Leaford:

[BanjoMan]

It's great to see you back on the forum. You have truly been missed.

You made a post earlier in the now-huge E2 cartomizer thread that got zapped. Sadly I missed that post but I did see your invite to start a thread here, so I'm starting.

I've read here that you haven't given up on the filler-less carto idea. What exactly are the changes that need to be made in your opinion, and what do you know about the current manufacturer? Is Bloog thinking of coming out with something of their own to compete?

I've been using the E2's exclusively for close to two months now and while they have some bugs and QC issues, I think they show great potential.

 

[WiηgC¤mmαηdεя]

I missed your post as well Leaford and would also be interested.

All the best,
Wing.

 

[Turbo]

Good idea 'banjo'. Here was my reply to his that got zapped:

Good to hear from you Leaford, insightful post. One thing we've been discussing on this thread has been the issue w/ QC so it's interesting to hear your viewpoint on their facilities. They seemed to have the ability to make these changes by the week in some cases, so it's not surprising to hear that. On the other hand, the QC has been an issue, some people have been getting 'frankenstein' cartos full of surprises, wrong orders, etc. The true r4's have been getting good reviews so far.

All in all, those of us that have been using these since the beginning feel they beat filler cartos hands down. If we can get consistent products I'll be happy.

 

[leaford]

Hey, good to see you guys, thanks for coming by!

Well, first off, here's the deleted post you are referring to:

Hi everyone! WOW there has been a lot of discussion about these cartos!



For anyone who hasn't heard, I had a lot to do with these cartos birth. I met Martinez my first trip here, through a mutual friend, Paul. He didn't make any compatible model to what we sold at V4L at the time, but he was a great guy, with one of the most impressive factories in terms of both facilities, and QC and R&D resources. And he had a history of designing good models. THe 401 was his creation, back when he was with Smoore.



SO I asked them to see what they could do with cartomizers. And I told them that the biggest problem with cartomizers was that the filler would burn, and that kept many people from trying them. I suggested developing a filler-less carto, and a few months later, when I was back in the US, the result was the E2 cartos.



But, of course, that first version was not ready for the market, and we had to reject them. And then my Mom got sick and passed away, and I had to take some time away from work and the industry. And apparently things have kept changing and developing while I've been away.



I've only been able to skim a fraction of this massive thread, but I see some invaluable info here, and obviously badkolo has picked up the ball I dropped and RAN RAN RAN with it!



I am now with Bloog, back in China, and should be getting together with Martinez soon to check on their progress with the E2. If it has been well and truly de-bugged, we may very well pick it up as a second model to accompany our new improved Fusion.

OK, now let me answer your specific questions in a new post window.

 

[leaford]

It's great to see you back on the forum. You have truly been missed.

You made a post earlier in the now-huge E2 cartomizer thread that got zapped. Sadly I missed that post but I did see your invite to start a thread here, so I'm starting.

I've read here that you haven't given up on the filler-less carto idea. What exactly are the changes that need to be made in your opinion, and what do you know about the current manufacturer? Is Bloog thinking of coming out with something of their own to compete?

I've been using the E2's exclusively for close to two months now and while they have some bugs and QC issues, I think they show great potential.

TO be honest my personal knowledge is a bit out of date. The last sample I had was the original version, which we all know had problems with the wick burning.

That was just before my mother got sick, and after that I followed the first thread about the CE2 through the first revision or two. But after that I wasn't following much of anything, I kinda withdrew from everything for awhile.

Next week I will tour their factory again, and get samples of the latest revision, and can tell you then what I think. I like what I've heard you guys say about the R4, though. And I want to give BIG kudos to badkolo, and everyone else who followed up on this model and helped push Microcig/Royalsmoker to improve it. As I said, I dropped the ball, BK picked it up and ran, ran, RAN with it! BIG thumbs up!

