Leakage

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Warren E. Justice

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May 12, 2015
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I have long marveled at the problem of leakage in these simple devices. I have been a certified industrial sewing machine technician for 9-10 years and I have also been certified to work on various machines in the cotton packaging field. I worked in that field for 17 years and worked on hundreds of machines of all shapes and sizes. Because of this I saw many ways of providing lubrication and oil to machinery. I have also worked with machines that used water for steam.
My services have been so important that I have been flown in via crop duster to cotton gins ten miles from the nearest store or service station.

I have never seen a machine that used liquids of any form that did not employ the use of an O ring at the point where the fuel or oil intake "cap", "cover", "seal" by what ever name--used there was always a rubber seal to keep the fluid--any fluid from leaking out of the intake point. I have worked on machines that used a "sump" the machine sat in a pool of oil with saturated felt at the bottom. A simple pump was used to send the oil to various "wicks" that were placed at various points in the machine. There was exposed oil on machines of this type and when properly aligned, cleaned and maintained, the oil did NOT leak from the machine at the bottom OR at the intake point because an O ring or a gasket was used to seal the point of entry and other points where oil could escape through "seepage" .
Oil or heavy liquids leak worse than water because these liquids ARE heavy and they PUSH their way through seals that are metal to metal.
The new styles of vaporizors are using internal tanks instead of seperate tanks. The fluid is very "oil-like" and act like oil and PUSH against the seal at the cap where fluid is added to the vaporizer.
I am seeing this same thing in the new NEBOX starter kit. It has a great flow and it creates a tasty vape-- it is much like an old fashioned pipe. This is what I was looking for and I like this unit except that IT LEAKS it has NO rubber or felt gasket between the heavy fluid and the cap that is quite ignorantly placed at the bottom of the unit. IT should be at the top and away from the liquids pressure to escape. This unit needs and O ring and I am going to either have one made or I am going to lose very expensive liquid.

I sometimes think this is done on purpose because they KNOW it will leak and generate more sales of the fluid used. IT does not matter to them if the user buys their brand or somone else's...sooner or later the increase sales will come back to them.
But that might not be the case. The designers of this unit may not KNOW about leakage from the fuel intake point??? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT.

I WILL BE LOOKING FOR A UNIT THAT HAS A tank THAT IS FILLED FROM THE TOP AND BY DOING THAT--AS LONG AS THE UNIT IS NOT LAYED ON ITS SIDE AND ALWAYS REMAINS RELATIVELY LEVEL-- THE FLUID WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUSH ITS WAY OUT ONTO THE BED OR YOUR HAND OR YOUR CLOTHES AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER $20.00 IN 3 DAYS. IT MIGHT LAST FOUR.

I know the manufacturers of these units KNOW they leak. The have had people test them--take them home and use them etc. And of course these testers had the same problem: Leakage.
I hope they will fix it. I will let everyone know if after I use an thin O ring if the leakage stops on this unit and I will THEN use more fluid because I am relaxed and enjoying what I bought and not having to have the stains it leaves off of my clothes, bedding and hands.
I hate dishonest or shabby organizations that KNOW their product is faulty and still send them out by the thousands to make money. This new windfall has the potential to rival the cell phone craze in a small way-- but people get tired of them leaking and having to buy coils that burn out suddenly after two days use.
Lets watch what they do over the next few months. IF enough of us make our complaints known.. they will change their products and add simple changes that will enhance the quality of the product they present to their buyers.

Warren E. Justice U.S. Certified 4- models sewing machine tech.
 

Bunnykiller

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when ever a fluid has contact with an open air source, it will find its way out of that container via gravity...
oils have a higher viscosity than water but in general weigh less than water...
I agree that any container that houses a fluid should have a compressible seal between 2 mating surfaces to reduce the loss of fluid..

there are better attys out there... :)
 

crxess

Grumpy Ole Man
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I see a Seal :blink:

And your history adds little to the Possible problem.
NeBox Tank is a Central Air system. Bottom Center to top(drip tip) Over filling will Force e-liquid into the air channel. Said spillage will leak out the Air channel.
If you are getting leakage around the threading of the Coil Base, the Seal has been damaged(stretched/compressed/twisted)

Ithaka Atomizer uses a Catch and return system. :D
 
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sofarsogood

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Oct 12, 2014
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I have long marveled at the problem of leakage in these simple devices. I have been a certified industrial sewing machine technician for 9-10 years and I have also been certified to work on various machines in the cotton packaging field. I worked in that field for 17 years and worked on hundreds of machines of all shapes and sizes. Because of this I saw many ways of providing lubrication and oil to machinery. I have also worked with machines that used water for steam.
My services have been so important that I have been flown in via crop duster to cotton gins ten miles from the nearest store or service station.

