Last night in the ER

[nurse3766]

i started vaping about a week ago. i want to say i am a psychiatric RN. i also have a history of generalized anxiety disorder with panic attacks. i have been on zoloft in the past 50mg which works beautifully for me. but like most psych patients when i start feeling better i forget my meds or decide i dont need them. then i usually go a year or more before i have any anxiety or attacks. then i get back on the meds that being said... i also like to save money so about 2 wks ago i started feeling anxious again so i started back on zoloft but only at 25 mg that way i could quarter the tabs and save money. (bad idea)
so i was already slightly anxious and about a week ago i started vaping and im also always concerned about what new meds might do to me or new substances like the ejuice the PG the VG etc.
so about 3 days ago i was finally completely off analogs and im feeling great. physically and emotionally. i vape 24mg juice and i love it. ive had no withdrawal symptoms at all. but i vape non stop. so last night i vaped and suddenly i felt very ill with sweating and shaking muscle twitching and extreme anxiety im not talking anything ive ever come close to experiencing i felt like i couldn't get my breath nausea total panic. it continued over an hour i couldn't even stay in the house because i felt like i could not breathe.

i know some of you will say i have anxiety d/o and so thats what it was.... maybe....

i was pretty convinced i had nicotine poisoning. so i went to ER. as soon as i told them i have a hx of anxiety they blew me off, so i called a psychiatrist i work with while i was sitting in the ER and i said doctor so and so, im dying here of nicotine poisoning and these idiots are blowing me off. I told him about the ejuice and that i sit in a small room and vape all day long he said "it sounds like you are having severe panic induced by a stimulant overdose. what does you ekg show because you could be having cardiac issues" i said i havent seen a doc and there is 40 ppl in front of me and they are acting like im just crazy. he said goto the desk and tell them your having a heart attck. i said no my heart is fine he said you cant know that. i said im not paying for tests i dont need. i said i need a blood nicotine lvl drawn. he said the results would take too long not to bother . he said Laura its like you smoked 50 packs of cigarettes. i said will i die from it? he said i doubt it. he said it will wear off after awhile. he said you need a shot of ativan in yr ..... lol.
so he says do you want me to call the er and talk to them i said yes and hung up. 1 min later they came and took me for an ekg. now i am going to seem nuts but 10 min later i was feeling considerably better. the nurse said they were trying to free up a bed for me (goes to prove in life.. its who you know, but anyways) i told her dont bother if i feel better in 45 min or so im going to leave. (now i do seem like a nut lol) so from 730pm i had not had any nicotine. most nicotine is gone in 6 hrs from the body most with in the 1st hr. so anyways, i did leave, never saw the ER doc. dunno what the ekg showed, but im sure it was fine. my VS were fine BP was 120/70 hr was 68 so...
about the time i got home it started again. i took 100mg of benadryl and went to bed. once i fell asleep massive night sweats and panic waking me up every 15 min or so. finally at 330am i decided to smoke 1/2 of an analog.... i felt better...i slept till 7am. woke up etc and it started again.. so 12 hrs no vaping so i concluded this cannot be nicotine overdose. ok so i decide to try a test. i smoked an analog and within 3 min all my symptoms were gone.
all that being said i havent vaped today, just analogs but im not willing to give up trying the vaping im going back to it tomorrow. the thing i hypothesize is this...... analogs have alot more than nicotine in them, multiple chemicals and toxins and from what ive read some sort of maoi's (which is antidepressants for those who dont know) i think this occurred due to withdrawal from the additives in the analogs more so than from nicotine withdrawal as ive said i haven't felt any withdrawal since upping my vaping to 24mg. the days i was still smoking the am analog i had no problems it wasn't until i ditched analogs completely for 2 days that this happened. any thoughts or opinions on the scenario?

btw i saw my regular doc today and got a script for zoloft which he said i should not have stopped in the first place and some ativan. i didnt tell him all about the ejuice because i really dont think the vaping itself is the issue besides hes from Peru and we have a language barrier and explaining ecigs to him just seemed to hard lolol.

my BP at his office today was 116/68 HR 66 those are vital signs of an athlete. so im sure im fine. i just want some opinions about things like how much nicotine builds up in the atmosphere of a small room vaping all day? do you think it was related to vaping or cigarette withdrawal? do you think im just a nut having a panic attack? sheer coincidence? id really love some feedback especially from other ppl who have experienced similar events

thanks all
i know its a long post sry

 

[MickiO]

could have been withdrawal symptoms, from stopping nicotine, alot of ppl experience increased anxiety from this, that's probably why you felt better after you got up and smoked 1/2 a cig. Maybe try going at it a little more gradual. Just work on cutting down your smokes and the amount of nic in your body first, let your body adjust more slowly over time to less nicotine, so it's not such a shock, idk

Just a thought, I do know that anxiety increases when you stop smoking or doing something your body is most comfortable & familiar with over the years, especially, in patients who have reported to have a history of anxiety disorder, I'm surprised your dr. didn't mention this.....probably since e-cigs are so new, and ppl tend to go to the extreme side of things with things in which they are least familiar. you know, they may simply have been merely leaning on the side of caution, the way they were taught to do in med school.

