KangerTech SUBTANK Mini

[MacTechVpr]

Great thread. It's interesting to read the older posts and see how much vaping has progressed over the last couple years. I started last April with a high power sub ohm setup. Shorty after that I got a topbox kit for portability and to try something different and liked the idea of rebuilding. I gave it to my wife when her subtank broke and have picked up several tanks since then.
I have been interested in checking out mtl so I'm thinking about building a higher ohm coil for the toptank. I have some 24 kanthal and could build something around .8 with 10 wraps. Will that build fit the rba deck? I know I'd be better off with a thinner wire but can't really make it out to get some right now. I will definitely go that route next time if I like the results.

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Too many turns bro. Try…

24x1 8/8 2.778mm Ø = 0.7405Ω

It's only a tad wider than the longitudinal spread screw to screw across the posts so you're likely not going to skew the coil or tend to a diagonal installation. More like this pictured 25 AWG install…

Tensioned Micro Coil, Subtank Mni Base

• MacTechVpr
• Nov 11, 2015
• mactechvpr microcoil tensioned

25x7 @2.7778 mm = 0.805Ω 22.9W (5.2A) 170 mW/mm²

Also closer to the sweet spot for most medium powered variables. A very respectable 179 mW/mm² @ 30W.

And while you're at it Greg grab a 7/64" instrument screwdriver and try my suggestion of winding with strain. Affix the free end of the wire off the spool with tape to the shank or grip, start the first wind by bending it tightly against the face of the grip and then pull firmly as you wind until you see the individual turns stay tightly together. It's that easy. Use the edge of the spool* for leverage or the hand-hold that suits you. Keep the forearm steady. On a table is a good idea. I use a pulled out desk drawer as an arm rest and hold the spool base on the edge of the desk

I promise you…there may me shock and awe from this little wind.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Good luck and Happy New Year.

p.s. Don't forget to pulse lightly at rather low voltage, 3.0-3.2v until you start to see the predictable color changes. You'll know when you get there if you scan around for my pics. Don't burn off the light oxide layer you've created by over-powering. I know it's tempting. Wick sumptuously. Don't trim, chuck or decorate it. It's not a Christmas tree. You can always rewick if you're fiber heavy. Hail me if you're hung.

*Unless your wire came from one of those vendors re-winding bulk onto art spools. Try TEMCO (or ask for industrial) we're not playin' here.

 

[Grego25]

Too many turns bro. Try…

24x1 8/8 2.778mm Ø = 0.7405Ω

It's only a tad wider than the longitudinal spread screw to screw across the posts so you're likely not going to skew the coil or tend to a diagonal installation. More like this pictured 25 AWG install…

Tensioned Micro Coil, Subtank Mni Base

• MacTechVpr
• Nov 11, 2015
• mactechvpr microcoil tensioned

25x7 @2.7778 mm = 0.805Ω 22.9W (5.2A) 170 mW/mm²

Also closer to the sweet spot for most medium powered variables. A very respectable 179 mW/mm² @ 30W.

And while you're at it Greg grab a 7/64" instrument screwdriver and try my suggestion of winding with strain. Affix the free end of the wire off the spool with tape to the shank or grip, start the first wind by bending it tightly against the face of the grip and then pull firmly as you wind until you see the individual turns stay tightly together. It's that easy. Use the edge of the spool* for leverage or the hand-hold that suits you. Keep the forearm steady. On a table is a good idea. I use a pulled out desk drawer as an arm rest and hold the spool base on the edge of the desk

I promise you…there may me shock and awe from this little wind.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Good luck and Happy New Year.

p.s. Don't forget to pulse lightly at rather low voltage, 3.0-3.2v until you start to see the predictable color changes. You'll know when you get there if you scan around for my pics. Don't burn off the light oxide layer you've created by over-powering. I know it's tempting. Wick sumptuously. Don't trim, chuck or decorate it. It's not a Christmas tree. You can always rewick if you're fiber heavy. Hail me if you're hung.

*Unless your wire came from one of those vendors re-winding bulk onto art spools. Try TEMCO (or ask for industrial) we're not playin' here.