 

[BanjoMan]

Well, since you have yet to get together with Martinez and check the E2 progress this is probably an unfair question, but judging from the posts and pictures by members who have been ordering these, the quality control appears to be severly lacking. Ohm ratings aren't even close to those advertised, and people are getting older revisions mixed with newer ones (I've experienced both of those myself). I've also had some very nasty ones with glue inside, which has been another fairly common problem. Microcig doesn't seem to be too concerned about it, which makes me wonder just what the heck is going on over there.

Any chance someone else will market a similar product in the near future?

 

[mwa102464]

Good questions Banjoman, I would think since Leaford is now with Bloog that he might just be all over this and want to be the best in the business when it comes to cartos so time will tell. I really am hoping the 250 I have coming from the CN Shop are all decent for the most part. I would like to know what this "Fusion" brand carto that Leaford mentioned in another post is exactly.

 

[leaford]

Good idea 'banjo'. Here was my reply to his that got zapped:

Good to hear from you Leaford, insightful post. One thing we've been discussing on this thread has been the issue w/ QC so it's interesting to hear your viewpoint on their facilities. They seemed to have the ability to make these changes by the week in some cases, so it's not surprising to hear that. On the other hand, the QC has been an issue, some people have been getting 'frankenstein' cartos full of surprises, wrong orders, etc. The true r4's have been getting good reviews so far.

All in all, those of us that have been using these since the beginning feel they beat filler cartos hands down. If we can get consistent products I'll be happy.

As far as QC goes, the unspoken part of what I wrote, which I really REALLY should have stated, was, "at the time." AT THE TIME they were the best factory in terms of testing and QC that I had seen. They did the same minimal QC tests during assembly as all the other factories, plus they had a couple of automated testing machines, and most impressive to me (again AT THE TIME) they had an electron microscope to verify the material composition of their supplies. And they had the cleanest and best organized factory facilities.

Later in that trip, however, I did find one other factory with MUCH more extensive QC and testing, including twice as many automated testing machines and VERY extensive records of their results. Their general manufacturing practices were also superior. I shared info on that with several other manufacturers, including Microcig, and encouraged them to raise their standards and practices to match.

One factory, a new one opened by an engineer from one of the factories I shared that info with, took those ideas and not only matched, but exceed them. They are now, hands down, the best factory I am aware of, in terms of QC, testing, and general manufacturing practices. And that's who I am going with for Bloog's next model to replace the current Kanger-made Fusion. It will still be 100% KR8 compatible, but much, MUCH better quality, performance, and reliability. Long term durability is harder to judge from personal testing, but their testing records are impressive, and everything I can test myself has been consistent with their claims, so I have confidence in their long term durability as well. That should be on our shelves by next month.

But anyway, getting back to Microcig and the CE2, I know they have changed and expanded their factory. And they had a good factory to begin with, not the best I found, but much better than average. And Martinez himself is a smart guy, and I am sure he saw the advantage to the improvements I suggested. So I am looking forward to seeing their new facilities, and really hope to see improved manufacturing and QC practices. Who knows, he might even have surpassed my current favorite.

My only source of doubt is that I have also found out that he partnered with Kanger to do his expansion. And Kanger has about the worst quality of all the major manufacturers, IMO. So that's a reason for concern. Big time.

So, the QC problems you saw may have been from the old facilities. The improvement you've seen from the R4's may be from the new facilities. But that's only just speculation, of course, at this point, and there is some cause in my mind for concern.

I will let you all know what I find out next week. With pics, if I can.

 

[leaford]

Well, since you have yet to get together with Martinez and check the E2 progress this is probably an unfair question, but judging from the posts and pictures by members who have been ordering these, the quality control appears to be severly lacking. Ohm ratings aren't even close to those advertised, and people are getting older revisions mixed with newer ones (I've experienced both of those myself). I've also had some very nasty ones with glue inside, which has been another fairly common problem. Microcig doesn't seem to be too concerned about it, which makes me wonder just what the heck is going on over there.

Any chance someone else will market a similar product in the near future?

I'm glad you've pointed those problems out. It's something I will be watching and checking on if I proceed with them.

As for someone else, Kanger is apparently going to, but I wouldn't look to them for any better QC.

