Kozlowski/Sweanor on the ethics of lying about risks of smokeless and vapor products

[Bill Godshall]

Lynn Kozlowski and Dave Sweanor have written an excellent ethical critique of the lies by government health agencies and healthcare groups about very low risk smokeless tobacco and vapor products.

Kozlowski/Sweanor – Withholding differential risk information on legal consumer nicotine/tobacco products: The public health ethics of health information quarantines
http://www.ijdp.org/article/S0955-3959(16)30092-5/fulltext

“When the most deadly “disease” (smoking) is protected by FDA, it is as if needle-exchange programs had to prove no negative public health effects before being implemented—while ...... given via dirty syringes was sold over-the-counter.”

Jacob Sullum: Lying about smokeless tobacco and e-cigarettes (highlights Kozlowski/Sweanor article)
Lying About Snus and E-Cigarettes Is Like Blocking Access to Clean ...... Needles

Clive Bates: Mayo Clinic progresses from blatantly wrong to deeply misleading (on Mayo's response to Kozlowski/Sweanor article criticizing them for lying about smokeless) Mayo Clinic progresses from blatantly wrong to deeply misleading « The counterfactual

 

[sofarsogood]

Lynn Kozlowski and Dave Sweanor have written an excellent ethical critique of the lies by government health agencies and healthcare groups about very low risk smokeless tobacco and vapor products.

Kozlowski/Sweanor – Withholding differential risk information on legal consumer nicotine/tobacco products: The public health ethics of health information quarantines
http://www.ijdp.org/article/S0955-3959(16)30092-5/fulltext

“When the most deadly “disease” (smoking) is protected by FDA, it is as if needle-exchange programs had to prove no negative public health effects before being implemented—while ...... given via dirty syringes was sold over-the-counter.”

Jacob Sullum: Lying about smokeless tobacco and e-cigarettes (highlights Kozlowski/Sweanor article)
Lying About Snus and E-Cigarettes Is Like Blocking Access to Clean ...... Needles

Clive Bates: Mayo Clinic progresses from blatantly wrong to deeply misleading (on Mayo's response to Kozlowski/Sweanor article criticizing them for lying about smokeless) Mayo Clinic progresses from blatantly wrong to deeply misleading « The counterfactual

After looking into the public health response to vaping the only plausible conclusion I can find is they believe it's okay to lie to get people to do what they have decided is right. If you are a skillful pathological liar public health is where you belong. But note, while they lie ecigs continue to grow. The plausible conclusion to draw from that is everybody knows they are liars.

 

[Lessifer]

Perhaps someone should start a class action suit of smokers who considered switching to smokeless but did not after reading information provided by the mayo clinic?

 

[skoony]

I would like to add as far as the Mayo Clinic is concerned they are a great source of pride
for us Minnesotans.
Having said that their head of the smoking cessation department is the poster child
for misinformation.
Mike

 

[choochoogranny]

How much is the Mayo Clinic indebted to the pharmaceutical companies?

 

[Lessifer]

They don't seem to have a problem labeling NRT or psych meds as "safe"

Many treatments, including nicotine replacement therapy and non-nicotine medications, have been approved as safe and effective in treating nicotine dependence. Using more than one medication may help you get better results. For example, combining a longer acting medication with a short-acting nicotine replacement product may be beneficial. Talk to your health care provider about the right treatment for you.

Even with all of the documented health effects associated with those...
Nicotine dependence Treatments and drugs - Mayo Clinic

Pharma nicotine is A-Okay as is chantix and bupropion(as long as you don't mind the assault charges), but vaping and smokeless tobacco, no, that stuff will kill you.

 

[rico942]

I would like to add as far as the Mayo Clinic is concerned they are a great source of pride
for us Minnesotans.
Having said that their head of the smoking cessation department is the poster child
for misinformation.
Mike

I truly believe that there will be a point in the future when the real facts about vaping, and its safety relative to smoking, will become common knowledge throughout the free world. I say this not because I'm an optimist, I'm not. But this is the internet age. Information can be diffused by malfeasance for just so long, eventually the truth will be revealed ...

That being said, the real underlying loss here is that public trust in health organizations will be seriously eroded, in some cases destroyed, when their complicity in this disinformation campaign is revealed. At the very least, they will be seen as willfully ignorant or driven solely by ideology and personal bias ...

In the aftermath, who do we turn to then for vital information about the safety of innovative products or new medications, the effectivity of surgical procedures and treatment plans ? An institution that lied about vaping ?

And how many years will it take to rebuild that credibility and confidence ? A generation ?

When I was very young, my father told me this story from the Arabian Nights, to demonstrate how negative events can have enduring consequences. It is meant to be humorous, but also teaches a serious lesson ...

The Tale Of Abu Hasan

 

[OldBatty]

Reading these sub forums daily for the past year has certainly opened my eyes to just how much various parts of our government lies. While I doubt there will ever be another subject as extreme as the lies about vaping, you can tell they have had practice.

 

[Ardo]

I truly believe that there will be a point in the future when the real facts about vaping, and its safety relative to smoking, will become common knowledge throughout the free world. I say this not because I'm an optimist, I'm not. But this is the internet age. Information can be diffused by malfeasance for just so long, eventually the truth will be revealed ...

