KangerTech SUBTANK Mini

[Darryl Licht]

Guys, I'm a new subtank user. I used sigelei mini 30w + subtank mini, using 0.5 occ. And my friend using rdna40 + subtank (the bigger one), using 0.5 occ. Both fire on 25 watts, and at the same volt. Now the questions :

why the Rdna tastes so much better on the flavor than my sigelei? Is it because the devices or the subtank? Even if I run my sigelei on 30w and higher volt, I still can't match up with rdna flavor. Flavor on mine is bland, inhale I don't taste anything, I do taste a thin flavor on the exhale. Rdna is full on both.

and if the devices do make a difference, how can I perform my subtank to that level? Maybe using a lover ohms build? Cos my sigelei can take it to maybe 3 ohms.

I do think rdna has an overhead wattage, cos I heard ipv have to take it to 60 watts to outperform 25 watts rdna. So how to make my subtank better? Because personally I don't want to replace my sigelei, I'm in love with the design and else. Rdna is okay, but it's way over my budget.

Actually, the opposite, if you want more headroom on your mod build to a higher resistance coil. Try a 0.7-0.8 ohm build.

My .8 ohm build @20-25W in my STM RBA gives flavor and vapor similar to my 0.5 OCC coils at 30W. Just a slightly cooler vape.

I am also assuming that you are using the same juice in both these tanks for your comparisons?

As an example, using the same tank/coils/juice on both my iPV Mini 30W and iPV Mini II 70W, the 70W gives a slightly better vape due to more room above the 30W I was using on each mod. Higher wattage mod should almost always have a slightly better vape than a lower wattage mod at the same wattage setting and using the same res coil and eliquid.

 

[DavidAmonettNashville]

You shouldn't be suspicious. I am new here ... and I am seriously asking this .. so please let me know. I will gladly appreciate it for sure.

Thank in advance!



And yeah, I really need to know that. Sorry for that once again.

You already have a thread you started here -----> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...yfun-v4-than-subtank-mini-what-may-cause.html You can't cross post all over the place..

 

[DP2Raja]

So please let me know. I've got better flavour and vapour (or identical) from the Kayfun V4 tobeco clone compared to the Subtank Mini. Is that normal ? I mean I thought Subtank mini should be significantly better but I can't see that. Is it because of my build on the Subtank Mini or it's normal that both are identical or sometimes Kayfun V4 even better .. is that normal and its not because my build sucks on the Mini ..?

Must be your build. There is no way the Kfun 4 can match the output and flavor with the STmini. If both builds are equal, the Kfun will not be up to to the same level with the STmini. Unless (maybe) with the sub ohm kit on the Kfun you can not match the airflow to get the volume of vapor that the STmini produces and the thick, juicy cloud the properly built RBA of the STmini with the slot air setting.

 

[cigatron]

A good Q for sure cig.

Why 0.5 ohms?

Just curious D. Seems that the device manufacturers are taking full advantage of the sub ohm community of vapers who have been sold on the philosophy that lower is better. Although it's true that subohm builds have their applications in the unregulated mod world, especially with the advent of faster wicking mediums, I'm not so sure they are the best choice when using regulated box mods with RTAs having build decks which limit coil width and airflow like the STm. Also thicker wire means more heat up and cool down time which results in more gunking. Alternatively coils can be wound in full contact but with wicking this heavy I'm seeing more wick-to-contact being noticeable with smaller wire spaced closely together (microspaced) than with large gauge contact. Coils like your twisted contact coil seemed to work best for me as far as firing fastest, but spaced twisted like mine for fastest cooling. Still playing around but haven't seen going below .8 ohms as any advantage with regulated mods. My next build will be 1.2 ohms twisted 32ga if I can fit it.

 

[DP2Raja]

4 identical posts and counting...

I am guessing patience isn't your strongpoint! LOL!

Will someone who owns both the KF V4 clone and a STM answer this person?

I think they are on break from the KF factory!
Should probably just finish your lunch and get back to cranking out those 30 piece Kfun sets.

 

[ThunderDan]

Guys, I'm a new subtank user. I used sigelei mini 30w + subtank mini, using 0.5 occ. And my friend using rdna40 + subtank (the bigger one), using 0.5 occ. Both fire on 25 watts, and at the same volt. Now the questions :

why the Rdna tastes so much better on the flavor than my sigelei? Is it because the devices or the subtank? Even if I run my sigelei on 30w and higher volt, I still can't match up with rdna flavor. Flavor on mine is bland, inhale I don't taste anything, I do taste a thin flavor on the exhale. Rdna is full on both.

and if the devices do make a difference, how can I perform my subtank to that level? Maybe using a lover ohms build? Cos my sigelei can take it to maybe 3 ohms.

I do think rdna has an overhead wattage, cos I heard ipv have to take it to 60 watts to outperform 25 watts rdna. So how to make my subtank better? Because personally I don't want to replace my sigelei, I'm in love with the design and else. Rdna is okay, but it's way over my budget.