Thanks. I actually saw that you recommended 7/64 to someone else and steam engine said I'd reach my target resistance with 9 wraps. I tried that before seeing this reply and it worked out pretty well. It's coming up at .6 instead of .8 but I like the results. I usually use the method you mentioned but I didn't have a screwdriver the right size so I had to use a drill bit. That made it slightly spaced. Supposed to be 166 mW/mm but then again maybe it's a little off like the resistance. I've seen heat flux mentioned but don't really understand it. Is a higher number better? Not sure if that's because of the spacing. I'm enjoying the results I got. I love my lower resistance higher air flow tanks but they don't really replace smoking for me. This one is a much better substitute.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks. I actually saw that you recommended 7/64 to someone else and steam engine said I'd reach my target resistance with 9 wraps. I tried that before seeing this reply and it worked out pretty well. It's coming up at .6 instead of .8 but I like the results. I usually use the method you mentioned but I didn't have a screwdriver the right size so I had to use a drill bit. That made it slightly spaced. Supposed to be 166 mW/mm but then again maybe it's a little off like the resistance. I've seen heat flux mentioned but don't really understand it. Is a higher number better? Not sure if that's because of the spacing. I'm enjoying the results I got. I love my lower resistance higher air flow tanks but they don't really replace smoking for me. This one is a much better substitute.

In the green zone about midpoint of 175mw/mm sq is what most seem to find rewarding. Do try to get to straining one. It will make a huge diff in how much density you get from the coil. I like clouds but not without serious flavor. You can always add airflow but you have to have the vapor first. Hot builds just diffuse it.

Get back at me if ya hang up. On here almost every day.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks. I actually saw that you recommended 7/64 to someone else and steam engine said I'd reach my target resistance with 9 wraps. I tried that before seeing this reply and it worked out pretty well. It's coming up at .6 instead of .8 but I like the results. I usually use the method you mentioned but I didn't have a screwdriver the right size so I had to use a drill bit. That made it slightly spaced. Supposed to be 166 mW/mm but then again maybe it's a little off like the resistance. I've seen heat flux mentioned but don't really understand it. Is a higher number better? Not sure if that's because of the spacing. I'm enjoying the results I got. I love my lower resistance higher air flow tanks but they don't really replace smoking for me. This one is a much better substitute.

24x1 8/8 2.778mm Ø = 0.7405Ω
24x1 8/7 2.778mm Ø = 0.6985Ω

There can be small but significant differences in res if you're not mindful of the wrap count. S-E requires that the target res be adjusted to correspond to either full (return) or half (forward) wraps.

Also wrap spacing is set to zero for contact coils. The leg or lead length to 9mm precisely as this is the exact spread post to post across the airway if the coil is set squarely to the blocks. If you skew the set diagonally, change the winds bias angle or space wind…that geometry (and distance) changes. So you will see a res variation as the end result.

As I emphasized in the Protank thread from the jump the key to consistency in the vape is being able to duplicate the symmetry.

Now one would think hey small diffs in res only amount to a small diff in temp. It's not the obsession with that value that matters. True that. But it's changes in uniformity that may result in major diff's in surface temp output and that matters. In fact, it can totally change the vape as it does in going from spaced to a properly oxidized closed coil. And what am I talking about? About as much as 20% cooler output of the element vs. alternatives of the same mass. Or substantially more!

You will know this when you make one and note the striking difference in output temperature. And why does this matter? Simple. That temp change indicates the vaporization rate has changed. A cool down of the coil and its output means a more effective transfer of energy occurred, i.e. more vapor!

Moral of the story…symmetry matters.

Good luck Greg. Happy New Year and enjoy the vape.

 

[Grego25]

Ok so I happened to have a 2.77 mm screwdriver. The only wire in that range I could get was 27 ga. I went for 1 ohm with 6 or 7 tight wraps. I ended up getting .97 so close enough. It's much cooler with no popping. A little less flavor but I haven't taken it above 20w yet and the cotton seems to break in after a tank or so. Thanks for all the help MacTechVpr


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[MacTechVpr]

Ok so I happened to have a 2.77 mm screwdriver. The only wire in that range I could get was 27 ga. I went for 1 ohm with 6 or 7 tight wraps. I ended up getting .97 so close enough. It's much cooler with no popping. A little less flavor but I haven't taken it above 20w yet and the cotton seems to break in after a tank or so. Thanks for all the help MacTechVpr

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Congrats. 27AWG's not for off from 25, my ideal. But reason for lack of flavor is the relatively low contact surface area. That's quite a wide Ø for such a narrow gauge. So yes, you're short on heat capacity. You'll have to limit watts (or take shorter draws) as this element will go hotter quicker. It is a matter of time x power.

The thicker the wire the more power it can handle and also as often described here the longer it takes to ramp up. So for 27g lower your coil i.d. say to 2.5mm which is adequate for the ST but will tend to run drier as it can't deliver as much juice flow. It's a thinner garden hose. However, you will be able to add a turn or two and this will give you more wire-to-wick contact surface. It's this relative to power that determines potential overall output. Just like a stove top.

Good goin'. Good luck.

 

[dcdozer]

... Don't burn off the light oxide layer you've created by over-powering. I know it's tempting. Wick sumptuously. Don't trim, chuck or decorate it. It's not a Christmas tree. You can always rewick if you're fiber heavy. Hail me if you're hung.

