KR808 good to start with?

[AlexTM]

I think MikeDeason is refering to this utterly ridiculous thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/79293-there-any-plastic-cartomizers.html
The new cartos do, from several reports, and also from the technical side, burn even worse than the old ones. And forget about "user error" or "not refilled soon enough" and all that. That is definitely not the cause, this has been discussed to death, but of course, a company whose main revenue comes from KR8s will not necessarily tell you about it.
Of course, I guess the question might be "How do you define plastic …"

Seriously, even with non-burning cartos already on the market (Greencigs) so far I don't see that they will replace 3-piece-units. If you refill them, they are no less hassle (just different), if you don't, they are considerably more expensive, and so far none produces quite as much vapour as a 510.

Oh, and kindly keep the FDA out of it. They are already looking for a reason to ban all PVs. I think we have to do this the old-fashioned way and vote with our purses.

 

[MikeDeason]

Curiosity got the better of me and I opened up the KR8 catomizer that that I've filled 15 times...

The material looks like new.

I've been topping off juice in it every evening which takes about 30 seconds so I guess it never got hot enough to burn.

The cartomizers are dirt cheap anyway so I'll probably toss it after 20 refills.

 

[satoshi]

I'm done with cartomizers once I finish this batch.

In a non-cartomizer unit though, if you're not dripping the atomizer has to make contact with a wicking material of some sort, yeah? Do we know that's safe and isn't also some polyester derivative? Even if it doesn't get hot enough to burn, you're still inhaling whatever vapors come from heating that I would imagine.

Interesting old thread about that http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/992-danger-filter.html

...for that matter, is it safe to heat up whatever material is used in the filter of regular cartridges, even if it's not going to burn given the distance from the atomizer?

Edit: also this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ome-coil-wicks-really-do-burn.html#post294955

 

[MikeDeason]

It's still better than smoking.

Until someone can prove that the filler material is harmful, I'm sticking w/cartomizers.

There soooooo much more convenient. Probably be the standard in a couple years.

Don't have time to mess w/dripping...filling...cleaning atomizers etc. etc.

 

[satoshi]

Well you do apparently have to mess with topping them off now, but apart from that I agree it's more convenient, and I like the concept a lot more. That was what attracted me initially.

But I'm not sure we know for a 100% fact that inhaling burnt polyester or the byproducts of heat-degraded polyester are healthier than smoking. As for being proven, I'd be amazed if anyone is even studying it. That could take years, just like it did for the link between cigarettes and lung cancer. We already know burnt polyester and similar fibers are toxic. Question is how much of it do you actually inhale, is there any safe amount, the chronic effects, what is the actual material, etc.

And a lot of products-even ones that include nicotine- are better than smoking. Nicotine patch + lozenge, snus, ariva/stonewall dissolvable tobacco, etc. Hell, non-cartomizer e-cigs may also be healthier unless the wicking or filter material is also causing a problem there.

I don't know. My goal with the e-cig is to stay on it and gradually get off it. I do not want to be vaping the rest of my life. I just don't want my alternative to also be unhealthy, and it seems awfully likely to me that cartomizers are.

 

[MikeDeason]

Doubtful they're unhealthy unless you burn the hell out of them. Topping them off takes seconds with this "condom" method they devised.

We need some FDA testing on the vape from these.

I can't be bothered w/3 piece so I'm taking my chances for now.

 

[satoshi]

Well from reading threads here, there is a 2 piece that doesn't have this problem, the greencig. And the cartos are compatible with KR808, I think (?)

They're just more expensive...looks like $2.80/carto instead of $1/carto. I like the design of their PCC better anyway.

Good luck, though.

