KangerTech SUBTANK Mini

[DP2Raja]

Both! Protect end turn, stabilize the length of the wind, clamp hard to a bit (flat), fix or compress ends (clamp on either side of coil), lots of purposes. It's not an art form bro…it's about gettin' to the vape and done with the stinks. No simpler way to do that than with simple tools we know work 'cause we use 'em all the time everywhere…except (for some odd reason) in vaping.

Trying to provoke some curiosity especially among new vapers so they don't get stuck in a generic hand jerk. Yet we all do (myself included) for months or years. But to me winding by hand's like tryin' to do some kinda crazy art with our hands tied behind our back and the brush between our teeth. I did it, and still do, trying to figure what if anything it brings to the table. But it's not even close to being an efficient way to get a reliable wind…except in this industry. And of course, fly fishing.

Here's a perfect example Mini Clamps with Vinyl Grips often called bull dog clamps or which resemble precision surgical Dieffenbach arterial clamps.

First simple tool I used to introduce the concept of tension, clamping, de-winding…was the forceps.


Posted on the ProtankMicro thread...The clamp Luke, the clamp! And I guess I'll be adding some details to Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! on clamps as I talk about stabilizing more advanced winds. Inexpensive surgical clamps, forceps, locking tweezers, fly fishing hackle pliers…rubber tipped, flat-tipped, serrated (as in pic)…in short a million things, many of which we have lying around the house are plentiful and cheap.

The pin vise you know. And here's another use for it along with a clamp, twisting the lead for tensioned parallels...


A search for clamps and miniature, hobby or instrument art and craft is productive. Google images is helpful.

For techniques and approaches that's where I need your help. And everyone here. I have a few. We're all bound to come up with a million more. But we will if there's more of us trying to build coherent winds.

Thanks DP, and good luck all.

Ahhh, perfect! Thanks for taking the time to explain Mac!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just to get this straight, the last few coils I wrapped I did under tension and they work nicely..
I put the lead wire into the spiral of the bit , put it in backwards into my drill, held the loose end of the kanthal taught and a little more while spinning the drill slowly to wrap my coil.. the coil doesn't spring back and hugs the bit nicely, very easy to do..
This would be tensioned yes

No G, you're spinning wire and that's not strain. Tension is stretching the coil on to the bit as you make the coil itself. I think you're talking about winding twisted pair. A common comparison. That's not going to get your micro in an oxidized tuxedo and to the effect.

Start with single-strand. Getting adhesion {closest proximity of turns] is difficult to achieve with twisted and takes practice. Even so because of variations in wire and in the twists it's difficult to lay it up as you coil with the best matchup of surfaces. Wrapping straight wire is a lot easier and really completes what a micro's supposed to be…tightly oxidized together. Pic of a hand tension wind onto a screwdriver below. Pin vise is easier and cleaner. Again, tension stretches the wire. That's what imparts the internal energy into the wire itself that makes it behave like a spring forever wanting to be a coil.

Nudge us anytime.

Good luck.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Does anybody else get a lot of painful spitback, using the RDA?
I'm running a .18 ohm Ni220 build, using 50/50 juice.
I put a thin strip of KGD skin over the coil, which has helped.

Zero spit back here, using a variety of Ω coils from .5 to 1.2Ω.

What AWG Ni? How many wraps and what ID?

Looking at Steam Engine and depending on the wire gauge/ID you cant be running over 1 to 2 wraps.

I would venture to say that the coil is far too hot for this rba, and you probably want a higher Ω coil.

Lower res coil doesn't necessarily mean better vape! Tensioned builds are much more efficient. For example my last 2 twisted tension builds at 0.8 and 1.2 Ω give me more dense vapor and better flavor than those 0.5 OCC's. If you like flavor and dense vapor check this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/633436-tensioned-micro-coils-next-step.html

 

[MacTechVpr]

so is this a parallel coil(2 pieces of rwire) but ur twisting the leads

Yep, you got it v. Tensioned wind essential. A conventional par twisted's just a hot wind. Purpose for the twisted leads is to protect the really close contact of the turns through oxidation. The payoff. A wind that's gonna conduct better to the wick and unlike a std par not going to start separating right from the jump. Loved parallels but couldn't handle the fiddly. Used twisted pair from the first month in apart from the Protank project. But since about Jun last year been torquing up these guys and they're stellar. What we'd want from a standard wind if we could throw the wire mass at it. The fast firing of a par and the cool density (thermal transfer, better coverage) of twisteds.

