I absolutely love/hate juul. On one hand its an awesome stealth vape at work. On the other, equally as addicting as a cigarette. Even subohming my regular setup, im finding myself drawn to the juul. And the cool mint flavor is the best. Not sweet, like a candy cane, but a cool blast of minty high level nicotine. Its gotta be, hands down, the best/worst thing going in the vape world. There, im done ranting, lol.
Juul
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The Juul was a good idea.
I was just reading an article how Altria messed up by buying them. I thought to myself "yeah, in the 30 days from now corparate mindset perhaps".
But long term? Probably a good decision.
Trouble is, now they've opened a can of worms called "taxing like tobacco products". Big brother has begun to ratchet up the notion of there's gold in them thar Juul's.
Right now only a few states tax vape stuff but that is about to change.
I was just reading an article how Altria messed up by buying them. I thought to myself "yeah, in the 30 days from now corparate mindset perhaps".
But long term? Probably a good decision.
Trouble is, now they've opened a can of worms called "taxing like tobacco products". Big brother has begun to ratchet up the notion of there's gold in them thar Juul's.
Right now only a few states tax vape stuff but that is about to change.
Yup. I finally bought some Juuls and it's been THE best at reducing MY cigarette cravings. I've been dual using for years (couple butts a day) and with the Juul, the urge to smoke is nearly completely gone. It has replaced my most difficult-to-give-up smokie-treat: the one when I wake up in the morning. I know a lot of folks think the Juul is evil, addictive, and expensive, and I would never use the Juul exclusively but it works for me as an effective supplement to a large vaping arsenal.
Although I have never tried a juul or the like, I do feel that type is the most effective way to stop smoking. I have been vaping over 7 years and still vape exactly the same, very hi nic and low wattage mtl. I think a lot still crave or chain vape because they are pushed into devices that do not provide enough nic and that throat heat in which they were use to and these juul type pods provide that.
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I would agree. I generally vape 6mg nic in my squonk mods but end up chain vaping and never really feel satisfied. In addition to the Juul I have an assortment of pod mods (Myjets, Suorin Drops, Boulder Rocks, two Lost Vape Orions and more) and fill those with 20-50mg. I find that those, like the Juul, tend to help a lot more with my cravings.
It's no wonder it scratches the itch better. Here's a chart showing how quickly and efficiently PAX Lab's nic salt commercial formula is absorbed into the bloodstream. At less than 5 min, it's 8x the amount of traditional freebase (but they don't say what nic level that is). And look at the incredible,almost immediate spike, as efficient as a smoke. And overall, a massive amount more nic gets into your bloodstream.
I kind of like the efficiency they have come up with. If one can successfully quit smoking , while only vaping a small amount, I feel it's the safest and best way. I'm one who believes that it's a healthier method to vape much less at a higher nic then vaping massive amounts at lower nic . Just like in smokes, I think the nic , while being addictive, is probably the least harmful chemical in the mix. Although it's just an opinion, I feel it's the high percentage of vg, that a lot vape these days, thats probably one of the worst in the mix and thus inhaling much much less by this method is a good thing. Of coarse when it comes time to wanting to quit vaping, the higher nic might be a bit harder to stop, but still a lot easier than wanting to quit smoking.
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While I agree that it's obviously better to vape 5 ml of 12 mg than 20 ml of 3 mg, I'm curious why you think VG is "worse" than PG?
Yeah, Diver, I'm with you there. If you need X amount of nic per day, I think there's not much doubt you're better off with lower juice amounts used to get it.
I've been trying my son's Juul, and an HCigar Akso I won (very similar) with 50mg nic. Although they're very tight, and don't deliver a big hit, you can absolutely feel it almost immediately. Chain vape 3-4 hits, and it's a genuine buzz. I guess the kind the teens like. I mean, even without the nic salt speed of absorption, it's using juice with nic that's about 4x as much as mine. And it's hitting the system incredibly fast, like a smoke. I can't help but wonder how this might've helped me that first month when I was chain vaping like a fool to get over the urge. But then, if I'd started with Juul, how much nic would I be using almost 2 years later? Especially since so much of the habit for us long term smokers is related to the act of inhaling, as opposed to just meeting a nic need.
I've actually been thinking about getting some nic salt and using it half/half with my freebase to mix juice in my customary 14-15mg strength, just to see if it would help me vape less juice throughout the day.
Although I have too much else to do today to take the time to try to find a link, way back before Juul even existed, Dr. Farsalinos had remarked that ~50 mg is likely what it would take to duplicate the nicotine "hit" that a traditional cigarette provides.
I've done that. Doesn't work for me. What does make me vape somewhat less is mixing my customary 13 with some 36 salts yielding ~25. But it doesn't cut my consumption in half either, so I'm actually getting more nic that way.
FWIW, I normally go through about 5ml a day of my regular 13 mg juice. I don't worry about it too much because I "puff" it more than I actually inhale it, and unlike smoking, I feel absolutely no ill effects from it.
Hmmm…why is it obviously better to vape 5ml/12mg nic than 20@3?