Stopping Zoloft suddenly as well as other anti-depressants can also cause this

i.e. withdrawal from anything, whether it's nicotine or meds, often causes sweats/anxiety/dizziness, feeling of intense panic, where the body reacts, and goes into"fight or flight" mode, adrenaline changes and other changes. Symptoms can vary from person to person

 

[nurse3766]

1st thanks for the reply
ok um i honestly dont think its nicotine withdrawal since ive had no withdrawal since vaping. i think its something else in the analogs.
i didn't tel my doc about the ejuice (the guy i saw today hes general practitioner). the guy i called in er is a psychiatrist i work with ie a co worker hes not my doc .he only had what i told him to go on, and i was freaking out that it was nicotine poisoning

honestly the reason i mentioned the smoke at 330 am is because it was an analog and the one this morning an analog and they both helped me.
i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms from nicotine per say ive smoked more than 30 yrs and have tried quitting a few times and believe me i know a nicotine craving when i get one but i haven't had that at all. i think vaping is sufficient for nicotine. im so sure its something else from those analogs.

 

[jj2]

Does sound like a form of withdrawal but keep seeing your doctor until this is over. If it don't go away fairly soon, tell him about vaping. I'm with you, I doubt if it has anything to do with what you are going through.

 

[MickiO]

1st thanks for the reply
ok um i honestly dont think its nicotine withdrawal since ive had no withdrawal since vaping. i think its something else in the analogs.
i didn't tel my doc about the ejuice (the guy i saw today hes general practitioner). the guy i called in er is a psychiatrist i work with ie a co worker hes not my doc .he only had what i told him to go on, and i was freaking out that it was nicotine poisoning

honestly the reason i mentioned the smoke at 330 am is because it was an analog and the one this morning an analog and they both helped me.
i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms from nicotine per say ive smoked more than 30 yrs and have tried quitting a few times and believe me i know a nicotine craving when i get one but i haven't had that at all. i think vaping is sufficient for nicotine. im so sure its something else from those analogs.

yes, I agree, that's why I mentioned to consider symptoms of withdrawal, whether that was nicotine, meds, or one of the other 4000+ things that are in tobacco smoke that nobody really knows about,



There was somebody I read on ECF that used huge amounts of nic-liquid purposely and had his blood tested for nicotine, and it barely registered at all, minute amount in his blood, even though he vaped heavily large amounts prior to the test.


just curious, how many mg of nic- is in the vaping liquid?

 

[nurse3766]

i got the zoloft i figure if it is something in the analogs like an antidepressant effect (you know they prescribe wellbutrin to stop smoking because we are all trying to self medicate lol thats the theory anyways i know i was tying to be cool at 12 yrs old )
anyways if theres an antidepressant compound in analogs it makes sense to me that stopping it could cause depression or anxiety.

i want to clarify to about the zoloft i had been off it for about a year so i didnt just stop it what i did was two weeks ago restart it at a very low dose 25mg because i was feeling anxious and so that started before the vaping. i need the zoloft i know i have a seritonin imbalance but like i said earlier im no different from anyone else on meds who feels better and eventually stops taking them..my bad

 

[nurse3766]

i also would like to know an accurate description of nic per ml of liquid. id also like to know if it stays in the room with you... my office is a very small room with no real ventilation.
that said tho im sure it wasn't nicotine overdose at this point, because if it was i wouldn't have had the symptoms return after 12 hrs of no nicotine.
i think as you mentioned earlier im going to continue the analogs 2-3 per day even tho i hate them now then slowly cut down and in a few weeks maybe i will be off those altogether. im also going to cut my ejuice to 15 mg rather than 24 that way i can vape my heart out without worrying about OD ing

im so thankful for the support ive gotten and ive seen others get on these boards

 

[need_2quit]

it doesn't sound like nic poisoning. seems i remember the first sign of nicotine poisoning is nausea.

stay on the zoloft and keep trying to vape, but don't push it. it will probably take a few weeks to get the zoloft levels to kick in and then you can try harder vaping again.

sorry you went through this. ER's suck. Not knowing what's wrong when you're having an attack sucks too.

just look for nausea next time you think you're od'g on vaping and if it's not there, it's something else.

i don't think we can withdraw from the 5,000 chemicals in analogs overnight, so give yourself time.