Your sigelei 30 mini has a sx130 board in it iirc, that thing is slightly underpowered at same wattage compared to other boards, authentic DNA 30/40, sx330 v2/v3, etc. That is probably the difference in flavor you are noticing. Try turning yours up to the max, and it may help. I have a mod that uses that sx130 board and to me at 30w its about the same as 20-25w on a dna40.

It doesn't matter who sells the mod, sigelei/pioneer4you, (they are basically the same thing, same boards, same parent company) the board inside the mod matters more.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Remko]

Must be your build. There is no way the Kfun 4 can match the output and flavor with the STmini. If both builds are equal, the Kfun will not be up to to the same level with the STmini. Unless (maybe) with the sub ohm kit on the Kfun you can not match the airflow to get the volume of vapor that the STmini produces and the thick, juicy cloud the properly built RBA of the STmini with the slot air setting.

Thanks a lot for your answer, so could you point me out to what I must change into my build on the Subtank Mini ?

Subtank Mini - stock pre-build rba coil at 0.5 ohm with japanese cotton sitting tight but not blocking the juice channels vaping at 18-20 watts.
Kayfun V4 - 0.8 ohm 26g kanthal D with japanese cotton vaping at 15-16 watts.

What to change into the Subtank Mini to get a better vapour and flavour than the Subtank Mini ?

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. Its greatly appreciated!

 

[Darryl Licht]

Just curious D. Seems that the device manufacturers are taking full advantage of the sub ohm community of vapers who have been sold on the philosophy that lower is better. Although it's true that subohm builds have their applications in the unregulated mod world, especially with the advent of faster wicking mediums, I'm not so sure they are the best choice when using regulated box mods with RTAs having build decks which limit coil width like the STm. Also thicker wire means more heat up and cool down time which results in more gunking. Alternatively coils can be wound in full contact but with wicking this heavy I'm seeing more wick-to-contact being noticeable with smaller wire spaced closely together (microspaced) than with large gauge contact. Coils like your twisted contact coil seemed to work best for me as far as firing fastest, but spaced twisted like mine for fastest cooling. Still playing around but haven't seen going below .8 ohms as any advantage with regulated mods. My next build will be 1.2 ohms twisted 32ga if I can fit it.

Yeah, Don't get me wrong, I like the OCC & Atlantis 0.5 ohm coils but find that I get a better flavor using the rba and a 0.8 ohm build. I believe the .5 and under guys just enjoy buying and filling their eliquid more. .8 seems to be a good sweet spot for many vapers after doing 2 months of research on that topic. But that is a general statement for all tanks/rbas/rdas. Some attys work better above or below that from what I've learned.

My goal with my twisted sister coil was to fill the area above the air inlet with coil, and I achieved that and it works great. Next I'll try a similar

Two similar builds with similar goals: 0.8 ohm resistance and close to 5mm width:
26AWG single coil on a 1mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
28AWG twisted coil on a 2.5mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Note the difference in heat flux between the two!

I think that newbs should play with SE and see what changing the ID or wire gauge does to a build

 

[cigatron]

Yeah, Don't get me wrong, I like the OCC & Atlantis 0.5 ohm coils but find that I get a better flavor using the rba and a 0.8 ohm build. I believe the .5 and under guys just enjoy buying and filling their eliquid more. .8 seems to be a good sweet spot for many vapers after doing 2 months of research on that topic. But that is a general statement for all tanks/rbas/rdas. Some attys work better above or below that from what I've learned.

My goal with my twisted sister coil was to fill the area above the air inlet with coil, and I achieved that and it works great. Next I'll try a similar

Two similar builds with similar goals: 0.8 ohm resistance and close to 5mm width:
26AWG single coil on a 1mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
28AWG twisted coil on a 2.5mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Note the difference in heat flux between the two!

I think that newbs should play with SE and see what changing the ID or wire gauge does to a build

Going out on limb here D, anything less than 1.75mm in this rba is going to be a fail at 20w. Not enough wick. The 1mm build will dryhit at 12w imo. Try it though....cautiously.

 

[OMRebel67]

Just curious D. Seems that the device manufacturers are taking full advantage of the sub ohm community of vapers who have been sold on the philosophy that lower is better. Although it's true that subohm builds have their applications in the unregulated mod world, especially with the advent of faster wicking mediums, I'm not so sure they are the best choice when using regulated box mods with RTAs having build decks which limit coil width and airflow like the STm. Also thicker wire means more heat up and cool down time which results in more gunking. Alternatively coils can be wound in full contact but with wicking this heavy I'm seeing more wick-to-contact being noticeable with smaller wire spaced closely together (microspaced) than with large gauge contact. Coils like your twisted contact coil seemed to work best for me as far as firing fastest, but spaced twisted like mine for fastest cooling. Still playing around but haven't seen going below .8 ohms as any advantage with regulated mods. My next build will be 1.2 ohms twisted 32ga if I can fit it.

Why do I want to get there? Because the 0.5 coil I'm running gives me the best flavor so far. What's the problem with that???

 

[cigatron]

Why do I want to get there? Because the 0.5 coil I'm running gives me the best flavor so far. What's the problem with that???

No problem at all if thats working for you. We're all exploring different build stategies.

