Kanger Dripbox 160 TC
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Actually, I can fully appreciate and respect everyone who took the time to say it's not a good idea: You're ABSOLUTELY correct. 100% agree... But it's actually not dangerous to do a few times if cautious about it.
It's not the drain that causes the battery to vent, it's the battery getting too hot. Technically, it's 70A @ 4.2, 294W. The VTC5A is actually a 35A 2600mAh battery. I have trouble believing it's a consistent 35A, though. Someone did release a VERY good test sheet comparing it with others: Test/Review of Sony US18650VTC5A (2600mAh, 35A*) | BudgetLightForum.com - They do not get as hot [as quickly] as the VTC5's do, either. Sony is known for their battery chemicals.
- I strongly discourage putting a build like this on it for normal use. It will bite you. Literally. In the face. With a boom sound accompanying it if you aren't careful.
- Yes, the dripbox will fire that low... It seems it's actually NOT regulated. It's just basically a mech.
- Running this low of a build on any single battery in and of itself is actually not dangerous. It's when the battery gets hot that things become a problem.
I don't actually keep that build any mod at all. It was more meant to determine if I wanted to step away from mechs and unregulated devices and get something with higher wattage capability, and because I saw a youtube video of someone else running an absurdly low build in the dripbox and didn't believe it would fire. The dripbox 160 is my first VW/TC mod. I typically run .2 - .5 builds. But the option is always there to go silly low and take a few pulls on it every hour or so at work (and recharge it right after lol)Also, check out the VTC5A!
Sony actually did *NOT* stop producing nor selling the VTC5's as they claimed they did. Simply put: They don't want consumers buying their batteries. Their high drain/high capacity batteries were never meant to be in our hands, and they only want to sell to manufacturers and distributors of OEM equipment. Part of it is due to the safety aspect (i.e. the guy who blew up his kangertech mod in his face) - and them not wanting their name mentioned with it. Notice how much they kept referencing Kangertech and LG when that that happened? It's bad for business. Especially when a vape shop says, 'He put too low of a build in it and the battery exploded.' Then it turns in to 'Well, the battery should have had protection to prevent it from being able to blow up.' Then, before you know it, everyone is getting sued. Kinda like McDonalds with the woman that sued because her coffee was too hot.
Another part of it is simply not wanting to be involved with the consumer market as much. They've shifted their focus primarily to B2B. For example, their cameras are actually what is in Apple computers and iPhone's...
So, if you run across Sony VTC5A batteries? They could actually be real - Sony does make them. They're just making sure to keep it relatively quiet.
They also won't sell to the majority of the smaller vendors they used to, making them harder to come by. I'd recommend grabbing a set if you can find authentic ones. I have friends there that managed to do me a favour.
There's a vape shop locally here that has them in stock (Sony's European HQ is actually HERE in Budapest) - but I was hesitant to trust the shop that they weren't just falsely advertised re-wraps. That seems to be a common thing...
Where's @Mooch when you really, really need him?
Actually, I can fully appreciate and respect everyone who took the time to say it's not a good idea: You're ABSOLUTELY correct. 100% agree... But it's actually not dangerous to do a few times if cautious about it.
...
I think a Big Thing to consider is this is a Public Forum which is Frequented by Vapers (and Potential Vapers) of All Experience Levels. From Stone Cold Rookies with Zero Expertise to those who Design Circuit Boards and Mods.
And there will Also be some who think that Something is OK to do because they read about someone Else doing it.
The VTC5A isn't a 35A battery. That comes from a misreading of the datasheet...
The Sony VTC5A is not a 35A battery!
In my testing it was rated at 25A...
Sony VTC5A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...a fantastic 25A battery!
That BudgetLightForum is also wrong about the VTC5 being a 30A battery, it is a 20A battery. This is another example of the datasheet being read incorrectly.
You probably should've stopped right there!! But no........
Would you consider it not as dangerous if you only put 3 bullets in a 38, spun the cylinder and slammed it shut, then pulled the trigger as opposed to if you put 6 in it?!!!
You do understand that 70A is double what the MFG "says" the battery will handle, right? There is no Sony battery on the market that is 35A anyway... Even the guy that tested the VTC5A, (from the link you provided), said it got too hot at just 25A, so why would you suppose its a good idea to push it to 70A and be surprised it got so hot?
I will re-post this incase you missed it.... PLEASE VAPE RESPONSIBLY.............
So, you're making an rather large amount of assumptions here.
There really is QUITE a difference - I assure you. Pulling draw that requires even 10x the amperage is not where the issue comes in. It's when the battery gets too hot and vents is where you have a problem.
Yes, it can 'handle' 35A. It's not rated for a CDR of 35A - hence the 80C cut. But it certainly CAN put out 35A. Yes, it gets hot when you do that - common sense. Would you use speaker wire for your cars primary battery terminals and expect them not to melt? Yes, the battery got up to 80C on 25A testing load. Again, that's not where the problem is. As the voltage drains (the 'pipe'), the heat increases. Mooch does not consider it a 35A battery (rightfully so) because the battery can NOT safely be used with a CDR of 35A. Again, however, this is why Sony doesn't want consumers buying their batteries. They produce, for example, this battery, which CAN hit 35A for a short burst - and people start arguing over whether or not it's 'truly' a 35A battery, assuming that the idea is it will produce a useable consistent 35A for any (even short) period of time. That's not the case.