I have never seen a machine that used liquids of any form that did not employ the use of an O ring at the point where the fuel or oil intake "cap", "cover", "seal" by what ever name--used there was always a rubber seal to keep the fluid--any fluid from leaking out of the intake point. I have worked on machines that used a "sump" the machine sat in a pool of oil with saturated felt at the bottom. A simple pump was used to send the oil to various "wicks" that were placed at various points in the machine. There was exposed oil on machines of this type and when properly aligned, cleaned and maintained, the oil did NOT leak from the machine at the bottom OR at the intake point because an O ring or a gasket was used to seal the point of entry and other points where oil could escape through "seepage" .
Oil or heavy liquids leak worse than water because these liquids ARE heavy and they PUSH their way through seals that are metal to metal.
The new styles of vaporizors are using internal tanks instead of seperate tanks. The fluid is very "oil-like" and act like oil and PUSH against the seal at the cap where fluid is added to the vaporizer.
I am seeing this same thing in the new NEBOX starter kit. It has a great flow and it creates a tasty vape-- it is much like an old fashioned pipe. This is what I was looking for and I like this unit except that IT LEAKS it has NO rubber or felt gasket between the heavy fluid and the cap that is quite ignorantly placed at the bottom of the unit. IT should be at the top and away from the liquids pressure to escape. This unit needs and O ring and I am going to either have one made or I am going to lose very expensive liquid.

I sometimes think this is done on purpose because they KNOW it will leak and generate more sales of the fluid used. IT does not matter to them if the user buys their brand or somone else's...sooner or later the increase sales will come back to them.
But that might not be the case. The designers of this unit may not KNOW about leakage from the fuel intake point??? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT.

I WILL BE LOOKING FOR A UNIT THAT HAS A TANK THAT IS FILLED FROM THE TOP AND BY DOING THAT--AS LONG AS THE UNIT IS NOT LAYED ON ITS SIDE AND ALWAYS REMAINS RELATIVELY LEVEL-- THE FLUID WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUSH ITS WAY OUT ONTO THE BED OR YOUR HAND OR YOUR CLOTHES AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER $20.00 IN 3 DAYS. IT MIGHT LAST FOUR.

I know the manufacturers of these units KNOW they leak. The have had people test them--take them home and use them etc. And of course these testers had the same problem: Leakage.
I hope they will fix it. I will let everyone know if after I use an thin O ring if the leakage stops on this unit and I will THEN use more fluid because I am relaxed and enjoying what I bought and not having to have the stains it leaves off of my clothes, bedding and hands.
I hate dishonest or shabby organizations that KNOW their product is faulty and still send them out by the thousands to make money. This new windfall has the potential to rival the cell phone craze in a small way-- but people get tired of them leaking and having to buy coils that burn out suddenly after two days use.
Lets watch what they do over the next few months. IF enough of us make our complaints known.. they will change their products and add simple changes that will enhance the quality of the product they present to their buyers.

Warren E. Justice U.S. Certified 4- models sewing machine tech.
Here is what I've worked out to minimize leaking issues. I do mouth to lung so the air supply can be small. I use an SV rda clone pretty much exclusively. The air supply is on the side of the barrel. When I want to carry it in my pocket I found a 12mm tall by 22mm diameter anti slip ring that fits tight and won't slip off the barrel in my pocket. I pull it up or down to cover or expose the air supply. That pretty much eliminates leaking as long as it doesn't get upside down. I go farther than that. I do DIY and mix only 1% flavoring, which tasts fine but if it gets in my cloting I don't reek. The flavoring is low enough that bystanders often don't notice an odor when I'm vaping.

I think that any atomizer with bottom air that goes straight to the bottom with no elbow is going to have some seepage problems sooner or later. That elbow or turn needs to be there. WIthout it I think capillary action is enhanced and overcomes the static pressure of the wick holding back the liquid in a tank system. That's my theory anyway. Use a low % of flavor and there will be very little odor if a few drops gets into clothing.
 

crxess

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TLDR: i fix sewing machines but i'd like to appear as if i were a fully qualified engineer

A top filled Smok TFV4 would have saved me time and money.

T

I have a few TFV4 also.................But Op is way off base. Hundreds of Bottom fill tanks of various designs and they work properly when setup correctly.
No matter if Top or Bottom fill.:facepalm:

Comically, many people have complained of Top fill tanks Pouring e-liquid while filling:ohmy:................ummm, okay.
 
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Ryedan

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I have long marveled at the problem of leakage in these simple devices. I have been a certified industrial sewing machine technician for 9-10 years and I have also been certified to work on various machines in the cotton packaging field. I worked in that field for 17 years and worked on hundreds of machines of all shapes and sizes. Because of this I saw many ways of providing lubrication and oil to machinery. I have also worked with machines that used water for steam.
My services have been so important that I have been flown in via crop duster to cotton gins ten miles from the nearest store or service station.