If nothing else spreading it out the vape over an interval of time is less invasive of the system. Nic after all, setting aside the ambiguity as to its addictive properties, is an irritant. It's nic level and rate of take-up that determine whether we tread past the threshold of dependency, in theory although certainly not exclusively.
I would posit that if through the construct of our solution we vape to relieve the stress of dependency, we should more likely remain dependent. It's kind of a choice thing, isn't it? I posted…
Vaping isn't exciting anymore | Page 5 | Post #97
In other words, if you're not constantly thinking I need a vape, or have to schedule or time one…no worries. That's not why you're vaping then, is it?
I also echo your ? to @vapdivrr as to VG.
Struggle with the doubt whether the urge towards vape minimalism (concentration) is more than anything and at best, our dedication to the affliction rather than a relief from it.
Consequently, I've avoided it.
Best of luck and Happy Holidays all.
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Which type of nic salts are you using? I notice both Nic River and Nude have a smooth version and a hit version? I was thinking of trying the hit version, so I could feel it. I mean, if I can vape 50mg out of a Juul, that's got to be a smooth version. I'm thinking that if I'm able to get a similar throat hit, but actually feel the nic, I wouldn't do my mid-afternoon or cocktail hour chain vaping as much.
I started with a Juul in February of this year. At the time, they only sold 5% (now Juul also sells 3%). A month later, I was down to 25mg/ml using a Suorin Air or Drop and then a Smok Infinix. 2ml per day. Later 12.5mg/ml using a Smok Infinix and then a Kayfun Prime. Also 2ml per day. Then 6mg/ml on a Kayfun Prime. 2 ml per day. And now, 5 mg/ml on a Kayfun Prime. 2 ml per day.
I think that graph is interesting and I've also posted it a few times. But it is important to note that "*". That one is modeled, not experimental data. Also, I think the graph is from Juul's marketing. And it is also likely that the equipment used for "traditional eliquid" is outdated by now... years behind. It would be interesting to see the study repeated with the Juul and more current equipment... for example, other pods, Kayfun Prime MTL setup, and a sub ohm DTL setup. Some of the subohm vapers consume massive amounts.
Well, you're right, Smoked. No absolutes in that graph. They don't even tell you what mg the "traditional" is, or whether it's supposed to be the same nic level at all. But Juul is only a few years old, so I'm not sure outdated equipment or freebase is a concern, as much as deciphering whether a current Juul user gets the "as tested" juice, or "commercial" version, or to your point- a newer version. But whether accurate or not, it is interesting, and is probably somewhat representative of absorption of salts vs. freebase, anyway. Just makes me interested in experimenting with some salts in my diy.
Sounds like you're consciously trying to lower your nic, I guess? I'm not too worried about lowering mine, but wouldn't try to really increase it. I'd just like to try it to see if it'd let me be satisfied for a while with a couple of hits, instead of hitting it as often.
I got Juul's graph from an article written 3 1/2 years ago. It is at least as old as 2015. You're right that there is a lot of information missing. A real scientific study would have a methods section with all the details.
One year earlier, there was an actual scientific study. This study used 18mg/ml in EVIC/EVOD and a cigalike. The authors suggested that 50mg/ml would approach a cigarette. A year later Juul came out with a 50mg/ml pod and a similar graph. I suspect that Juul was aware of this study but it's just a guess.
Compare this data to the "traditional eliquid" in Juul's graph.
My long term goal is to quit. It is a real struggle at 6 or 5 mg/ml to keep it at 2 ml per day.
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PG is unpopular because the name "Polypropylene Glycol" sounds eerie to general public, who do not know much about organic chemistry.
Polypropylene Glycol is a too common industrial ingredient for many types of cakes and ice creams, used to keep and protect the flavourings mainly.
The name sounds very similar to "Polyethylene Glycol" - a totally different chemical compound, used as coolant and for hydraulic brakes, which is highly toxic.
For my MTL vape, I use high PG e-liquid, because it make less prominent clouds, has a stronger hit, and doesn't dehydrate my respiratory tract as much as Glycerine does.
I must say, the popular wisdom in vaping about PG and VG is mostly anedoctal, and doesn't match the common scientific knowledge about the two compounds.
Polypropylene Glycol is a too common industrial ingredient for many types of cakes and ice creams, used to keep and protect the flavourings mainly.
The name sounds very similar to "Polyethylene Glycol" - a totally different chemical compound, used as coolant and for hydraulic brakes, which is highly toxic.
For my MTL vape, I use high PG e-liquid, because it make less prominent clouds, has a stronger hit, and doesn't dehydrate my respiratory tract as much as Glycerine does.
I must say, the popular wisdom in vaping about PG and VG is mostly anedoctal, and doesn't match the common scientific knowledge about the two compounds.
Both provide exactly the same same amount of nicotine (60 mg/day), but with the latter, one is inhaling four times as much PG/VG/Flavorings as with the former.
Juul takes this even further. A bit over 1ml of Juul liquid would provide the same amount of nic.
The question for any particular individual is: How much vapor do you need with your nic to feel satisfied? I understand the answer varies.
I think it's unpopular because some people have a sensitivity to it. I'm not one of them. I use a ~2:1 ratio of VG: PG at least in part because I believe that vaping some PG has a protective effect against the common cold.
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