That being said, the real underlying loss here is that public trust in health organizations will be seriously eroded, in some cases destroyed, when their complicity in this disinformation campaign is revealed. At the very least, they will be seen as willfully ignorant or driven solely by ideology and personal bias ...

In the aftermath, who do we turn to then for vital information about the safety of innovative products or new medications, the effectivity of surgical procedures and treatment plans ? An institution that lied about vaping ?

And how many years will it take to rebuild that credibility and confidence ? A generation ?

When I was very young, my father told me this story from the Arabian Nights, to demonstrate how negative events can have enduring consequences. It is meant to be humorous, but also teaches a serious lesson ...

The Tale Of Abu Hasan

Unless governments find an excuse to censor Internet (like in China) there will be a point in the future when the real facts about vaping, and its safety relative to smoking, will become common knowledge throughout the free world.

Almost every smoker makes at least one attempt to quit somewhere down the line and most will look for information and ways that helps them succeed. When the mounting evidence supporting safer claims gets too solid to ignore (Even Stan Glantz now admits that vaping is considerably safer), tobacco control game is played.

I'm an optimist, though it's hard to ignore reality. The more I learn the more I realize that manipulating public opinion is easy. Take a voice that's generally regarded as reliable, mix it with distorted or cherry-picked information, preferably about anything that takes deep knowledge into whatever the current lie is, feed it to journalists who don't fact-check too much, count that most people are busy and superficial about the information they consume and voila. You've got a situation where only 35% of Americans know that vaping is safer than smoking.

No one has explained how BS works better than Jon Stewart

Luckily vaping is an emotional and personal subject to enough people who are changing the world through word of mouth and social media (60-75% of vapers - depending on the data source - have converted at least one smoker). And that's how vaping wins.

Vaping would definitely spread faster if information would be in line with facts and public health organizations supported vaping (like in the UK). I'm hopeful that we'll see the day when it becomes a new reality.

 

[BuGlen]

I agree that the truth about vaping will come out, but in the U.S., it won't go unchallenged by misinformation unless and until vapor products are finally deemed as tobacco products. Once deemed, they can be taxed as tobacco products by federal, state, and local governments with few (or no) legal challenges.

 

[EBates]

The sad part of this excellent post is that You Will Never See It Anywhere But Right Here.
The same folks that are peddling BS against vaping and other smokeless tobacco products will throw unlimited resources to kill anything that resembles the truth.
Our Govment Talking Heads And Their Bought And Paid For Media Will Die Before Allowing This To Derail Their Agenda.
Hial, Obama!

 

[bigdancehawk]

Reading these sub forums daily for the past year has certainly opened my eyes to just how much various parts of our government lies. While I doubt there will ever be another subject as extreme as the lies about vaping, you can tell they have had practice.

Yes, indeed. "Public Health" has been "practicing" for a very long time. Here's an example from about 60 years ago:
The sugar conspiracy | Ian Leslie

As this article illustrates, junk science gets promoted, repeated, and finds its way into governmental policy. Dissenters are often suppressed and ridiculed. And the public suffers.

Correcting policies based on bad science is sorta like trying to get an aircraft carrier turned around. It takes considerable time and energy.

This is nothing new. Copernicus's major theory was published in Dē revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), in the year of his death, 1543. Of course, Copernicus concluded that Earth and the other planets revolve around the Sun, not the other way around. When Galileo publicly express agreement with Copernicus, he was convicted of heresy and placed under house arrest for the rest of his life. The Catholic Church prohibited publication of Dē revolutionibus. The prohibition was not officially lifted until 1835, nearly 300 years later.

 

[OldBatty]

The sugar conspiracy | Ian Leslie

Thanks! Only about half way through and have already snagged a copy...

 

[EBates]

Yes, indeed. "Public Health" has been "practicing" for a very long time. Here's an example from about 60 years ago:
The sugar conspiracy | Ian Leslie

As this article illustrates, junk science gets promoted, repeated, and finds its way into governmental policy. Dissenters are often suppressed and ridiculed. And the public suffers.

Correcting policies based on bad science is sorta like trying to get an aircraft turned around. It takes considerable time and energy.

This is nothing new. Copernicus's major theory was published in Dē revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), in the year of his death, 1543. Of course, Copernicus concluded that Earth and the other planets revolve around the Sun, not the other way around. When Galileo publicly express agreement with Copernicus, he was convicted of heresy and placed under house arrest for the rest of his life. The Catholic Church prohibited publication of Dē revolutionibus. The prohibition was not officially lifted until 1835, nearly 300 years later.

I'm so sure that our precious 'scientists' could not possibly be allowing a similar fiasco to occur with e-cigs.
Coincidence? I'm so sure.

 

[DC2]

Perhaps someone should start a class action suit of smokers who considered switching to smokeless but did not after reading information provided by the mayo clinic?

The problem is they'd have to prove harm.

So they can't really sue until they get COPD or cancer or whatever.
And then they have to prove they would not have gotten it otherwise.

But yeah, I'm all for whatever it takes to put these desk murderers in prison.