Last night in the ER

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Raenon

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The specific nicotine content seems to have very little bearing on how much nicotine you absorb from the vapor. The forum is full of stories of people either using massive levels and feeling nothing, and others who are using more normal ranges but for long periods, and overdosing.

I think it has far more to do with how you vape, your inhalation, whether you're rebreathing it, if you give it time to settle on the surfaces of your respiratory system and be absorbed as such.

I still think people are ridiculous for starting at 24/36/48mg. I started with "high" 16mg and still wonder if it wasn't too much.
 

cos

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Raenon why is it rediculous to start at 24 36? sorry i dont think i agree. But that is your right to express yourself. I myself know i need a good Throat Hit. if i can get a good TH without 24 or 36mg please tell me and i will give it a shot. everyone here is different. just because some dont start with a higher level of nic doesnt make IT rediculous. But i will agree with what you said about 48mg. But wont call it rediculous. its up to the individual to use common sense on what mg they want to vape. its not our business to say its right or wrong, nor to critisize them for doing so. sorry just my 2 cents.
 

Raven1

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I think what you had was a panic attack. I have anxiety disorder and used to get them as well. I have been on Zoloft for years - 25 mg. a day is not enough to stop your symptoms. You need to take 50 or more to get any relief from this (you can read your meds pamphlet or look the recommended dosage amounts up online). I've gone down from 200 mg. to 100 mg. over the years, but anything less than 75 mg. and I start getting anxiety. Keep taking the Ativan until the Zoloft starts working in your system (this can take from 2 to 4 weeks).

I'd also suggest to vape with a lower amount of nicotine, as I've had reactions from higher mgs. as well.
 

Raven1

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Forgot to mention - I too had a similar panic reaction the first week I started vaping and had cut down on analogues. I am sure my body was reacting to properties in the analogues that my body wasn't getting enough of (started a thread about it too). The second week it was better, though I was still having some analogue withdrawal.

My advice would be to cut down on the analogues gradually, which is what I'm now doing - I decrease it by one cig every few days (am now down to 7 a day). This has really helped! Good luck and don't give up.
 

oldlady

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Thank you for sharing your experience.

From the studies I have seen thus far, the vapor (mostly water and some propylene glycol) from e-cigarettes disburses into the air pretty instantly. I doubt vaping in a small room would cause a problem.

Like you, I am fairly new to vaping. I got my e-cig starter kit about three weeks ago and gave up analogs the following week. Also, like you, I vape almost constantly. I refill my own cartomizers (18 drops to a cart). I am using 2 18 mg carts and 1 24 mg cart per day. So far, no problems. . .

Some studies suggest that the actual amount of nicotine we get from vaping is far less than that from regular tobacco cigarettes. This is because the nicotine is carried on water/pg rather than on ash (cumbusted "smoke"). Apparently, this is one of the reasons we tend to vape more than we ever smoked at least initially.

As you noted, we do not get any of the other chemicals (except maybe the occasional trace amount of antifreeze-LOL) routinely contained in regular cigarettes.

Having said all that, the e-liquids we use are not tested individually and there are no "industry standards" for laboratory environments.preparations, etc at play here. Therefore, there is always a risk that someone could get a cart or a bottle of liquid that is somehow contaminated. Given the current state of play among suppliers of an emerging technology, the risk of contamination/error is probably greater for vapers than it is for smokers.

One of the benefits of this forum is users' ability to share their experiences.

What brand of e-liquid are you using? Where did you get it? Please let us know whether you experience any other symptoms/recurrences. Perhaps you should trash that bottle and start a new one?
 
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Raenon

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You're right, my post is probably a bit harsh on what is definitely a personal preference.

Raenon why is it rediculous to start at 24 36? sorry i dont think i agree. But that is your right to express yourself. I myself know i need a good Throat Hit. if i can get a good TH without 24 or 36mg please tell me and i will give it a shot. everyone here is different. just because some dont start with a higher level of nic doesnt make IT rediculous. But i will agree with what you said about 48mg. But wont call it rediculous. its up to the individual to use common sense on what mg they want to vape. its not our business to say its right or wrong, nor to critisize them for doing so. sorry just my 2 cents.
 

nurse3766

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Nov 25, 2009
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I think what you had was a panic attack. I have anxiety disorder and used to get them as well. I have been on Zoloft for years - 25 mg. a day is not enough to stop your symptoms. You need to take 50 or more to get any relief from this (you can read your meds pamphlet or look the recommended dosage amounts up online). I've gone down from 200 mg. to 100 mg. over the years, but anything less than 75 mg. and I start getting anxiety. Keep taking the Ativan until the Zoloft starts working in your system (this can take from 2 to 4 weeks).