But they only work with a tensioned wind as the foundation. Worth the effort.

Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

Just to get this straight, the last few coils I wrapped I did under tension and they work nicely..
I put the lead wire into the spiral of the bit , put it in backwards into my drill, held the loose end of the kanthal taught and a little more while spinning the drill slowly to wrap my coil.. the coil doesn't spring back and hugs the bit nicely, very easy to do..
This would be tensioned yes

Gonna have to disagree with Mac here, nothing new....lol...By your description You are Tension Winding G3. Congrats on your success. Many find tension winding with a drill rewarding and easy. The Artisan Gizmo, Pin Vise and my DIY Cigamajig all provide a suitable means of tension winding. Some easier than others......

 

[MacTechVpr]

Gonna have to disagree with Mac here, nothing new....lol...By your description You are Tension Winding B. Congrats on your success. Many find tension winding with a drill rewarding and easy. The Artisan Gizmo, Pin Vise and my DIY Cigamajig all provide a suitable means of tension winding. Some easier than others......

My apologies cig. Withdraw my remarks.

 

[ThunderDan]

Zero spit back here, using a variety of Ω coils from .5 to 1.2Ω.

What AWG Ni? How many wraps and what ID?

Looking at Steam Engine and depending on the wire gauge/ID you cant be running over 1 to 2 wraps.

I would venture to say that the coil is far too hot for this rba, and you probably want a higher Ω coil.

Lower res coil doesn't necessarily mean better vape! Tensioned builds are much more efficient. For example my last 2 twisted tension builds at 0.8 and 1.2 Ω give me more dense vapor and better flavor than those 0.5 OCC's. If you like flavor and dense vapor check this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/633436-tensioned-micro-coils-next-step.html

ni200 builds have a lower resistance versus kanthal, or nichrome. Not sure what gauge he is using but 28g ni200 for example would be 15 wraps around a 2.5mm bit to get to .18ohm.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Getting a strange issue here on my last coil... Ω's are jumping around on me from 1.3 to 2.4 and everything in between on my mod. Especially apparent if I tighten the atty down firm, if I back the atty off just a tad Ω's are stable at 1.3 (same as on my Ω meter). Any ideas as to the cause? Nothing is touching the coil (I checked that first)...?

 

[Darryl Licht]

ni200 builds have a lower resistance versus kanthal, or nichrome. Not sure what gauge he is using but 28g ni200 for example would be 15 wraps around a 2.5mm bit to get to .18ohm.

Since SE doesn't show Ni200, I used N20... which choice on SE is Ni200???

 

[ThunderDan]

Since SE doesn't show Ni200, I used N20... which choice on SE is Ni200???

Nickel 200

 

[Darryl Licht]

Nickel 200

OK... got it. OMG that's a lot of wraps. Yeah you are right, he has to be using 28 or 30 AWG; any larger than 28 would be too large a coil to fit!

 

[cigatron]

Negative cig. Prove it. What are the Newtons his hand drill exerts? And what is the threshold value?

Sorry. Not going to see the definition confused here.

If you mean a drill powered jig can accomplish it we agree. But tension has to be applied externally to rotation. Please make that clear. I know what you're saying.

Good luck.

Newtons?.....Threshold?....Thought you weren't gonna get technical here...lol. G3 got the results by turning the tool, not the wire. By his description he is holding tension on the wire and using his drill to slowly turn the mandrel instead torquing the mandrel by hand. It's a tension wound coil in every respect imo. Just a slightly more automated way to get there. I have used that method myself when I cut my right hand badly and couldn't grip my Cigamajig tightly without spuing blood everywhere....sorry. It works nicely but forces the unwinding of the misformed starter winds where the Cigamajig doesn't.....perfect coils straight off the winder every time.

 

[ThunderDan]

OK... got it. OMG that's a lot of wraps. Yeah you are right, he has to be using 28 or 30 AWG; any larger than 28 would be too large a coil to fit!