 

[need_2quit]

Acute nicotine toxicity

 

[kodykills]

Maybe, just maybe, it was all the drugs in your system..........

 

[nurse3766]

Maybe, just maybe, it was all the drugs in your system..........

um what drugs?
the nicotine? the PG? or the zoloft?
i dont have a crap load of drugs in my system so im confused as to what you mean

 

[MickiO]

i got the zoloft i figure if it is something in the analogs like an antidepressant effect (you know they prescribe wellbutrin to stop smoking because we are all trying to self medicate lol thats the theory anyways i know i was tying to be cool at 12 yrs old )
anyways if theres an antidepressant compound in analogs it makes sense to me that stopping it could cause depression or anxiety.

i want to clarify to about the zoloft i had been off it for about a year so i didnt just stop it what i did was two weeks ago restart it at a very low dose 25mg because i was feeling anxious and so that started before the vaping. i need the zoloft i know i have a seritonin imbalance but like i said earlier im no different from anyone else on meds who feels better and eventually stops taking them..my bad

Right, I can so relate my dear, I started at 15 yrs old myself, trying to be cool, lol, smoked 2 -3 packs a day for 31 yrs,x



I wish I could find that article I read on the net, it was written by a Physician who explained in great detail the link between anxiety/depression and analogs, xHe wrote an extensive article on an extensive study he did about affects of the unknown ingredients in tobacco/nicotine/and unknown ingredients, on those of us who have anxiety disorders and monitored what happens during withdrawal from analogs, and how nicotine itself has a calming affect on the nervous system. x


It was really interesting, and showed there are unknown things in cigs that work like anti-depressants and the body reacts the same when they are removed, That the body goes into a "fight or flight" mode just as when something tramatic where happening.


I know we all have our issues, lest we would never had turned to analogs, lol, I just know some ppl are more sensitive to physical changes in the body, I know, b/c I have MS and my nerves are like life wires, I was using 36mg nic at the start, and found my heart racing, so I had to use a lower amount, and I had sweats, and if I didn't know it was the nic level causing it, I could have had a major attack or fear. If I truly believed or feared nic poisoning, yeah, I would've been totally freaked out by it.


With some ppl, change send them off the edge. Others it makes them stronger, and many ppl, like myself, run from it, for years. Cigarettes for me, was an escape, something to hold onto, any heavy emotions or hard issues, I smoke like a smoke stack, Then I learned, feelings happen anyway, and they DO pass, so do changes and other events in life, that helped me make the transition from analogs to e-cigs, I face my feelings now head on, and allow myself to feel/experience life, instead of running away from it. and yes, e-cigs still gives me something to hold onto, but now it's a choice. My choice, not a "have to"

All I'm saying, is for each of us, this change of not smoking/vaping can affect us differently. And it helped me to go back and deal with those reasons I started smoking 31 yrs ago to begin with, and look at analogs as an old friend and just let 'em go, lol Because truth is, they are actually the enemy.....

 

[nurse3766]

i found this link and if this info is accurate i believe this is alot of the answer plus its very good at describing actually nicotine received in ecigs
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-i-think-i-know-about-vaping-vs-analogs.html

 

[jwood]

I can definitely relate to this, I've never had anxiety issues, never been on antidepressants or anything. You can imagine my surprise when I started vaping, quit smoking analogs cold turkey, and within a week started having anxiety attacks on a daily basis.

I'm sure you know that even a slight panic attack tends to feed off itself and make itself worse. Not knowing where these attacks came from made it that much worse for me.

Fast forward to a few weeks later, I was still wondering if I was totally losing my mind or if I was on the verge of a heart attack or something. An EKG showed nothing unusual at all, and I came across the idea of MAOI's in cigarettes causing withdrawals more so than the nicotine and suddenly it made sense.

For years I've been getting the equivalent of antidepressants through analogs and suddenly that stopped, no wonder I had these problems! Once I discovered this, the anxiety attacks were still there, but knowing what caused them made them significantly milder, and they have since become nonexistent.

Analog free for 10 weeks now and couldn't be happier!

 

[sms]

It'll be one month today since i switched to vaping. At 2 weeks 2 days I really started freaking about having an analog. Before that I really didn't want one. After two days of serious cravings I decided to have one. It was good and sucked at the same time. Since then i haven't wanted one really at all.
I do think there's many other things in analogs we are addicted to besides nic.

Vaping 24mg all day when you aren't used to it could be what triggered an attack for you. That combined with not having some of the other chemicals in the analogs.
I know if I use higher (for me 24) mg a lot my heart will race and I'll feel buzzed. If I use it later at night I can't sleep, even if my hearts not racing.
Everybody is different, maybe it just set something off for you. I'd try to limit how much you vape and treat it more like an analog.
Just my 2 cents

 

[dreamchildwest]

Today is my actual one-month anniversary of analog-free living. Fortunately, I have only had one episode of that intense craving for a "real" smoke...and I simply vaped my head off for a little while until it passed! I did NOT succumb; but it was close. (Not having any analogs in my possession also contributed to my conviction to never take up smoking again!!)