 

[dg99]

I completely respect the right to an opinion, but I personally can't see the cartos replacing the standard 3 piece, at least not at this rate. They are nifty and convenient for some, and vendors like v4l have great marketing and a growing following (they are really "selling a lifestyle", the starbucks business model ), but at the end of the day a simple 510 will outperform it, it's cheap, and there's no risk of inhaling byproducts of combusting filler. I think the future will come in the means of liquid delivery, such as better engineering in carts to hold more liquid and vape dry (sort of like some of the mods here). With technological advances in battery technology too, we can look forward to some awesome products in the future. For now, in my opinion if it ain't broke don't fix it

 

[AlexTM]

The Tesla filter is in the pipeline as we speak. It'll still be a bit small, but if it holds up to its promisses, one problem solved.

Coming next: The Mega-Maxi-Tesla!

 

[Katmar]

I completely respect the right to an opinion, but I personally can't see the cartos replacing the standard 3 piece, at least not at this rate. They are nifty and convenient for some, and vendors like v4l have great marketing and a growing following (they are really "selling a lifestyle", the starbucks business model ), but at the end of the day a simple 510 will outperform it, it's cheap, and there's no risk of inhaling byproducts of combusting filler. I think the future will come in the means of liquid delivery, such as better engineering in carts to hold more liquid and vape dry (sort of like some of the mods here). With technological advances in battery technology too, we can look forward to some awesome products in the future. For now, in my opinion if it ain't broke don't fix it

Bingo!! Take away the risk of inhaling byproducts of combusting filler and you have a much safer product.
WELL SAID!!!!!!

 

[Haytoni]

I started with a KR 808D-1 7 months ago and haven't regretted it. Haven't had a cigarette in 7 months either.

I like it also, then again I like my other PVs the ones that you have to fill a lot more then the cartomizers.............either way you have to keep both wet, even the carts taste burnt if you let them dry out. Just buy from a reputable dealer, V4L is a real good one.

 

[Kent C]

I completely respect the right to an opinion, but I personally can't see the cartos replacing the standard 3 piece, at least not at this rate. They are nifty and convenient for some, and vendors like v4l have great marketing and a growing following (they are really "selling a lifestyle", the starbucks business model ), but at the end of the day a simple 510 will outperform it, it's cheap, and there's no risk of inhaling byproducts of combusting filler. I think the future will come in the means of liquid delivery, such as better engineering in carts to hold more liquid and vape dry (sort of like some of the mods here). With technological advances in battery technology too, we can look forward to some awesome products in the future. For now, in my opinion if it ain't broke don't fix it

I agree. I thought the 'premium' cartomizers might be a solution. Well they were for the vapor but they weren't for the taste - now they're tasting like they have the underflavor I experienced in vaporking.com, nhaler and puresmoker cartomizers. There's a balance going on - lower ohms will burn any fiber wrapped around it (and with predictable burn holes and patterns) and yet you Will get more vapor, but if you don't want the burn as with standard cartomizers, then you don't get the vapor. I'll just have to get used to topping off every 45 minutes ;-)

 

[dg99]

I agree. I thought the 'premium' cartomizers might be a solution. Well they were for the vapor but they weren't for the taste - now they're tasting like they have the underflavor I experienced in vaporking.com, nhaler and puresmoker cartomizers. There's a balance going on - lower ohms will burn any fiber wrapped around it (and with predictable burn holes and patterns) and yet you Will get more vapor, but if you don't want the burn as with standard cartomizers, then you don't get the vapor. I'll just have to get used to topping off every 45 minutes ;-)

The problem with an integrated element, as you pointed out, is what will always plague the cartos. Increase the wattage (lower resistance like the "premium" cartos, or raise the voltage) and you multiply the burnt filler problem, decrease the wattage and you have inadequate performance. The design snakes the element through filler material, and you can't really get around that.

I also feel the kr8 gets too much credit in the flavor department. As many have pointed out, delicate flavors are lost with high wattage and stronger flavors are lost with low wattage. Better flavor with a kr8 vs the 510 with say, cotton candy flavor, is probably not because the kr8 carto is a magic flavor machine, but because the flavor comes through better on lower wattage. Run that cotton candy on an 801 atty and you will probably have the same result, and eliminate the playing with fire (no pun intended) of burnt filling. The 510 atty to kr8 carto is apples to oranges with respect to flavor.

