Just visited my doctor

[Xcighippy]

Just had a visit with my DR. for a routine yearly checkup. Last year when I saw him I mentioned I am one year off smoking and vaping instead. He said good for you, Keep it up.
This year I proudly said 2 years off ciggs. and still vaping. He gave me a stern look and said "Bad idea, Those things are as bad as cigarettes". Needless to say, I was floored. After trading results of "studies" and political agendas arguments for a while, It became obvious I wasn't going to change his mind. He finally took serious offense when I told him I thought he was doing a dis service to his patients by telling them vaping is as bad as smoking. He ended the discussion by saying "I am a doctor and study the "science" and have concluded cigarettes are bad and vaping is just as bad!"

Please arm me with counter arguments to this for my next visit. He obviously got his information somewhere he considers reputable.
Other than this disagreement, He has been a great DR whom I (used to have ) great respect for.

 

[stevegmu]

My doctor said he'd be happy if I never smoked again and only vaped, but is concerned about the flavorings and preservatives in e-liquid...

 

[NCCTC]

The "I study the science" statement is where I hit the BS button. Not trying to offend any MD's in here; but if he's in general
practice, he's probably regurgitating what the status-quo of his industry are stating; and in brief articles. He is not at the
lab "studying the science". <- enter sarcastic finger quotes
At the very least, as a care-giver, he should show concern for putting anything non-prescribed into your body. My doc
and I have had this continuing vape discussion over the last 3 years. He's not convinced because of the lack of
definitive results. However, he feels that anything (gum, lozenges, vaping) is better than "those damn cigarettes".

He's a good man; and thorough.

 

[Xcighippy]

The "I study the science" statement is where I hit the BS button. Not trying to offend any MD's in here; but if he's in general
practice, he's probably regurgitating what the status-quo of his industry are stating; and in brief articles. He is not at the
lab "studying the science". <- enter sarcastic finger quotes
At the very least, as a care-giver, he should show concern for putting anything non-prescribed into your body. My doc
and I have had this continuing vape discussion over the last 3 years. He's not convinced because of the lack of
definitive results. However, he feels that anything (gum, lozenges, vaping) is better than "those damn cigarettes".

He's a good man; and thorough.

I would have been somewhat happy if he had said what your DR said but, "as bad as smoking" really lit my fire. It was totally out of character coming from him. As we have had discussions in the past where he has stated his negative opinions on on how big pharma operates. He is not a pill pusher. Just can't understand where got his "data".

 

[NCCTC]

Yeah, it would be interesting if he could share that data with you.

 

[Xcighippy]

Yeah, it would be interesting if he could share that data with you.

He may have if I had thought to ask. I was so shocked and upset I was caught off guard and forgot to ask.

 

[Xcighippy]

My doctor said he'd be happy if I never smoked again and only vaped, but is concerned about the flavorings and preservatives in e-liquid...

This is exactly what I expected mine to say. Something caused him to do a 180 flip on the subject. You got a good DR!

 

[stevegmu]

This is exactly what I expected mine to say. Something caused him to do a 180 flip on the subject. You got a good DR!

My doctor is pretty hip. He also gives his patients a chance to correct issues with diet and exercise, rather than just prescribing prescriptions...

 

[mick500]

I think my doctors a bit of a yes man.. Went in 12 months ago when I tried vaping for the first time and I told him I was using a e cig and hadn't had a smoke for 2 weeks as he was always at me to quit.. And I asked his opinion, he said anything is better than smoking, keep it up etc, then I had a bad incident with vaping went back to smoking, saw the doc about 6 months ago and told him I was smoking again and that I was off the e cigs and he said oh no, don't use those e cigs , God knows what's in them. Lol. Makes you lose a bit of confidence I gotta say lol, will be interesting to hear what he has to say if I tell him I'm back vaping again lol.. Basically I think your local gp has less if a idea than the people here or anywhere that have actually looked in to it, and even then it's still speculation.

 

[Rickajho]

Head for CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association to find links to the research studies and data, and also for printable handout material.

 

[BigEgo]

If he is a general practitioner, I wouldn't listen to his advice on this topic. He is not an expert on the subject and he probably hasn't read the actual studies. Most clinicians do not have the time to sit around reading journal articles all day, so it's likely any information he obtained has come from summations and abstracts he has seen in some medical journal. I would be very surprised if he has researched and read multiple studies. A pulmonologist would hold more weight, but even most of them are probably not up to snuff on the research. How much time do you guys really think these clinicians spend doing research? Considering their patient load, I bet not much.

The only experts I would listen to are those who are actually DOING the research or others people who are research scientists and have actually read all of the major studies.

