JUUL Tricks Its Customers Into Advocating for the Florida Flavor Ban
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"We can't sell flavors anymore, so nobody else should be allowed to either."
I have not been on the hate-Juul bandwagon previously, but I'm getting there now.
I have not been on the hate-Juul bandwagon previously, but I'm getting there now.
They've been irresponsible (to say the least) with their marketing, and disingenuous with their advocacy efforts.
I've never tried them, and won't really miss them.
Let a more responsible and ethical company take over their market niche.
I've never tried them, and won't really miss them.
Let a more responsible and ethical company take over their market niche.
The flavor ban is naked self-interest, because Juul stopped selling flavors other than tobacco and menthol without being forced to.
Tobacco 21 is absolutely despicable. Unfortunately, many of those who condemn Juul nevertheless support this.
Tobacco 21 is absolutely despicable. Unfortunately, many of those who condemn Juul nevertheless support this.
Well I've got to say, as always, Juul is like the cockroach of the vaping world. You gotta in some ways admire their ingenuity and I don't think they can catch COVID 19.
Still I would not want to vape one, at least more than once. The kid was like, using them for a brief period (he actually had to start smoking again in order to quit, a LOT harder than his first quit he said) and I tried one puff. I handed it back immediately, saying "Too rich for my blood honey."
I know my limits. Juul is like Fentanyl is compared to regular vaping is like codeine syrup.
And ooh, my SAT score would be so proud. LOL I LOVED those SAT questions. Math, not so much.
Anna
Still I would not want to vape one, at least more than once. The kid was like, using them for a brief period (he actually had to start smoking again in order to quit, a LOT harder than his first quit he said) and I tried one puff. I handed it back immediately, saying "Too rich for my blood honey."
I know my limits. Juul is like Fentanyl is compared to regular vaping is like codeine syrup.
And ooh, my SAT score would be so proud. LOL I LOVED those SAT questions. Math, not so much.
Anna
I really don’t get the Juul hate.
Harder to quit?
Some of the juices are 50mg/ml, so yeah, harder to quit, but that was based on the available info at the time.
What was the biggest problem with using ecigs to quit early on?
Getting that cigarette rush.
So they upped the nic and used nic salts to try to get it into the bloodstream faster.
They were successful: maybe too successful. Whatever.
As far as their advertising strategy goes, they were just following SOP.
Sex sells. Bling sells. Coolness sells.
I saw the same stuff from Logic, Blu, any of the cigalike companies, early on.
Bad idea in hindsight, but it wasn’t illegal, they did what the ad agency recommended, and they changed course as soon as it became apparent what a bad idea it was.
They are being scapegoated big time imo.
Okay, they’re being whiney about the flavor thing, but so what?
They made a voluntary move, nobody followed suit, and they’re whining.
It’s not a good look, but when is it ever?
I don’t think we should be helping the ANTZ demonize them.
Is Juul the perfect company?
No.
But, they are no worse than alot of other companies.
They comply with the law. They sell their products.
They are not part of some evil conspiracy to hook people on nicotine.
Well, they are, but that’s because Big Tobacco bought in.
Sorry/not sorry for the rant.
Harder to quit?
Some of the juices are 50mg/ml, so yeah, harder to quit, but that was based on the available info at the time.
What was the biggest problem with using ecigs to quit early on?
Getting that cigarette rush.
So they upped the nic and used nic salts to try to get it into the bloodstream faster.
They were successful: maybe too successful. Whatever.
As far as their advertising strategy goes, they were just following SOP.
Sex sells. Bling sells. Coolness sells.
I saw the same stuff from Logic, Blu, any of the cigalike companies, early on.
Bad idea in hindsight, but it wasn’t illegal, they did what the ad agency recommended, and they changed course as soon as it became apparent what a bad idea it was.
They are being scapegoated big time imo.
Okay, they’re being whiney about the flavor thing, but so what?
They made a voluntary move, nobody followed suit, and they’re whining.
It’s not a good look, but when is it ever?
I don’t think we should be helping the ANTZ demonize them.
Is Juul the perfect company?
No.
But, they are no worse than alot of other companies.
They comply with the law. They sell their products.
They are not part of some evil conspiracy to hook people on nicotine.
Well, they are, but that’s because Big Tobacco bought in.
Sorry/not sorry for the rant.
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In some important ways, yes. While I believe it's true that the benzoic acid in JUUL's nic salt formula, in cohort with the high nicotine strength, how the benzoic acid tames the harshness of that and how the benzoic acid at the same time also increases the rate at which the nicotine crosses the blood-brain barrier is making it easier for many aldults to make the switch to vaping, magnified by the fact it's cheap, it's small, it's easy to use, and it's very widely available in the US, one can no longer deny these other facts, that
- the mass-marketing of JUUL was aiming at kids, and that
- the fallout from that triggered the war on flavor which many non JUULers now suffer, and that
- flavor bans are still continuing to spread, regardless of our continued advocacy efforts, and that
- JUUL is owned by Big Tobacco (Altria) which seeks to monopolize the vaping industry, as
- JUUL's tricking its customers into an additional flavor ban seems completely in line with that goal, and
- the vast majority of JUULers are dual users so they don't fully quit smoking combustible tobacco, as
- they aren't really being encouraged in any particular way to do that, unlike many other vapers are (in fact I believe that many who tried vaping by using only a closed pod system have abandoned the idea of quit smoking attemps, i.e. under the guise of "I already tried everything, nothing works, and that also includes vaping because I tried JUUL so I did try vaping, yet, I'm still ALSO smoking tobacco...), and
- the paper "Nicotine Without Smoke" by the Royal College of Physicians also mentions the moral dilemma associated with "new-and-improved" vaping technology that improves, or speeds up pulmonary nicotine absorption rates to make it more akin to that of smoking combustible tobacco (despite not a lot of people seem to have read the whole paper very carefully, that is...).
