Killing batteries

[lukewells]

s you could try freezing it, just for the hell..see if that does anything...i did but, the fault was with the chip.

Arrgh I missed this before.


WARNING

DO NOT EVER FREEZE A LITHIUM BASED BATTERY

It is very dangerous.

At anything below 0 degrees celcius, the lithium ion substrate starts to solidify and forms a permanent metalic plating around the anode. This will at best reduce the voltage of the battery dramatically or at worst explode next time you try to charge it. In this state, even a sharp impact to the battery can cause it to explode.

I've seen this twice with iPAQ's that have been left overnight in a car in cold weather.

iPAQ's use Lithium Polymer (which is a solid already) so the effect is less dramatic that with Lithium Ion (which can actually set on fire and explode) however in both cases the battery grew to about 3-4 times its original size completly splitting the iPAQ's in half, smashing the screen etc, once they were put on to charge.

 

[dc2k08]

my bad...thanks for luke...so which do we have in the e-cig? ion or poly?
I swear i read it was benficial to store lithium batteries in the freezer..perhaps its cool do to so in a fridge?

 

[GTOrichie]

From what I have seen Ion, but with the lack of uniformity amoung the e-cig world I wouldn't like to count on it lol.

I have had a couple of Lipo cells pop on me(due to impact damage) when I have been testing new rigs/cars and it's not nice, somthing along the lines of Hissing, Smoking, glowing then flames or a nice sharp POP/BANG.

 

[dc2k08]

yikes, i have often heard scare stories about ipods and such going on fire in owners pockets or at home. which do you think is safer poly or lion? and which is more expensive to manufacture?

 

[jigtg]

I though li-ion cells can be frozen for long time storage as well. No idea if freezing could heal it somehow. Battery Storage FAQ for instance states -20C. I'm sure there are better sources but I'm just being lazy... Anyway, there are electronics as well which probably do not like water(from air etc.) especially if you power it on when wet. Electronics can typically survive being water treated if you dry it well before use but since you cannot fully discharge li-ion, it might short circuit when defrosting. Optimal long time storage temperature for li-po is 0C. I think optimal storage charge was 80% for li-po.

 

[GTOrichie]

I tend to avoid Li-ion if I can as Lipo takes a better battering before it will flameout, but the hammering I give them is way more than an e-cig will ever recive.
I didn't meen to worry anyone about the safty of there cells I just wanted to get across the fact that if your not sure don't do it when it comes to lithium, as long as you treat them right they should be fine.
As for price lipos cost more but they are safer under high current drains, are lighter and IMO last longer before they are failing

On a side note has anyone actualy tested the cell in there e-cigs battery after it stops working?

 

[dc2k08]

not me, though i should have. got binned. still waiting for yours' to die gto!...told you, they only respond to fear!! ever get that model car batt hooked up?

 

[GTOrichie]

still waiting for one of these to go lol, I want the mating end from one to use for experamenting with, I have a alot of cells here but a fair few of those blue ones I showed you that I don't realy need so Im going to try them first.

 

[lukewells]

I certainly wouldn't trust that battery storage faq site. as they actually give 2 different storys

Read up about what happens to a Lithium battery when it freezes, there is loads of info on google. Yes a handful of hits are from people claiming that they froze their laptop battery and it extended the battery life by 100 hours etc. I think you will find that in truth freezing Lithium battery's can only have a negative effect. It is dangerous ..... fact, so please people be careful.

Like I say I've seen pdas smashed to bits from the force of the battery expanding while been charged after being frozen in a car overnight.... and thats the safer Lithium Polymer.

 

[Leonardjohn]

Be careful charging the E-Pack, mine caught fire. Five hours into the first charge cycle it burst into flames.
The instructions state, a charge time for the E-Pack is 6 hours. The first time I called E-Cig china, they hung up on me, then they wrote me email stating they would replace the product with another E-CIG and that "the product" was removed from their website.

That was 10 days ago,

This is what Jacky wrote.

On Aug 17, 2008, at 11:31 PM, 一郎 陈 wrote:

Dear Friend,

I am sorry for this situation, although this products is not stable in quality, yet your situation is seldom happen, anyway, we are responsible and sincere supplier, you can see our website we have take down the E-PACK from our website,we will send you another type E-CIG, hoping will meet your satisfaction.

Best Regards,
Jacky

 

[dc2k08]

oh sh1te-sticks! and here i am am with my freshly arrived health e-pack charging in the corner. it was probably based on the design of the e-pack though with shoddier parts. wont be leaving that in whean i leave the house! leave these in at night and you could be dead in the morning. so lucky you were there to catch it. i dred something like this happening

 

[lukewells]

Personally, I would never leave anything with Lithium batteries charging overnight (especially not Chinese batteries with poor or no QC)

Laptops are the worst (google to see how many hundreds of thousands of laptop batteries have been recalled due to fire risks .... and also videos and photos of laptop batteries setting on fire while charging)

Charging Lithium batteries is a complex procedure, not like the old Nicad days where all that was required was a constant voltage source. Lithium's need specific waveforms and also rely heavily on safety circuits that are built into the battery packs to control teperature while charging. I suspect that cheap Chinese batteries may not have the safety circuits built into the battery packs.

The only thing I would trust charging is a mobile phone with a genuine manufacturers battery. These are the more stable Lithium Polymer batteries, and the manufacturers own brand batterys actually have a very good safety record. 3rd party batteries are a differnt story, there have been plenty of reports/pictures/videos of fire/burns caused by those.

 

[dc2k08]

and i dont suppose there is any chance of getting more than a replacement e-cig from these companies if my house and family does burn down. but what about the re-sellers in our own countries? can they be held liable for damage caused by a dodgy batteries they re-sold? or does a warning in the instruction booklet cover their ...(ets)?

 

[trog100]

an e cig battery isnt trash.. its simply too small for the job its being ask to do..

the device design is trash.. the desire to make them look like real cigarettes simply means a battery thats up to doing the job its being asl to do cant be used..

the batteries are perfectly good batteries.. they are simple being ask to do the impossible.. pretty much like a moped battery would if stuck in a 4 x 4 truck..

trog

 

[NerdyCinderella]

I have 3 NJoys and 1 generic (I think) pen styles.

When my NJoy batteries died they died suddenly. My generic batteries just died but died slowly. Sought of ran out of steam.

Has anyone else experienced this difference with their dying batteries?

Any insight or thoughts on why that would happen?
Thanks

 

[NerdyCinderella]

I moved this question to another thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...71-battery-voltage-missleading.html#post35287

 

[trog100]

u guys are missing the main point about rechargeable batteries.. the main point is a product should have a big enough battery to do the job its intended to do..

my 4 x 4 truck has a pair 90 amp hour batteries fitted to it.. my little rover car just has a single 40 amp hour battery fitted.. my sons motor bike makes do with a 6 amp hour battery..

if i fitted the little rover battery to my truck it would work.. but not for long..

the bottom line is.. e cig batteries are too small to do the job we expect of them.. we are abusing them simply by using them.. they are not well treated batteries.. they are abused batteries right from the first puff..

nothing u do to them will alter this fact..

trog