Yeah, it really is, heh, I am using 10, or 11 wraps around a 1/8" bit with 28g ni200 on my STmini RBA, and it came out to around .13 IIRC.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just to get this straight, the last few coils I wrapped I did under tension and they work nicely..
I put the lead wire into the spiral of the bit , put it in backwards into my drill, held the loose end of the kanthal taught and a little more while spinning the drill slowly to wrap my coil.. the coil doesn't spring back and hugs the bit nicely, very easy to do..
This would be tensioned yes

Guess I should have replied to you first. Yes, it's entirely possible you got the coil to a tensioned state. I've done a lot of testing with different kinds of drills. Actually asking others to wind coils for me. I found it's difficult to accomplish with a drill as regulating speed is difficult. As speed changes so does the strain being applied. It can be inconsistent. If you can wind very slowly, got a torquey drill and can keep a fairly constant pull on it, your chances are better than most.

You'll know better when you pulse it if it fires up micro end-to-end from the 1st or 2nd pulse, at low voltage. If it goes uniform rather early, a good indication. The rubber test g is in the vape. If it cools down your wind and production is up. You like likely got to tension and got more uniform oxidation.

Problem with high power devices is regulation. Even with mechanical jigs which we're seeing more of here on ECF the issue to overcome is regulating the amount of tension.

That is my concern. I'd like to see folks get there quickly and not be disappointed. Best way for me to assure that is to encourage all to try the means that I know will get them there.

Otherwise I have to resort to the lament spread throughout these pages…

YMMV.

And frankly, I hate to do that.

Good luck.

 

[puffon]

OK... got it. OMG that's a lot of wraps. Yeah you are right, he has to be using 28 or 30 AWG; any larger than 28 would be too large a coil to fit!

8 wraps of 30awg on 3mm, spaced.
Just getting a lot more spitback than the Lemo.
Will have to try experimenting with the distance from the air hole.
May have to try Kanthol for comparison.

 

[Mia11]

I've been following along, and thanks to the input of everyone here I'm learning so much! At this time I don't even have a Subtank Mini, but maybe I will at some point soon. It seems like a good tank, and I am becoming interested, obviously! Until then, I can apply some of this info just to improve my coil building with the set-up I am using.

 

[Darryl Licht]

Getting a strange issue here on my last coil... Ω's are jumping around on me from 1.3 to 2.4 and everything in between on my mod. Especially apparent if I tighten the atty down firm, if I back the atty off just a tad Ω's are stable at 1.3 (same as on my Ω meter). Any ideas as to the cause? Nothing is touching the coil (I checked that first)...?

OK. I found the culprit(s)... and good lesson for all STM RBA users. Even though I used my micro cutters to trim the legs after cinching them down, there was a minute amount of leg still sticking out. Couldn't see it with the naked eye, but I could feel it. Took my nail clippers and trimmed with the curvature of the posts and all was good.

But I also used the opportunity to change over to a 28AWG tension twisted coil at 0.7 Ω.
Specs here: 28AWG, T2, 8/8, 2.25mm, TP=0, LL=9mm, t.m.c.=0.7Ω

Loving these tensioned micros!

 

[cigatron]

OK. I found the culprit(s)... and good lesson for all STM RBA users. Even though I used my micro cutters to trim the legs after cinching them down, there was a minute amount of leg still sticking out. Couldn't see it with the naked eye, but I could feel it. Took my nail clippers and trimmed with the curvature of the posts and all was good.

But I also used the opportunity to change over to a 28AWG tension twisted coil at 0.7 Ω.
Specs here: 28AWG, T2, 8/8, 2.25mm, TP=0, LL=9mm, t.m.c.=0.7Ω

Loving these tensioned micros!

Missing the "twist pitch" value in SE Darryl. Please report back here to let us know how closely the wraps and res match real life values.

Good catch on the wire hanger bro!

 

[Darryl Licht]

Missing the "twist pitch" value in SE Darryl. Please report back hear to let us know how closely the wraps and res match real life values.

Good catch on the wire hanger bro!

Actually if I leave in twist pitch = or < wire diameter it halves the # of wraps! So I leave that at 0! 8 wraps is giving me 0.7 Ω on meter and mod!

 

[DavidAmonettNashville]

good morning