 

[cigatron]

Two similar builds with similar goals: 0.8 ohm resistance and close to 5mm width:
26AWG single coil on a 1mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
28AWG twisted coil on a 2.5mm mandrel
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Oh, I should mention, don't forget to fill in the "twist pitch" tab in SE. Your 28ga twisted 9/8 wrap will turn into a 6/5 when using 25 twists per inch or 1.01 twists per mm.

As it is SE tells me my twisted 32 needs only 4 wraps to get my .95 res. It actually takes 5. Heat flux shows red zone at 360 something....I beg to differ. I don't think SE considers the cooling effect of the juice in larger ID coils or the cooling effects of spaced winds. Nothing hot about my vape at 27w.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yeah, your pics pretty much illustrate my earlier attempts at wicking heavier after getting my STm. Each time I wicked heavier it got better. That's why I kept increasing my estimated max wattage for the device. I put a .... load of kgd in it this morning, just about ruined my coil by not pulling hard enough from both ends of the wick during positioning and have landed on a new plateau..... 35w max for 4-5sec chain vaping my twisted 32ga. Probably would be more like 30w if I had a single strand contact coil in it.

The flavor just gets better and better as I increase the wicking density...after break in.

You'll find your density limit soon (I hope) then you'll be gasping for more air.



Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

You'll find your density limit soon (I hope) then you'll be gasping for more air.



Good luck.

Would you believe the 35w chaining was on the 2-hole afc setting?

 

[MacTechVpr]

So please let me know. I've got better flavour and vapour (or identical) from the Kayfun V4 tobeco clone compared to the Subtank Mini. Is that normal ? I mean I thought Subtank mini should be significantly better but I can't see that. Is it because of my build on the Subtank Mini or it's normal that both are identical or sometimes Kayfun V4 even better .. is that normal and its not because my build sucks on the Mini ..?

Hard to say Rem, shoot us a picture! But it sounds wonderful.



I would hope that Kv4 with AFC+ juice control would be at least as good as a SubT. I've got a bunch of Kay's lyin' around. Have never gotten to building them! To busy workin' on Kangers! I've built a lot for others tho and gotten really productive vapes off t.m.c.'s.

Look this tank's surprised me. It's really geared towards a more diffuse vape. But if you know how to dial in density which it seems you do, with some adjustment you should be able to get it in an ST. It's a far more flexible design for airflow than I originally thought and coupled with drip tip choices, power regulation (wind selection)] and proper wicking for flow a very broad palate.

Go ahead flash a couple and we'll give it a go. That's what we've been needing here is more folks with pics. The news at 6 variety, not the wedding cake. It helps us all.

Good luck Rem.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Would you believe the 35w chaining was on the 2-hole afc setting?

Yep I would. Would you believe I'm chaining the 3-hole and diggin' airy? Go figure.



G'luck.

p.s. I've even gone more holes on all the MutX's. Damned Kanger.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just curious D. Seems that the device manufacturers are taking full advantage of the sub ohm community of vapers who have been sold on the philosophy that lower is better. Although it's true that subohm builds have their applications in the unregulated mod world, especially with the advent of faster wicking mediums, I'm not so sure they are the best choice when using regulated box mods with RTAs having build decks which limit coil width and airflow like the STm. Also thicker wire means more heat up and cool down time which results in more gunking. Alternatively coils can be wound in full contact but with wicking this heavy I'm seeing more wick-to-contact being noticeable with smaller wire spaced closely together (microspaced) than with large gauge contact. Coils like your twisted contact coil seemed to work best for me as far as firing fastest, but spaced twisted like mine for fastest cooling. Still playing around but haven't seen going below .8 ohms as any advantage with regulated mods. My next build will be 1.2 ohms twisted 32ga if I can fit it.

Right on brother!



G'luck.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Going out on limb here D, anything less than 1.75mm in this rba is going to be a fail at 20w. Not enough wick. The 1mm build will dryhit at 12w imo. Try it though....cautiously.

I wouldn't put that small an ID on my STM RBA. Just used that as an example using same parameters with same width and res for the OP.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Oh, I should mention, don't forget to fill in the "twist pitch" tab in SE. Your 28ga twisted 9/8 wrap will turn into a 6/5 when using 25 twists per inch or 1.01 twists per mm.

As it is SE tells me my twisted 32 needs only 4 wraps to get my .95 res. It actually takes 5. Heat flux shows red zone at 360 something....I beg to differ. I don't think SE considers the cooling effect of the juice in larger ID coils or the cooling effects of spaced winds. Nothing hot about my vape at 27w.

Yes I missed that # of twists data... whoops!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Why do I want to get there? Because the 0.5 coil I'm running gives me the best flavor so far. What's the problem with that???

More power headroom methinks on some of the boxes actually without running into amp limits sooner with lower res. If you haven't seen it yet, check out steam-engine's Mod range | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators and scope out your rig.

But I just like to be contrary I guess and defy the numbers. To me power is relative. I'm doin' dandy on my fine wire twisted lead parallels at 15-18W and I'm very used to 60W production on mech's. So it suits me just fine to build for single thick wire at higher or high mass fine wire at the lower. I'm seeing great vapor either way.

Good luck reb.