Kr808d-1 carto's. How hot is hot?

[earthpig]

I must say, I've read the atomizer in specific carto's can reach a temperature of 580f degrees.
I have to believe this is incorrect and yet I cannot find anything posted verifying what the temp is.
After all boiling temp of water is 212f, depending on atmospheric pressure. It is my understanding PG + VG boil a lot sooner than that, so what would be the sense?

Can Y'all help me out here?
I have a curiosity/concern as to when we put certain flavors in a carto, that it is being burnt. I realize/believe it isn't but can't prove it.
I also realize the ohms of the carto and mah of the batteries have an effect, but I'm curious of what the standard setup is, not some modified setup.

I want to play with some special flavors I want to mix in, and don't want to see the chemical molecular structure morphed into something bad or dangerous, so there is a specific reason for this question. Once I know the temp (in F, please), I can then use that number to determine what is good for that specific compound.

An example is when we pan fry foods, we can use veggie oil and get it fairly hot, but if you use olive oil, it has a lower burn temp. Burning those oils can actually cause trans fats (not good).

Thanks guys/gals.
The Pig.

 

[dlbald]

Good question! I wonder about this too. I don't have an answer for you though.

 

[earthpig]

Thanks. I'm getting info on temps, but sure don't want to taint the thread with my speculation.
I would rather get firm info from someone "in the know". I posted it in the "Vet" section 2 days ago, but have yet to get a response. It is expected, since there is probably a lot on their plate.

The Pig!

 

[earthpig]

They finally responded but no temp given. Still a good answer, and yet I'm going to need a temp for determining burn point on a specific fluid additive.

Piggin

 

[Katya]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...mperatures-do-atomizers-reach.html#post101233

 

[earthpig]

I'm getting numbers like 250c, which translates to 480f.
It seems consistent that the 250 number comes up.
Man, I am not buying that.

Katya, your link gives one at 164f,
On the same link is 250. That's Sun Vapors, number (not calling for c or f) and the 250c is a common number I have read in a few locations.

So to me it's currently up in the air. I just have to believe it's below water boil temp (212f) and the 250c number is a hot point.

AAaaargggh !

Pig

 

[earthpig]

Side note.
I've also been told boil point to VG/PG is lower than water. Otherwise why not just use water as a base.

 

[earthpig]

OK, It's been a month and no answers. In the mean time I did get some info I thought I would share.

Carto atomizer temp = 250c or 482f.
.........
Veg Glycerine flash point = 160c or 320f (flash point is the point of vaporizing)
Prop Glycol flash point = 99c or 210f (just below water, @212f)
Nicotine flash point = 95c or 202f

Bottom line is this is not what I expected. It did answer a few things I've noticed in vaping. One thing is PG seems to vape faster when fired off, where VG seems to take a little more warming (like a second or two at first to bring it on).
Seems like when the VG does catch on, the vapor is superior, and even stornger on the exhale than PG (in general).

Well, now the next trick is to see if since the flavors are only ~3-6% of the contents of the fluid, if they are routinely picked up and not disturbed much during the flash point. After all, the flavors are surrounded by a 80% solution of vapor causing fluid (vg/pg/other). I would even imagine a percentage of the pg/vg is actually not at flash and is simply transported wit the portion that is.

Feedback would be appreciated, because I'm flying under radar trying to get these concepts.

earth diggin piggin
(truffles anyone?)

 

[earthpig]

Another thought...(sorry)
Just because something hits flash point doesn't mean it's destroyed or harmful.
One thing that did interest me, however is if flavor are flavors, and the strata's flash point changes (PG vs VG), the faster the flash, the less the damage (if it does happen).
Point being there is a 110f temp difference between the two. I might think that PG flashing faster IS safer??? It carries everything out of the atomizer cooler.

Thoughts?
Done diggin, piggin
(only found mushrooms)

 

[arjay55]

Read what you wrote and now my head hurts.

I was given a 601 pipe the other day and whilst it vapes away majestically there is little or no (flavour) taste. To me that infers the suspension is vaporizing but the flavours are either not vaporizing (in which case I feel I should taste something) or burning off (in which case I feel I should taste a slight burnt flavour)

It's all too confusing. If I think about it too hard I start to feel like a lemming about to explode.

Good luck on your quest for answers. I will be checking in for progress from time to time.

 

[earthpig]

Thanks arjay55
Yeah, my head hurts as well, since the experts on the site haven't been able to give me answers. NOT DOWNING THE SITE OR PRO'S !!!!
There are basics to this, no matter the format. Flavors/Nic/Fluids ALL do certain things under heat. The quest is to find out what?
Many tests are run with spectrum analysis of vapors, but it is hard to get specifics. Nearly a month just to find a source telling me atomizer temp ((which is a variable.., yet pretty much standard, (depending on the Volt/Ohm combo), BUT is also a necessary standard to flash point the fluids)).
it's one thing to talk about the possibilities, but "Someone" in the industry must have the basics, for safety reasons...

After all, we have a big bad FDA and many against us. We need to defend ourselves with firm (or semi firm) data.
Safety should be key to us as well as our ability to defend.

 

[newboy]

Hey, not an expert, but do know a few things.

The resistance of the atomizer/whatever times the current squared is the power/heat produced by the coil. Doesn't really matter, but for instance, my KR808D-1 produces about 5-7 Watts of heat. Note that this is not a temperature, any more than turning your stove to "medium" is a temperature. It is an amount of power. The longer you leave it on, the hotter (temp) it gets, up to a point.

If you put a pan of water on the stove, and turn the heat on, the temperaure of the water will only be 212*F. It doesn't matter if the stove setting is high, medium, or low (power). Turning the power up will make the water boil more vigorously, but the temp will remain 212, until the water is gone.

Same issue in the cartomizer. You have so much power available, as determined by the cart resistance, and voltage used. But the temperature of the cart is limited by the juice boiling point. As long as the wick remains wet, no issues.

What happens bad, is if you vape faster than the wick can re-wet itself, then the juice is no longer limiting the temperature, and the temperature rises. Now you get burned carts, wicks, etc.

hope it helps.

 

[earthpig]

newboy
Yeah, it kinda does, and I suspected the same.
Problem is, those dry (or near dry) wick scenarios are what need considered as the point of reference.
Though the PG or VG break down (vape) before the ~480f temp (like your 212, water reference), some of the other components of flavoring may have already toasted, and some might be of danger before the main ingredient (pg/vg) are at vaporization. I think it's all minimal, considering the flavors are only ~5% of the entire mix, but the flavors are the weakest (or unknown) link.
Thanks for the feedback

pig