 

[Turbo]

As far as QC goes, the unspoken part of what I wrote, which I really REALLY should have stated, was, "at the time." AT THE TIME they were the best factory in terms of testing and QC that I had seen. They did the same minimal QC tests during assembly as all the other factories, plus they had a couple of automated testing machines, and most impressive to me (again AT THE TIME) they had an electron microscope to verify the material composition of their supplies. And they had the cleanest and best organized factory facilities.

Later in that trip, however, I did find one other factory with MUCH more extensive QC and testing, including twice as many automated testing machines and VERY extensive records of their results. Their general manufacturing practices were also superior. I shared info on that with several other manufacturers, including Microcig, and encouraged them to raise their standards and practices to match.

One factory, a new one opened by an engineer from one of the factories I shared that info with, took those ideas and not only matched, but exceed them. They are now, hands down, the best factory I am aware of, in terms of QC, testing, and general manufacturing practices. And that's who I am going with for Bloog's next model to replace the current Kanger-made Fusion. It will still be 100% KR8 compatible, but much, MUCH better quality, performance, and reliability. Long term durability is harder to judge from personal testing, but their testing records are impressive, and everything I can test myself has been consistent with their claims, so I have confidence in their long term durability as well. That should be on our shelves by next month.

But anyway, getting back to Microcig and the CE2, I know they have changed and expanded their factory. And they had a good factory to begin with, not the best I found, but much better than average. And Martinez himself is a smart guy, and I am sure he saw the advantage to the improvements I suggested. So I am looking forward to seeing their new facilities, and really hope to see improved manufacturing and QC practices. Who knows, he might even have surpassed my current favorite.

My only source of doubt is that I have also found out that he partnered with Kanger to do his expansion. And Kanger has about the worst quality of all the major manufacturers, IMO. So that's a reason for concern. Big time.

So, the QC problems you saw may have been from the old facilities. The improvement you've seen from the R4's may be from the new facilities. But that's only just speculation, of course, at this point, and there is some cause in my mind for concern.

I will let you all know what I find out next week. With pics, if I can.

Thanks for your reply. This industry has changed leap and bounds since the e-cig hit market. It's exciting to keep up w/ these leaps and you're in the midst. I look forward to your updates.

 

[BanjoMan]

Good to hear Leaford, I'll be waiting for your thoughts after you've had time to check them out personally.

These new cartos that will replace the current Fusion: I assume they'll have filler(?). Any chance we'll see a 510 version?

And to add: Problems aside, the current E2's (properly modded and/or at the right voltage) beat anything I've ever used hands down. It's the only reason I've stuck with these and continue to push for improvements.

 

[leaford]

Good questions Banjoman, I would think since Leaford is now with Bloog that he might just be all over this and want to be the best in the business when it comes to cartos so time will tell. I really am hoping the 250 I have coming from the CN Shop are all decent for the most part. I would like to know what this "Fusion" brand carto that Leaford mentioned in another post is exactly.

Yes, I will absolutely be all over this. I gave them at least the inspiration that gave birth to it, so I feel a bit of a vested interest in it. But in the end, quality is all that matters, so if they can't get consistent quality, I won't go with them.

As for the Fusion, that is Bloog's current model. It is a standard KR8 from Kanger. Batteries pretty much equivalent to V4L's, cartos pretty much equivalent to V4L's original cartos, before I discovered the first LR cartos, which became V4L's Premiums and CoolCarts. So basically, right now they are like V4L's pre-leaford product.

But I have already found a successor to Bloog's Fusion. Still 100% KR8 compatible, but much better quality and performance. And as I mentioned above, they have the best QC, testing, and general manufacturing practices I have seen yet.

And on a wholly personal note, they also have the BEST bathrooms of any factory I have seen yet. Not only do they have an actual western style sit down toilet for guests, their sink has actual paper towels to dry the hands, instead of one shared hand towel which is filthy within the first hour of the day!