I'd also suggest to vape with a lower amount of nicotine, as I've had reactions from higher mgs. as well.
hi raven
thanks all who have posted so far. honestly its very helpful to see so many ppl have had similar experiences. i wish none of us did, but thats life. so raven i started back on 50mg of zoloft last night i usually have considerable relief from the anxiety in 3-5 days on zoloft, so im going to give this dose a few days (everyone different). my doc said i can go to 150mg if i want to, but i prefer to start slow (less is better imo). im smoking my analogs atm
im not back to vaping yet because i want to wait for the PG i ordered to arrive so i can cut my juice a bit.

i believe its just a combination of things the analogs and the anxiety but im positive it wasnt the vaping :)
 
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frankie1

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I have never taken meds for any psych problems. About a month into vaping, I had cut down to 2-3 analogs/day. Had a very similar episode. Heart pounding in my ears, anxiety (fear of having heart attack), restless legs, slight nausea/dizziness, and spasmodic jerking in my hands, shaky legs. When I got warm (blanket in FL, outside, in Sept) and SMOKED an analog, I immediately felt better. Has happened several times, always when I limit analogs. Have seen an internist, emergency medical physician and a cardiologist. Had a heart study, nuclear stress test and an echo, several EKGs. NO problems found. Internist looked at eliquid, saw no problem and said could be from tobacco withdrawal. Cardiologist has me on blood pressure meds (low dose) to see how that works out. No one can find anything wrong with my heart. So I am thinking, it is from tobacco withdrawal. I am back to more analogs a day and cutting down more gradually.

Here is an excellent thread on this forum and a chemist who is a member has done extensive research on the missing alkaloids in e liquid. It is a long thread, but highly interesting! They also looked at how much nicotine is actually absorbed.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html
 

Mordred

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Oct 27, 2009
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1st thanks for the reply
ok um i honestly dont think its nicotine withdrawal since ive had no withdrawal since vaping. i think its something else in the analogs.

i think vaping is sufficient for nicotine. im so sure its something else from those analogs.

Look up MAOI (monoamine oxydase inhibitors). They are contained in tobacco and have anti-depressant qualities in and of themselves plus they increase the effect of nicotine.

If you have psychiatric issues, I would strongly recommend that you DON'T quit smoking, or switch to another tobacco-product, such as Snus.
 

nurse3766

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Nov 25, 2009
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im going to smoke analogs a bit, a couple throughout the day and vape in between then slowly cut down on analogs.
i love vaping and after 2 days of it, hated analogs and was disgusted by them so i just stopped using them. im going to take it slower this time. and cut my juice to 18-20mg so i wont have to worry at all about too much nicotine (which im certain now was not the problem anyway)
i think it was analog withdrawal combined with underlying anxiety disorder and all those chemicals leaving my brain at once just was too much. brain was going wild.

once again i cant say this enough im grateful for all of you brave enough to share your experiences, i know these things are personal. i appreciate your candor.
 

Mordred

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im going to smoke analogs a bit, a couple throughout the day and vape in between then slowly cut down on analogs.
i love vaping and after 2 days of it, hated analogs and was disgusted by them so i just stopped using them. im going to take it slower this time. and cut my juice to 18-20mg so i wont have to worry at all about too much nicotine (which im certain now was not the problem anyway)
i think it was analog withdrawal combined with underlying anxiety disorder and all those chemicals leaving my brain at once just was too much. brain was going wild.

once again i cant say this enough im grateful for all of you brave enough to share your experiences, i know these things are personal. i appreciate your candor.

We're all addicts here and most of us are probably mad too, so you're welcome. ;=)

Seriously though, our nervous system is a very complex machine, many of the parts of which are poorly understood by todays science. Changing your brain chemistry, be it by taking a drug or by getting off a drug, can possibly unsettle the entire system.

