longer battery life. They're all made in China. You can find videos about them on YouTube. But if your PV (personal vaporizer) needs to look like an analog (regular cigarette) these won't work for you. My pref is the Kgo for more power and batt life. You need a kit, cartomizers and 18 and 24mg juice. Finding juice you enjoy is the hardest part. Good luck.

Video: ‪K-GO : DUAL COIL CARTOMIZERS‬‏ - YouTube

 

[markfm]

A standard sized cartomizer, with a good fill, is about 1 ml of eliquid. Ranges 20 - 30 drops if you are just filling a new blank cartomizer.

I top off cartomizers pretty often, keep them wet. The cartomizers I use all have a soft rubber tip at the mouth end that pops out easily with a paperclip -- not sure if yours are like this, or have the glued-in plastic tips. If they are rubber, pop the top and tilt the carto diagonally, drip some liquid in, rotate a bit, drip,.... If they are hard plastic, use the condom fill method. At the end, bloww through the mouth end with a tissue held over the battery end, to catch any excess liquid, wipe the contacts, put it back on the PV (aka ecigarette), and you're good to go.

On liquid use, it does vary. I was a full PAD (pack a day) smoker, consistently used 3 ml a day of liquid while using the 808 or Riva models. Some people use more, some less (down towards 1.5 - 2 ml/day), but 3 is a decent budgeting number when you first start out.

The 808 or Riva 510 are simpler/cheaper to maintain -- replacement batteries run about $10 - $12, 5 packs of blank cartomizers are about $8, 5 packs of prefilled cartomizers run that $9 - $12 range. They simply have greater market penetration as generic choices. There is nothing wrong with staying with your current PV for a while, particularly if you get the hang of refilling cartos. Use the search tool here on ECF for RN4081 to see where other people have found cartomizers to use with it, at a better price point.

 

[Steveburger]

I've been looking through sites and resources and this forum all day, and I think I know what I would like. I looked over the RN4081 and the Riva 510, ego, kgo, and a few other .... really cumbersome and strange looking PVs, and I like the kgo because it's not a big massive bulky pipe-bomb device, but people all over say it has a good battery lifetime and is a quality PV for the money spent. I am still a bit murky on how the cartridge/atomizer thing works, which makes me lean heavily towards cartomizers because they are pretty simple: fill it, screw it in, vape. rinse & repeat until it goes bad.

Here's what I found, but I'm not sure if these are the right components. They say they are compatable, but I really wanted to make sure before I spend more money as I can't afford to screw it up.

The PV

The cartomizers

If those will work fine like I think they should, then it just comes down to getting some juice! I know that seems like something stupid to ask, but I would rather be safe than sorry and get cartomizers that don't fit into a PV that I then couldn't really use.

 

[ControlledChaos]

Very important! When I first quit i went through crazy chemical withdrawals. The first week or two your body gets rid off all the horrible stuff you been putting in it. You get dizzy and lightheaded, cranky and sometimes sick to your stomach. Just realize that after that week or two you'll feel amazing. Totally worth it. The e cig is not making you sick its just your body recovering. Hope this helps and wish someone told me when I quit. I thought it was the e cig doing that to me and found a super helpful post on ECF about it. GOOD LUCK AND WELCOME!!

 

[ControlledChaos]

btw most of us start with a crappy e cig. I suggest an ego or a riva to get you going and try diff flavors till you find something you like!