This has LOOONG been a pet peeve of mine. Sure, I worked hard to make sure that the cartomizer fillers had high sanitation standards at least when working on my orders, but there was nothing I could do about general bathroom conditions, except try my damndest to not need to use them!!

 

[leaford]

These new cartos that will replace the current Fusion: I assume they'll have filler(?). Any chance we'll see a 510 version?

Yes, they have filler, but finding a burn-resistant carto was my TOP priority this time around. ANd these are easily the most burn resistant I have found yet. I've been through at least a couple dozen so far, and none of them have burned in normal use. Not even the typical small scorch mark on the innermost layer of fabric. I have had to deliberatly push past the point where it is obviously dry and producing little or no vapor to get it to burn at all, and even then, I get just one or two burnt tasting puffs before the heating coil burns out and it stops functioning. THen when I break it open, there is one small, pinhead sized burnt spot in the innermost layer of filler. That's it. And again, you have to ignore the OBVIOUS drop in vapor and keep puffing anyway to get that. If you refill when the vapor drops, no burning at all.

And as for 510, sorry, these will be KR8 compatibles. Bloog just switched to KR8s a couple months or so ago, and we aren't going to force existing customers to change all their batts and accessories again.

And to add: Problems aside, the current E2's (properly modded and/or at the right voltage) beat anything I've ever used hands down. It's the only reason I've stuck with these and continue to push for improvements.

Well, I will see for myself how the R4 does. And I will let you know how it compares to the fillered type I have chosen for the next Fusion upgrade. But those qualifiers, ie, "properly modded," and "right voltage," give me more pause for concern. If it has to be modded, it isn't good enough. If it has to have the exact right voltage, they had better make a battery to suit. It will have to work right, right out of the box, or it is just not good enough.

I'm looking for something for the mainstream vapers, not something for the modders and hobbiests.

 

[WiηgC¤mmαηdεя]

Well, I will see for myself how the R4 does. And I will let you know how it compares to the fillered type I have chosen for the next Fusion upgrade. But those qualifiers, ie, "properly modded," and "right voltage," give me more pause for concern. If it has to be modded, it isn't good enough. If it has to have the exact right voltage, they had better make a battery to suit. It will have to work right, right out of the box, or it is just not good enough.

I'm looking for something for the mainstream vapers, not something for the modders and hobbiests.

Glad to hear that Leaford, and that parallels my thinking. I can mod them for good performance, but I know my wife couldn't.
That's what will make the C-E2's a winner is if they become a consistent easy to use out of the box product for vapers.

My wife is a dedicated smoker who is dabbling with vaping as I blend new flavors for her to try, but definitely does not want to have to fiddling with equipment to get a consistent vape.

Looking forward to your findings and comments.
All the best,
Wing.

 

[BanjoMan]

Well, I will see for myself how the R4 does. And I will let you know how it compares to the fillered type I have chosen for the next Fusion upgrade. But those qualifiers, ie, "properly modded," and "right voltage," give me more pause for concern. If it has to be modded, it isn't good enough. If it has to have the exact right voltage, they had better make a battery to suit. It will have to work right, right out of the box, or it is just not good enough.

I'm looking for something for the mainstream vapers, not something for the modders and hobbiests.

I agree with you in principle. If these had been produced with a higher ohm rating to begin with I think more than half of the complaints would have never surfaced. The "burnt" taste everyone was complaining about was primarily a problem of using a 2.6 ohm carto on a 3.3v battery or 3.7v mod. 3 ohms would have worked much better. I'm currently using the old revision 2 (plastic cup) E2's on a variable mod and they're perfectly fine at around 2.8v. The wicking system just can't keep up with a voltage higher than needed. I'm surprised their own R&D didn't show them that.

 

[mwa102464]

I don't understand why everything MUST be KR8, how hard can it be to make a run of cartos in 510 it's a one part change in the process, you will also be limiting your business with sale to only sell KR8's. It would be nice to see at least a 510 version to go with the KR8's, adapters are fine but shouldn't be needed, especially with these factories being so up to date I don't understand with only one part being needed to change from KR8 to 510 why they wouldn't make runs of each to capture both clients needs.