I started vaping at 24 mg, but ordered some 16 mg cartomizers (by mistake) and found that I transitioned to that level with ease. When I picked up my 24 mg carts again, I thought I was going to be sick. So, that's how I accidentally cut back on the nicotine...and it worked for me!

Don't give up on vaping...just take baby steps. Good luck!

 

[cos]

Hey Nurse3766
I totally understand how you feel. I have severe PTSD for 40 years. I have panic attacks, anxiety, cholostrophia, depression. I am currently on the following meds from the VA. Paxil, Wellbuten, and 2 clonazepam a day(like a valium but slightly stronger). I smoked marlboro reds and then lights for 44 years. 2 months ago i switched to vaping. From the start i bought 36mg of liquids. i figured if that was too strong i could cut it down. well i cut down some and some left straight. found out on less than 36mg i didnt get a throat hit. well to be honest i need 36mg to get a throat hit with my 401 and i can get a throat hit on 24mg with my KR808. anyway back to the issue here. I have no problems at all with vaping. I dont get panic attacks nor do i freak out or get over anxious when i vape. I do however smoke 2 analogs in the morning when i first get up with coffee. first cup of coffee i have a anolog then 2nd cup of coffee have another anolog. after that i vape and no more anologs. sometimes at 10 pm or so i am looking for a good TH and i may have to take another anolog. sometimes i do and sometimes i dont. more so i do. Im just telling you i dont know what your problem is. I told my va pychiatrists (i have 2 i see weekly) that i vape and it just has nicotine in them. they said great. and they even mentioned that nicotine is addictive as we all know but the way i use it will not hurt you. Now we didnt get into mixing or what have you as those high strengths can make you sick. im talkking 48mg and 60mg and higher. But they were very please i am trying to get off real smokes. So back to your problem. i think you really need to have tests done and see a doc. do not try to analize this yourself. Let the doc do that. i dont care if he is from Peru and doesnt speak good english or what. just do it. Everytime the VA gives me a new medicine. i tell them will this new pill go with what i am taking now. I also am on some very strong pain meds for my spine issues. and again no problems when i vape and i vape a lot. that cart is always in my mouth i tell ya. and i am vaping 24mg to 36mg. so i hope this helps you. Your prolem can be anything as you know. your trying to guess here. just get your proper tests. and if the docs or staff give you a hard time go elsewhere. Something is not right. not trying to scare you but your body is trying to tell you something. your a nurse you already know this. 1 more thing most of the liquid is made with PG or VG or 50 50 and nic and flavoring. maybe its the flavoring who knows. some suppliers even make the herbal liquid. i myself took the ingredients of this herbal liquid and brought this to my docs at the VA and also to my Pain doc and showed them the ingredients. they said nothing yto worry about. doing this is my responsibility and because i am taking all different meds i have to know whats inside the liquid i vape. I do hope this helps you. sorry to go on and on. thats another problem i have. i go on and on and on. but i go very much in detail dont ya think lol. Good luck to you and let us know.

 

[DaMulta]

I think you were over thinking it which made you sick......

Someone took a blood test that was vapping 36Mg non stop, and it didn't even show up as a full blown smoker.


Clearly you have some slight mental issues, and so I can see you over thinking yourself to were you made yourself sick over it.

 

[Notwell25]

I recently went through a similar occurrence, though I didnt go to the ER.

First off, Ive been vaping for just under 2 months now, still smoke 2-3 analogs per day, and was a 1 1/2 pack a day smoker previously . I never wanted to quit, I just wanted a cheaper, healthier alternative. Anyways, about a week ago I started noticing restless sleep accompanied by some very vivid dreams. I heard excess nicotine can do that to people on occasion, but I vaped on heavily anyways (26mg). I do like dreaming! Two days later, my joints started aching, my head felt "heavy", and I Started to feel nauseated. I couldn't sleep for more than 2 hours at a time, always waking with cold sweats. This lasted for two days. A fear a becoming sick and a having a complete lack of energy, I stayed in bed. No matter how sick I have been in the past, I always stubbornly had to have my smokes regardless... but not this time. I had no desire for either my PV or analogs what so ever.

At the time, I did not attribute any of this to an overdose of nicotine or as a withdrawal of analogs. But after not developing any typical symptoms of being sick, (coughing, sneezing, sniffles, sinuses, sore through, ect) I knew it had to be something else.

I am fine now and back to vaping... but just a little less this time.

 

[keyzygirl]

If you cant say something nice,then dont say anything at all.