Take it slow.
 

me144

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1st thanks for the reply
ok um i honestly dont think its nicotine withdrawal since ive had no withdrawal since vaping. i think its something else in the analogs.
i didn't tel my doc about the ejuice (the guy i saw today hes general practitioner). the guy i called in er is a psychiatrist i work with ie a co worker hes not my doc .he only had what i told him to go on, and i was freaking out that it was nicotine poisoning :)

honestly the reason i mentioned the smoke at 330 am is because it was an analog and the one this morning an analog and they both helped me.
i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms from nicotine per say ive smoked more than 30 yrs and have tried quitting a few times and believe me i know a nicotine craving when i get one but i haven't had that at all. i think vaping is sufficient for nicotine. im so sure its something else from those analogs.

I have a client that has been telling me when she smoke analogs now she gets terrible headaches, anxiety and her heart races. She's try real hard to kick them altogether. I'm wondering if your not experiencing the same thing. I know personally if I vape high nic strengths I get anxiety something terrible so I stick to 11mg ... just my personal preference.

(sorry mods not trying to post any advertisement here, just comparing notes)
 

Raven1

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hi raven
thanks all who have posted so far. honestly its very helpful to see so many ppl have had similar experiences. i wish none of us did, but thats life. so raven i started back on 50mg of zoloft last night i usually have considerable relief from the anxiety in 3-5 days on zoloft, so im going to give this dose a few days (everyone different). my doc said i can go to 150mg if i want to, but i prefer to start slow (less is better imo). im smoking my analogs atm


Nurse - I'm glad to hear you upped your Zoloft mg. That should help and yes, increasing the dosage slowly won't give you as many side effects from the meds. Tobacco withdrawal is not an easy thing for some people, particularly ones like us! Going slow in reducing the analogues has helped me considerably. I also take Klonopin occasionally (similar to Ativan) to help when my anxiety level is too high.
 

MrNYFC

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First, those are not Sx of nicotine withdrawal, nor do I think those are symptoms of nicotine overdose.

There are other drugs in your system. Were you a long time user of lorazepam or any other any benzodiazepine? The problem with benzo's is that they do NOT mix well with nicotine. Smokers are advised not to smoke while using this drug, as it seems to decrease the effectiveness of the drug. Therefore, they are prone to take more to reach the desired effect thus increasing their body's resistance to the drug. This is a cocktail for addiction.

IMO, stay on the sertraline. Anything less than 25mg won't do anything for you, so don't even bother. You may want to start with sertraline 25mg q.d. and see how that works for you. You might want to also think about adding a low dose of propanolol. Please consult your physician before you add, alter, or otherwise change a medication or course of therapy that he or she has prescribed for you.

Another thing...don't worry so much. Things will get better. Cheers.
 

nurse3766

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First, those are not Sx of nicotine withdrawal, nor do I think those are symptoms of nicotine overdose.

There are other drugs in your system. Were you a long time user of lorazepam or any other any benzodiazepine? The problem with benzo's is that they do NOT mix well with nicotine. Smokers are advised not to smoke while using this drug, as it seems to decrease the effectiveness of the drug. Therefore, they are prone to take more to reach the desired effect thus increasing their body's resistance to the drug. This is a cocktail for addiction.

IMO, stay on the sertraline. Anything less than 25mg won't do anything for you, so don't even bother. You may want to start with sertraline 25mg q.d. and see how that works for you. You might want to also think about adding a low dose of propanolol. Please consult your physician before you add, alter, or otherwise change a medication or course of therapy that he or she has prescribed for you.

Another thing...don't worry so much. Things will get better. Cheers.
no i dont have any drugs like benzos in my system especially before this happened. in fact ive never used ativan or xanax or valium or any of that before. ive been off zoloft for over a year and had just started getting mild anxiety about 2 wks or so before i started vaping so i restarted on 25mg of zoloft. 25 isnt enough and it never has been but i thought id try it. besides that my old Rx was actually expired over a year ago so there is a possibility it wasnt even giving 25mg. i should edit the first post because ive said a couple times since the first one that im sure it was cigarette withdrawal but not nicotine posioning. im on the zoloft 50mg and analogs now and this is my 3rd day and its made a huge improvement. i think its from coming off analogs that this has happened it started almost 3 days after i stopped them completely. that and the fact that i was getting ready to start going through the anxiety cycle again anyways.
so to clarify 3 weeks ago zero drugs in my system other than the 4000 chemicals in analogs
2 weeks ago 25mg zoloft only
last week e juice PG type
and this week analogs and zoloft 50mg so far ive only used 1 ativan and i doubt ill need more im feeling alot better.
im waiting on some PG to come in the mail so i can cut my 24mg juice to about 12mg that way i can assure my self im not getting to much and im going to smoke a couple analogs a day and slowwwwwwly ween myself from them.