Thank you for your answers and input Leaford it's cool to see you back on the Forum again, I look forward to following your threads, and findings, good luck with Bloog, I think your a great addition to this company I look forward to seeing the improvement in Bloog with your being on there team.!

 

[leaford]

I don't understand why everything MUST be KR8, how hard can it be to make a run of cartos in 510 it's a one part change in the process, you will also be limiting your business with sale to only sell KR8's. It would be nice to see at least a 510 version to go with the KR8's, adapters are fine but shouldn't be needed, especially with these factories being so up to date I don't understand with only one part being needed to change from KR8 to 510 why they wouldn't make runs of each to capture both clients needs.

Thank you for your answers and input Leaford it's cool to see you back on the Forum again, I look forward to following your threads, and findings, good luck with Bloog, I think your a great addition to this company I look forward to seeing the improvement in Bloog with your being on there team.!

Thanks MWA. As I said, Bloog JUST changed to the KR8 a few months ago, forcing all their existing customers to either buy new batts, chargers, accessories, etc., or to switch to another retailer still carrying their previous model. We're not going to do that a second time. So the upgraded Fusion will be 100% compatible with the current Fusion model.

We might pick up other models in the future, as additional lines. I have a couple other models in mind, although not the 510. But one thing at a time.

And in any case, no one retailer can really be all things to all people. If you try you just end up doing a piss-poor job at all of them. There are other retailers specializing in the 510. They will probably do a better job of bringing you a great 510 model than a company trying to carry all possible cartomizer models at the same time.

And, personally, I think the 4.2v of the KR8 model gives better performance than the 3.1 of the 510 model. But that's just me.

Oh, and I should also add that it really isn't as simple as changing the one part, by which I assume you mean the threads. Different voltages, different IC chips, different airflow characteristics, etc. I've been through the proces of convincing a manufacturer, and a very high quality one, to make a compatible model that they hadn't made before. The initial results weren't pretty. And they're still working on getting it right. It's not as simple as you think.

 

[BanjoMan]

Leaford,

How are the new filler cartos holding up cleaning-wise? One of the strong points of the filler-less E2's is the ability to rinse and dryburn them repeatedly. Some members have reported using the same E2 for a month or more.

 

[mwa102464]

OK Leaford, I guess after digesting that I will have to think about possibly getting some of these KR8 4.2V Batts. when you say 4.2v is this a true 4.2v Batt or a 3.7 with a max output of 4.2 on a full charge, and what Batt are you particularly speaking about if I may ask if it's a particular one, I'm just so stuck on my Ego/Riva 510 Batts & all my different Mods that I haven't been using the KR8's since my early days with V4L, fill me in please ? Also is the carto your making have a slotted bottom on it, I think I have some of these and liked them and have been using them with an adapter on my Ego/Riva, I thought they where from Bloog but I'm not sure as I have so much different stuff right now I could open a store with it all, hahah,, if there is a way you could post a picture of this fusion I would like to see it or give me a link to look at it that would be great just so I know for sure what your speaking about. Thank You Leaford

 

[mwa102464]

I have to say I have used just about everything in the industry Atty,Carto, Batt and Mod wise but I'm new to these CE2 carto's and would really love to see them become perfected as no filler sounds awesome to me. Every carto I have tried and that's quite a few of them, all have some kind of taste that doesn't agree with me, I use to like the idea because I thought it was almost like a filter and grabbing any impurities in the liquids before turning them to vapor but I think that idea is now out the window and just vaping vaporized liquid straight out of a carto with no fabric in them seems like the cleanest way to me, however even the rope in the latest CE2 R3's I have has a taste to it unless it's something else but I don't know what else there could be, there is no glue in them, I dissected them. I have a pack of the CE2 R4's that should be in the mail box tomorrow and I'm hoping they are much better then the R3 version I have now, and a large order coming straight from CN Liquid shop that I'm preying are really good ones,,, fingers crossed on that one too