*Unless your wire came from one of those vendors re-winding bulk onto art spools. Try TEMCO (or ask for industrial) we're not playin' here.

Hey Mac - I've been rebuilding for a year, but am no expert as the first build I found on youtube (spaced 28 gauge, 5 wraps, 1.0 ohms) has worked great for me, and I've not experimented at all. But why should the "outer layer" not be burnt off? I used to taste a strange, oily funk for about 10 minutes before I started burning it off, and I figured I was just burning off factory oil or something. I buy my wire from Lightning Vapes.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey Mac - I've been rebuilding for a year, but am no expert as the first build I found on youtube (spaced 28 gauge, 5 wraps, 1.0 ohms) has worked great for me, and I've not experimented at all. But why should the "outer layer" not be burnt off? I used to taste a strange, oily funk for about 10 minutes before I started burning it off, and I figured I was just burning off factory oil or something. I buy my wire from Lightning Vapes.

Gather that you mean the outer layer of oxidation I mentioned. The alumina oxidation layer is basically ceramic and electrically non-conductive. The dual layer created by electrical pulsing serves to insulate adjacent optimally contacting turns. Yes, there is an optimal.

Unoxidized turns in contact heat each other to a great degree sending temperatures upward. The greatest concentration at the center of a non-strained closed (contact) coil. However with a t.m.c. the energy is most evenly distributed and radiated with less energy wasted and proportionately more of it devoted to work, vaporization.

Why? If the heat at a coils center is in excess of what's needed beyond the vaporization point of the liquid it vents to air diffusing and over-heating the already created ambient vapor. So the tensioned micro coil is an approach and the means to optimize the thermal emission of the wire by limiting focused diffusion and resulting underpowered segments within the element. The net result, improved vapor density output for the wind given adequate suitable wicking and airflow. Hope this explanation is helpful.

Good luck and hope you have the chance to enjoy it this New Year.

 

[dcdozer]

Gather that you mean the outer layer of oxidation I mentioned. The alumina oxidation layer is basically ceramic and electrically non-conductive. The dual layer created by electrical pulsing serves to insulate adjacent optimally contacting turns. Yes, there is an optimal.

Unoxidized turns in contact heat each other to a great degree sending temperatures upward. The greatest concentration at the center of a non-strained closed (contact) coil. However with a t.m.c. the energy is most evenly distributed and radiated with less energy wasted and proportionately more of it devoted to work, vaporization.

Why? If the heat at a coils center is in excess of what's needed beyond the vaporization point of the liquid it vents to air diffusing and over-heating the already created ambient vapor. So the tensioned micro coil is an approach and the means to optimize the thermal emission of the wire by limiting focused diffusion and resulting underpowered segments within the element. The net result, improved vapor density output for the wind given adequate suitable wicking and airflow. Hope this explanation is helpful.

Good luck and hope you have the chance to enjoy it this New Year.

Thanks for the response. I think I understand your answer - you're saying oxidation gets built up coils with use, and don't burn that off of contact coils when you switch out the cotton....right? I was referring to a brand new coil that hasn't been used yet. I'm assuming you do want to burn the factory junk off the new coils...

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the response. I think I understand your answer - you're saying oxidation gets built up coils with use, and don't burn that off of contact coils when you switch out the cotton....right? I was referring to a brand new coil that hasn't been used yet. I'm assuming you do want to burn the factory junk off the new coils...

Yes, you can exhaust the Al at the surface and char off the oxidation layer which will result in erosion of the coil. Also the integrity of a t.m.c. is preserved by the internalized heat or energy used to create the coil, both the wind strain and pulsing. Higher heat levels will negate that and the coil will start to perform similarly to a non-oxidized or formed contact coil, i.e. from center out rather than uniformly. So you don't want to put in more energy in dry burning than used to create the wind. Erosion, warping and excessive heating will soon follow.

If you dry burn routinely you'll have a better vape overall and a longer lasting wind. Why deny yourself. You're worth it. And once you're used to the denser more thorough vaporization you won't want to be long without it. Then again, some folks like engine knock.

Good luck and HNY.

p.s. There's no factory junk to burn off per se on authentic Kanthal. It starts to build an alumina passivation layer as soon as it's produced, strain and pulsing augmenting this. That's what you want to keep. If you want to wipe it off use a microfiber and lightly draw the wire through to remove debris but it's all blown off as soon as you start to pulse it.

 

[Grego25]

Congrats. 27AWG's not for off from 25, my ideal. But reason for lack of flavor is the relatively low contact surface area. That's quite a wide Ø for such a narrow gauge. So yes, you're short on heat capacity. You'll have to limit watts (or take shorter draws) as this element will go hotter quicker. It is a matter of time x power.