I have never seen a machine that used liquids of any form that did not employ the use of an O ring at the point where the fuel or oil intake "cap", "cover", "seal" by what ever name--used there was always a rubber seal to keep the fluid--any fluid from leaking out of the intake point. I have worked on machines that used a "sump" the machine sat in a pool of oil with saturated felt at the bottom. A simple pump was used to send the oil to various "wicks" that were placed at various points in the machine. There was exposed oil on machines of this type and when properly aligned, cleaned and maintained, the oil did NOT leak from the machine at the bottom OR at the intake point because an O ring or a gasket was used to seal the point of entry and other points where oil could escape through "seepage" .
Oil or heavy liquids leak worse than water because these liquids ARE heavy and they PUSH their way through seals that are metal to metal.
The new styles of vaporizors are using internal tanks instead of seperate tanks. The fluid is very "oil-like" and act like oil and PUSH against the seal at the cap where fluid is added to the vaporizer.
I am seeing this same thing in the new NEBOX starter kit. It has a great flow and it creates a tasty vape-- it is much like an old fashioned pipe. This is what I was looking for and I like this unit except that IT LEAKS it has NO rubber or felt gasket between the heavy fluid and the cap that is quite ignorantly placed at the bottom of the unit. IT should be at the top and away from the liquids pressure to escape. This unit needs and O ring and I am going to either have one made or I am going to lose very expensive liquid.

I sometimes think this is done on purpose because they KNOW it will leak and generate more sales of the fluid used. IT does not matter to them if the user buys their brand or somone else's...sooner or later the increase sales will come back to them.
But that might not be the case. The designers of this unit may not KNOW about leakage from the fuel intake point??? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT.

I WILL BE LOOKING FOR A UNIT THAT HAS A TANK THAT IS FILLED FROM THE TOP AND BY DOING THAT--AS LONG AS THE UNIT IS NOT LAYED ON ITS SIDE AND ALWAYS REMAINS RELATIVELY LEVEL-- THE FLUID WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUSH ITS WAY OUT ONTO THE BED OR YOUR HAND OR YOUR CLOTHES AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER $20.00 IN 3 DAYS. IT MIGHT LAST FOUR.

I know the manufacturers of these units KNOW they leak. The have had people test them--take them home and use them etc. And of course these testers had the same problem: Leakage.
I hope they will fix it. I will let everyone know if after I use an thin O ring if the leakage stops on this unit and I will THEN use more fluid because I am relaxed and enjoying what I bought and not having to have the stains it leaves off of my clothes, bedding and hands.
I hate dishonest or shabby organizations that KNOW their product is faulty and still send them out by the thousands to make money. This new windfall has the potential to rival the cell phone craze in a small way-- but people get tired of them leaking and having to buy coils that burn out suddenly after two days use.
Lets watch what they do over the next few months. IF enough of us make our complaints known.. they will change their products and add simple changes that will enhance the quality of the product they present to their buyers.

Warren E. Justice U.S. Certified 4- models sewing machine tech.

You raise some interesting points Warren :thumb:

It seems to me that you could design one of these leak-proof atomizers if anyone could. If you are so inclined I would be happy to beta test it for you :)
 

anavidfan

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Totally off topic but in the OPs knowledge base...

I have a great Singer Machine and need to have it serviced, where in Southern Calif ( s. orange county ) can I take my machine that is HONEST and wont cost me an arm and a leg to do unnecessary work to get it usable again?

I guess my question ( even if it was about the sewing machines ) was not worth a reply, I was serious. I love and miss my machine :(
 
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Ryedan

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I guess my question ( even if it was about the sewing machines ) was not worth a reply, I was serious. I love and miss my machine :(

anavidfan, the OP hasn't logged on since Mar 5. I suspect you're on your own unless someone else here has some experience with this.
 
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gofishtx

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With all respect sorry to go little sideways. I just got a TFV4 mini, not well closed it leaked some ejuice inside the spring connector of an RX200. Is there a way to clean that. does it have any possible short circuit effect. Please advice.
A Q tip followed by a Q tip dipped in a little alcohol will clean that right up. Most 510 connections have an O ring that will protect the internal wiring from getting a bath in E liquid. ;) I wouldn't purposely douse the 510 connection but I have had a few leaks on several different devices with no problems.
 

gofishtx

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Let me reply to the OP... most tanks will leak, usually from a flooded coil or loss of pressure in the tank or user error. Most leaks can be fixed by replacing an O ring on the tank or the coil and tightening down everything. If you want a tank that absolutely does not leak, The Cubis tank does not leak at all and is top fill. I don't believe it will fit your Nebox though and the coil resistance are 1.5 1.0 and .5
 

Douggro

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I guess my question ( even if it was about the sewing machines ) was not worth a reply, I was serious. I love and miss my machine :(
Lacking any help here, I'd suggest using your GoogleFu combined with combing Yelp and other review sources for someone reputable to service your machine. My wife and my mother both sew and have "classic" machines that have been passed down, so I understand the desire to keep them running.
 

edyle

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It's because of AIRFLOW.


Bottom coil systems have a hole in the bottom, plus air has to get to the coil.
The main reason tanks leak is the liquid goes downward throught the place the air is supposed to flow upward.

The solution is to design the air intake to come from the top, and channel downward to the coil, then continue on the nomal path upward.
This means that when liquid gets down the air pathway, it can't just flow out because it would have to move up to do that.
Instead of leaking, you just get gurgling instead.
 
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