The 2 piece has its place, but I can't see much room for growth in its design. With a 3 piece, there's lots of room for improvement in different aspects of it's design, and there really isnt a limiting factor. I could see cartos rendered obsolete if a PV with batteries like the eGo, coupled with some kind of breakthrough in cart design/liquid delivery, were to hit the market.

 

[MikeDeason]

I already spend to much time messing w/ the e cigs.

If I had to go with a dreaded atomizer....cleaning, refilling, dripping and on and on...It might become a full time job.

I vape 24/7...Cartomizers for me.


Eventually they'll get the 2 piece perfect and the 3 piece will be gone.

 

[UberDuper]

I could see cartos rendered obsolete if a PV with batteries like the eGo, coupled with some kind of breakthrough in cart design/liquid delivery, were to hit the market.

Wouldn't such a PV render everything obsolete?

UD.

 

[vinterchaos]

i love cartos

 

[Kent C]

The problem with an integrated element, as you pointed out, is what will always plague the cartos. Increase the wattage (lower resistance like the "premium" cartos, or raise the voltage) and you multiply the burnt filler problem, decrease the wattage and you have inadequate performance. The design snakes the element through filler material, and you can't really get around that.

I also feel the kr8 gets too much credit in the flavor department. As many have pointed out, delicate flavors are lost with high wattage and stronger flavors are lost with low wattage. Better flavor with a kr8 vs the 510 with say, cotton candy flavor, is probably not because the kr8 carto is a magic flavor machine, but because the flavor comes through better on lower wattage. Run that cotton candy on an 801 atty and you will probably have the same result, and eliminate the playing with fire (no pun intended) of burnt filling. The 510 atty to kr8 carto is apples to oranges with respect to flavor.

The 2 piece has its place, but I can't see much room for growth in its design. With a 3 piece, there's lots of room for improvement in different aspects of it's design, and there really isnt a limiting factor. I could see cartos rendered obsolete if a PV with batteries like the eGo, coupled with some kind of breakthrough in cart design/liquid delivery, were to hit the market.

You're hitting on all cylinders, imo, although they won't be obsolete for a while.... lots of fans - perhaps like a Mac thing. Seems to fit.

 

[dg99]

Eventually they'll get the 2 piece perfect and the 3 piece will be gone.

My point is that there isn't really a way to get the 2 piece "perfect", the concept of the carto is integrating the element into the filler material, so if we want to run enough wattage to produce any notable performance we run into the burning issues. This is a non issue for a 3 piece.

Folks use cartos for convenience. Once a practical 3 piece cartridge system comes out, will there really be a reason to stick with cartos? Why would anyone settle for a design that doesn't perform as well, is harder to refill, and has known burning issues once convenience is equal between the systems

 

[MikeDeason]

My point is that there isn't really a way to get the 2 piece "perfect", the concept of the carto..... harder to refill, and has known burning issues once convenience is equal between the systems

They will devise a way to keep the heating element and filler seperate (already are) and a non burning filler...something. It's coming. Guaranteed.

As for easy to fill.

I just filled 4 cartomizers (condom method) in less than 1 minute...good for 2 days of vaping!!!

If e cigs catches on big it WILL be cartomizers or some 2 piece unit that rule the day.

 

[dg99]

They will devise a way to keep the heating element and filler seperate (already are) and a non burning filler...something. It's coming. Guaranteed.

As for easy to fill.

I just filled 4 cartomizers (condom method) in less than 1 minute...good for 2 days of vaping!!!

If e cigs catches on big it WILL be cartomizers or some 2 piece unit that rule the day.

I'm sure there are some great carto refill methods, but its hard to beat popping off a cart, *drip drip drip drip drip drip*, replacing the cart

I guess we'll agree to disagree about the future of the ecig. In order for the ecig to become mainstream, it will need to deliver convenience and performance, not everyone is ready to make the sacrifices we do. Improving the convenience of 3 pieces would be easier than improving the performance of the 2 pieces, imo.

Anyways..... back to the present. For now, pick your poison and vape on