Not really. I doubt that this specific, elaborate, in-depth explanation is printed on the packaging or is being told by the clerk behind the counter of your average newspaper shop or gas station.
Yes and no. I stopped smoking instantaneously abruptly the same exact moment I picked up vaping, and, I did not experience any cravings, despite I never felt that cigarette rush while vaping. Moreover, I never vaped high nic strength (about 5mg/ml was the strongest I could muster in the RDA that made me stop smoking, starting from 80 watts with a handbuilt dual coil Nichrome 80 fused claptons coil build). I never vaped Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA). Recently I tried vaping nic salt at 3mg/ml in my Kennedy 25 RDA. No cigarette rush to be had from that, either. This isn't to say everyone is the same, or should be the same. But the moral dilemma associated with high-strength nic salts is still outlined in the paper, and the paper isn't sitting in the rack of newspapers that is standing right next to the JUULs.
They were successful at getting flavors banned, and they still are. Do you know what a trojan horse looks like?
Parental fear mongering propaganda sells. Who do you think will rake in the benefits after benzoic acid will have replaced all flavors, even if it also means the banning of high-strength nic─and ESPECIALLY if that's what it also means? Again, do you know what a trojan horse looks like?
The main important question is not whether what they were doing was legal. I am a pragmatist when it comes to public health related moral interests so, it's what's going to be outlawed in the not-so-distant future... particularly, for what reasons (honest morality principles based on real science outcomes, or misguided reasons and greed being cleverly disguised as such?) that has my biggest worry.
Ha!
Right... it's only a billion lives being at stake.
After you move to the UK is when. That is, at least as far as their look toward vaping is concerned when compared to what's been happening in the US.
Let me please repeat it one more time. Do you know what a trojan horse looks like?
Is this your only reason to let them off the hook so easily, and, whatever happened to "once bitten, twice shy"? They are owned by Big Tobacco so the ANTZ are using THEM to demonize the vaping industry as a whole.
But what difference does it make, when clearly, the lawmakers in favor of a flavor ban are being so easily misguided/corrupt?
That's pretty much EXACTLY what Big Tobacco always used to say. So is it really any wonder that the ANTZ are jumping on this bandwagon, like a male goat on a bunch of carrots?
Do you mean to tell me that you didn't see this coming 10,000 miles away?
Sorry/not sorry for my having exposed your own self as ANTZ.
What is happening in the USA is not a result of any conspiracy that Juul is involved in.
If it’s not a sin, you can’t tax it at usurious rates.
It is the direct result of state government panic over the loss of MSA funds due to the decline in the number of smokers.
They are using the ANTZ to weaponize peoples’ fears for their children.
You don’t have this added pressure in the UK.
ANTZ, yes, but not the need to pay back tobacco bond investors.
As far as my being ANTZ, that’s just bizarre. Lol.
If it’s not a sin, you can’t tax it at usurious rates.
It is the direct result of state government panic over the loss of MSA funds due to the decline in the number of smokers.
They are using the ANTZ to weaponize peoples’ fears for their children.
You don’t have this added pressure in the UK.
ANTZ, yes, but not the need to pay back tobacco bond investors.
As far as my being ANTZ, that’s just bizarre. Lol.
The people of Troy also never thought the horse was a conspiracy. That is, until it was obviously too late.
That's why the ANTZ want everyone to believe that vaping is a sin. By far the easiest way to achieve that is to make it look like the kids are getting themselves addicted to it at an alarming rate so that, next, they can trick everyone into believing it was the flavors, not the nicotine rush that results from the benzoic acid. If they succeed, even more adults will want to vape the benzoic acid simply because it will cause any and all competition that relies on flavors to be essentially wiped out by this. (Even if high nic strength also gets banned in the process so that, as a result from that, the benzoic acid loses its true value, Altria and those who INDIRECTLY profit from combustible tobacco still win, as the banning of BOTH flavors AND high nic strength very clearly means victory for Big Tobacco.) The reason why the ANTZ try to protect Big Tobacco by targeting vaping is to protect their own jobs, their funding, as they can no longer continue to "fight" Big Tobacco after the "fight" will have ended so, by keeping the "Big" in Big Tobacco, they just keep on receiving equally Big funding.
Which immediately explains why it's a flagrant conspiracy.
Which is precisely what JUUL has also done. They had it all secretly planned a very long time ago.
Yes and no. The EU puts added pressure on the UK through the negotiation of new treaties that also involve the international trade of tobacco products, the market competition of any and all things that surround these products so the EU's TPD law (and the new version of it that's in the pipeline, the negotiation of which the UK can no longer participate how it used to in the past) still continues to have some non negligible effect on the UK. Trends that start off in the US very often tend to find their way to Europe. But yes, the MSA in the US versus national health insurance systems in the UK and in EU member states is making it plenty obvious the fact there's this enormous gap between the US and the UK in this regard, of course that's true, but then, I never tried to deny that fact. To the contrary, I was pointing out that it looks good, after you move to the UK, and, once there, you close your eyes to what's happening in the US.
After what JUUL has done, after witnessing your letting them off the hook in the way that you just did, I sincerely fail to see how this would be "bizarre".
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