Mooch had a valid point in the message he was trying to convey, but I think he's wording it incorrectly, IMO.
The way I take his information is, 'don't treat it as a 35A or you may end up like this guy: E-cigarette explosion breaks man's neck '
So, again, what will happen if you pull 35A from it? It will, very quickly, get hot. The power curve will begin to greatly drop. This is equivalent to say, 'The voltage is dropping and the heat is building up.' When run too long in that fashion, and please make no mistake that 'too long' can pretty much be a VERY short time, the battery will vent.
As Mooch even said: 'That max continuous discharge current rating is just a capability, something the battery can do without suffering much damage, as long as you don't run it at 35A for too long. Otherwise it will overheat.' In his view, it's not a 35A battery, and rightfully so: It's not consistently useable at 35A. But for a hardware developer/embedded system dev that may need that kind of split-second hit of 35A? Yep, the battery is adequate and capable of doing it safely.
Again, THIS right HERE is exactly why Sony doesn't want their batteries in the hands of consumers.
His post brought about a bit of misinterpretation, but at the same time, I understand his point. i.e., I reference, again, the guy who had his kangertech blow up in his face.
I appreciate the care and concern, but don't make an assumption that I'm otherwise stupid.
I was surprised to see this because that's not what I am saying at all. If you check my pulsed discharge graphs you'll see I bring it up to, IIRC, 70A in my testing. This is not advisable though. But perhaps not for the reason you're thinking.
The danger in these higher discharge current levels often doesn't exist because of the battery's temperature during a high amp pulsed discharge. My pulse discharge graphs, with peak temperature readings, prove that. The danger is in what can happen if there is a mod malfunction or accidental button press, either of which can continuously discharge the battery. Needless to say, that could cause trouble.
Each of us has to decide whether to take that risk into account or not when choosing a discharge current level. The danger still exists no matter what we decide though.
I chose what's left of my 9 1/4 fingers thank you! (Saws have not been kind to me through out the years!)
But that's just me.
But that's just me.
Big fan of letting Darwinism take place here. I mean what does @Mooch really know anyway with all his fancy graphs and testing equipment?
I really feel like you could build lower Jonny. Just get an oven mitt....as long as you pulse what could go wrong?
What I would do is get one of those fancy 40amp labeled 18650 and go lower.....
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I really feel like you could build lower Jonny. Just get an oven mitt....as long as you pulse what could go wrong?
What I would do is get one of those fancy 40amp labeled 18650 and go lower.....
FDA BOC
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough... Or perhaps I just wrote entirely too long of a response and the context was lost.I was surprised to see this because that's not what I am saying at all. If you check my pulsed discharge graphs you'll see I bring it up to, IIRC, 70A in my testing. This is not advisable though. But perhaps not for the reason you're thinking.
The danger in these higher discharge current levels often doesn't exist because of the battery's temperature during a high amp pulsed discharge. My pulse discharge graphs, with peak temperature readings, prove that. The danger is in what can happen if there is a mod malfunction or accidental button press, either of which can continuously discharge the battery. Needless to say, that could cause trouble.
Each of us has to decide whether to take that risk into account or not when choosing a discharge current level. The danger still exists no matter what we decide though.
What you said:
Is exactly what I said in the half a novel above.
Actually, using said 'common sense' is not something I'm particularly keen on. 'Common sense' is another way of saying common consensus, or the generally agreed upon. We already know 2/3 of the worlds population is completely stupid, thus, making common sense joining the masses. Not having common sense is typically a good thing.
This is just a completely ignorant statement on your behalf. It shows that some people truly have no care or concern for letting said ignorance shine for the sake of getting a "Yeah!" or two in there.
Although, truly, humorous.
Mooch: To say the battery is not a 35A cell, that all depends on your application. i.e. in the need of 35A for an initial burst during, say, a POST of various components (hypothetical), the battery would fit the need, making it - in that instance - fit the application, and making it a 35A cell.
For a need or want of 35A CDR, then no, it's not a 35A in that application. As you pointed out, a mod malfunction or any other incident that causes a continual discharge on the battery poses the same risk with ANY battery.
The fact that people are incapable of realizing that simple point? THAT, again, is why Sony doesn't want the consumer market having their cells.
For a need or want of 35A CDR, then no, it's not a 35A in that application. As you pointed out, a mod malfunction or any other incident that causes a continual discharge on the battery poses the same risk with ANY battery.
The fact that people are incapable of realizing that simple point? THAT, again, is why Sony doesn't want the consumer market having their cells.
This is just a completely ignorant statement on your behalf. It shows that some people truly have no care or concern for letting said ignorance shine for the sake of getting a "Yeah!" or two in there.
Although, truly, humorous.
FDA BOC
Yes, I know. But that's not what I was referring to.
I don't think we can rescue this particular thread of this thread though. It will take up much of our time.
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