The thicker the wire the more power it can handle and also as often described here the longer it takes to ramp up. So for 27g lower your coil i.d. say to 2.5mm which is adequate for the ST but will tend to run drier as it can't deliver as much juice flow. It's a thinner garden hose. However, you will be able to add a turn or two and this will give you more wire-to-wick contact surface. It's this relative to power that determines potential overall output. Just like a stove top.

Good goin'. Good luck.

I wasn't aware of changing diameter with different wire. I went with the wire I did in hopes it would heat up quicker. Also figured more wraps would equal more contact area and better flavor. The flavor is a lot better now. I'm happy enough with the build to keep it at least until I need to rewick. I'm also planning to get a few spools of wire so I can play with different configurations. I start doing things like this for the end result but the tinkerer in me always does 10x the work for that extra 1% better result.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I wasn't aware of changing diameter with different wire. I went with the wire I did in hopes it would heat up quicker. Also figured more wraps would equal more contact area and better flavor. The flavor is a lot better now. I'm happy enough with the build to keep it at least until I need to rewick. I'm also planning to get a few spools of wire so I can play with different configurations. I start doing things like this for the end result but the tinkerer in me always does 10x the work for that extra 1% better result.

An approach I like. Thinner gauge, less aspect ratio/mass will heat up faster while reaching a surface area target…if it gets you to your temp goal. That steam-engine.com can provide if you use the mW/mm spec as a guide and you can start to relate that to your vape. Somewhat comparable to the range/grill top output so useful. Glad you're making progress G.

HNY and g'luck.

 

[ashtrayogdc]

Managed to snag 6 of these with the 15% off code. Was a steal. Why are the white ones so cheaply priced at FT? Makes me wonder...

$15.98 Authentic KangerTech SUBTANK Mini Clearomizer - 4.5ml / 0.5ohm (15-60W) / stainless steel + glass at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

I'm thinking I want to strip the white paint off. Any tips?

 

[mia347]

My frustrating experience with this particular tank's leaking issues, after purchasing multiple these Kanger tanks. Made me try a different brand, Aspire Cleito. What a relief, it doesn't leak.

 

[schatz]

Not sure why the white ones are cheaper but I bet the paint comes off easily. Glad to see somebody else posting here, I bought 20 of them for 10 bucks each off of some going out of business sale and they have turned out to be the best purchase made so far. I havent purchased any other tank since Aug and dont plan on it. Thes are great, no leaks and great flavor with versatile builds, what more does anybody want in a tank?

 

[ashtrayogdc]

Not sure why the white ones are cheaper but I bet the paint comes off easily. Glad to see somebody else posting here, I bought 20 of them for 10 bucks each off of some going out of business sale and they have turned out to be the best purchase made so far. I havent purchased any other tank since Aug and dont plan on it. Thes are great, no leaks and great flavor with versatile builds, what more does anybody want in a tank?

Dang that's an awesome deal. Where did you find that deal? Were they the white version as well?

Oh and yes STM is still one of my most tried and true tanks. It just works!

 

[puffon]

It was the Vape Happy $9.99 deal. (Stainless Steel)
Wish I had bought more then.
I have 18 I've been using for about 3 years. No leaks, haven't even had to change o-rings yet.

 

[ashtrayogdc]

It was the Vape Happy $9.99 deal. (Stainless Steel)
Wish I had bought more then.
I have 18 I've been using for about 3 years. No leaks, haven't even had to change o-rings yet.

I've been using the same one for over a year now. Got in a car accident and I was holding it with my right hand. The airbag shot out and bent the base 510. Damn thing screwed on all janky but still worked! I replaced the base but still, that's some solid manufacturing right there.

 

[ashtrayogdc]

It was the Vape Happy $9.99 deal. (Stainless Steel)
Wish I had bought more then.
I have 18 I've been using for about 3 years. No leaks, haven't even had to change o-rings yet.

That is one helluva deal! I'm still happy with the FT one though. I am in Canada so not sure what the price with shipping and exchange would have been from Vape Happy (or if they even ship to Canaduh)

 

[schatz]

Dang that's an awesome deal. Where did you find that deal? Were they the white version as well?

Oh and yes STM is still one of my most tried and true tanks. It just works!

They were the stainless, and it was VapeHappy. At first I only ordered 4 so as not to be greedy and also to see if they were any good. Finally after 4 more orders spread out over a couple weeks I ended up with 20. I have also purchsed some extra bases preety cheaply since that sale, I think I have found the for 10 bucks, and then ordered bell caps to fit off fastech. I think I am all set.