and since my blood pressure and heart rate are (BP110/60-120/70 and HR60-70) excellent i would never take a beta blocker like propanolol nor would any doctor prescribe it for anxiety that i know of. using it for anxiety would not only be off lable it would be wayyyyy off label.

heres the side effects of beta blockers, beta blockers are dangerous. please folks dont try this sort of thing without your doctor explaining wth hes prescribing it in the first place.

i know some people are using this for stage freight, stupid and dangerous imo.

Adverse effects

Adverse drug reactions (ADRs) associated with the use of beta blockers include: nausea, ........, bronchospasm, dyspnea, cold extremities, exacerbation of Raynaud's syndrome, bradycardia, hypotension, heart failure, heart block, fatigue, dizziness, abnormal vision, decreased concentration, hallucinations, insomnia, nightmares, clinical depression, sexual dysfunction, erectile dysfunction and/or alteration of glucose and lipid metabolism. Mixed α1/β-antagonist therapy is also commonly associated with orthostatic hypotension. Carvedilol therapy is commonly associated with edema.[2]

Central nervous system (CNS) adverse effects (hallucinations, insomnia, nightmares, depression) are more common in agents with greater lipid solubility, which are able to cross the blood-brain barrier into the CNS. Similarly, CNS adverse effects are less common in agents with greater aqueous solubility (listed below).

Adverse effects associated with β2-adrenergic receptor antagonist activity (bronchospasm, peripheral vasoconstriction, alteration of glucose and lipid metabolism) are less common with β1-selective (often termed "cardioselective") agents, however receptor selectivity diminishes at higher doses. Beta blockade, especially of the beta-1 receptor at the macula densa inhibits renin release, thus decreasing the release of aldosterone. This causes hyponatremia and hyperkalemia.

A 2007 study revealed that diuretics and beta-blockers used for hypertension increase a patient's risk of developing diabetes while ACE inhibitors and Angiotensin II receptor antagonists (Angiotensin Receptor Blockers) actually decrease the risk of diabetes.[12] Clinical guidelines in Great Britain, but not in the United States, call for avoiding diuretics and beta-blockers as first-line treatment of hypertension due to the risk of diabetes.[13]

Beta blockers must not be used in the treatment of ......., amphetamine, or other alpha adrenergic stimulant overdose. The blockade of only beta receptors increases hypertension, reduces coronary blood flow, left ventricular function, and cardiac output and tissue perfusion by means of leaving the alpha adrenergic system stimulation unopposed. [14] The appropriate antihypertensive drugs to administer during hypertensive crisis resulting from stimulant abuse are vasodilators like nitroglycerin, diuretics like furosemide and alpha blockers like phentolamine. [15]
 
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kcomfort001

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Nov 16, 2009
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1st thanks for the reply
ok um i honestly dont think its nicotine withdrawal since ive had no withdrawal since vaping. i think its something else in the analogs.
i didn't tel my doc about the ejuice (the guy i saw today hes general practitioner). the guy i called in er is a psychiatrist i work with ie a co worker hes not my doc .he only had what i told him to go on, and i was freaking out that it was nicotine poisoning :)

honestly the reason i mentioned the smoke at 330 am is because it was an analog and the one this morning an analog and they both helped me.
i haven't had any withdrawal symptoms from nicotine per say ive smoked more than 30 yrs and have tried quitting a few times and believe me i know a nicotine craving when i get one but i haven't had that at all. i think vaping is sufficient for nicotine. im so sure its something else from those analogs.


I think you just freaked out thought one thing and then let your brain run with it..

For the first week or two I was paranoid about nicotine poisoning constantly washing it off my hands constantly spitting it out if a little got in my mouth, etc..etc.. I'm not saying don't be careful but now I don't even pay attention to those things anymore... I even got to the point where I thought I was getting antsy and not getting enough nicotine and kept puffing and puffing then started thinking I'm overdosing, really it was all in my head etc.. I didn't even have the shakes

Ever smoke alot of cigarettes in a short period of time .. start getting a headache, start getting shaky, start getting nauseous.. haven't had any of that with vaping but I'm a paranoid person as well.
 
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