The truth is there is no scientific consensus on e-cigs. That's why there's so much confusion out there. Some of the studies have been good, some bad, some questionable. That happens in science and is why it takes many studies and lots of evaluating to come to any consensus. And it doesn't help that the media, with all of its zeal to sell advertising, publishes completely false stories on the topic that works everyone into a frenzy. Nevermind that the actual scientists who did the research have to come forward and set the record straight. No one cares about that. The damage has already been done.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

My doctor said he'd be happy if I never smoked again and only vaped, but is concerned about the flavorings and preservatives in e-liquid...

One reason why I make my own with no additive organic flavors. The main reason is that the artificial stuff in most ejuice kills my mouth.
I also never plan on doing the high wattage vaping for health/safety reasons. Cook the juice enough and it will give off more bad stuff.

 

[TaketheRedPill]

On your next visit, ask him what he means - draw him into a conversation as to what he sees as specific issues with vaping. Does he have issues with PG? with VG? with physiological effects of nicotine? with flavorings? with e-liquid origins/safe handling? with high-watt vaping? what 'science' turned his opinion negative? Try to get a better understanding of what he thinks and you'll know how to respond effectively.

 

[Alto101]

If a Doctor acted this way with me, I would end the appointment right then and refuse to see him again unless he shows me his "evidence" and is willing to discuss it. I would also look into filing complaints against him. There simply no data to support his conclusions. Even the worst ANTZ will admit under pressure that there is no way that vaping is as harmful as smoking.

If my Doctor was was this wrong about vaping, I would then be forced to wonder what else he is completely wrong about. I am not going to trust my health to someone who is clearly wrong on an important subject and could be equally as wrong on others.

 

[RosaJ]

Without a doctor's prescription, Big Pharma companies cannot sell their wares. Although the gum and patches don't require a prescription any more, you still need one for Chantix. Who better to convince the masses than doctors?

It is in the doctor's interest to peddle the Big Pharma products because they also peddle the other drugs for them. And..., we have ascribed "godlike, all knowing qualities" to doctors. Doctors are not infallible, this can be proven by the amount of money they spend on malpractice insurance. I would not be surprised if BP subsidized their insurance premiums if doctors prescribed a certain amount of sales of their products.

 

[Xcighippy]

Head for CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association to find links to the research studies and data, and also for printable handout material.

Thanks for the link, I booked marked that long ago and read basically everything. The problem is these studies can be be contrived as being biased toward us vapers.
And I'm sure my DR's information is biased toward his views. So it is a no win argument. Very frustrating.
I believe we at a watershed moment in history where a product that is way less harmful than tobacco and has the potential to save millions of lives,by making tobacco products obsolete, will be squandered away because of political and economic reasons.

 

[Ron Pinckard]

next time, dont even mention that you vape, Let him see the results and refuse to get into any discussion about smoking versus vaping. I know whats in the ejuice i use, cause i make it myself ( can't stand the chemical smells from the crap you get out of stores). Seems a whole lot of the supposed profesionals are going against vaping now days,, too many in fact, given that there is still hardly any hard data either way,

 

[Deeo]

I wouldn't even try to reason with your doctor. I would have just responded by saying I feel better and breathe better so I am not concerned about vaping. The bottom line is listen to your body.

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

Thanks for the link, I booked marked that long ago and read basically everything. The problem is these studies can be be contrived as being biased toward us vapers.
And I'm sure my DR's information is biased toward his views. So it is a no win argument. Very frustrating.
I believe we at a watershed moment in history where a product that is way less harmful than tobacco and has the potential to save millions of lives,by making tobacco products obsolete, will be squandered away because of political and economic reasons.

Well here's large portion of the studies, both good and bad, in one place, and reviewed.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743514003739

Even their conclusion, though not "e-cigs are harmless", is most certainly in NOT "they're as bad or worse than cigs".

Take special care to to read the short blurb about each studies finding, specifically the ones that make mention of comparison without cigarette output levels (CC).

I'd bet every piece of gear i own his research consisted of reading 4 headlines and magically changing his opinion.

 

[Racehorse]

Please arm me with counter arguments to this for my next visit. He obviously got his information somewhere he considers reputable.
Other than this disagreement, He has been a great DR whom I (used to have ) great respect for.

Doctors don't know much about vaping, any more than the rest of us do as far as 20 year studies.
I am not sure I would disrespect my doctor because we disagreed on one or 2 things?

My doc and I hash it out all the time we are a partnership.........100% agreement reallly isn't required. In the end I do what I want, and they know that. I call that a respectful relationship. I use my doctor's vast education and experience to inform my own opinions.....and then I get to keep some of my own as well.