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Learning as I go...

Discussion in 'Coil Builds' started by dfoster, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    just started building my own coils with quite limited success. Using Coilart Azeroth RTA and for wire I have 28g and 22g ss316. My limited experience shows me that more cotton inside the coil is better than not enough. First few tries on the 3coil deck were using the 28g to make coils at .26ohms finished(if I remember correctly). Dry fired fine, but once wicked and juiced I could only get a short 1 second pull before I was tasting burnt cotton. Once pulled apart I fired again and saw the legs were getting red almost instantly which told me what’s up...though I don’t know why!

    Next, step in the right direction, same set up but using 22g wire also on the triple deck. This finished at .11ohms but I had a slow ramp up time and almost no flavor of the juice. Once again long pulls I’d be tasting burnt cotton.

    Next I twisted some 28g and a few fumbled attempts and finally got the deck somewhat working better. I think I’m at 8 wraps on each coil and total res at .2 ohms. Wattage between 75-85 it has a fairly slow ramp up, but not horrible. Taste is muted but best yet of my builds(not saying much). Funny thing is, fruity stuff tast ok, still a bit muted but ok, and anything with cake, creams, vanilla, etc all taste like .....

    Not too sure what direction to go from here...
     
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  2. lupinehorror

    lupinehorror numpty wrangler Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Jul 11, 2017
    alba
    are you strumming (raking) them whilst firing to get them to glow evenly from the centre outwards before wicking? i use ceramic tweezers. just a thought...sorry if i'm stating the obvious.
     
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  3. Letitia

    Letitia Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    All 3 coils must match in Ω. Are you testing Ω for the coils individually before installing?
     
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  4. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Yes I forgot to mention, I did rake and do what they needed to get them firing from the center out before wicking. Not sure if I’m even close but I’m curious if it’s maybe not enough cotton or maybe the leads weren’t tightened evenly?
     
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  5. lupinehorror

    lupinehorror numpty wrangler Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Jul 11, 2017
    alba
    only time i've had hot legs :)rolleyes:) is when i've had the coil touching the post but i'm sure that's not your issue.
    sure a coil guru around here will offer good advice.
     
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  6. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    No just making them as exact as I can then testing once installed on the deck. Apparently my multimeter isn’t sensitive enough for such small resistance readings
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 3
  7. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Update... used a small screw and wrapped some twisted 28g at 8 wraps. Using the 2 coil deck with these slightly spaced coils at just under 3mm ID. This is coming in at .3ohms and with 75w it’s my best yet...but still far from where I hoped an RTA would get me.

    I tried the same idea, using a screw to space the wire on plain 28g wire and more of the same. Any draw longer than 3 seconds and it’s tasting dry and burnt. Flavor wasn’t anything great either.
     
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  8. Letitia

    Letitia Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Not all rtas are great, but boy some are. More is not always better.
     
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  9. Don29palms

    Don29palms Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2014
    joshua tree, ca
    Too much cotton and watts too high.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. NicotineRush

    NicotineRush Linux Mint/Mate Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Learn to build single coils first. Seems to me you're making it much harder on yourself starting with multiple coil builds.
     
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  11. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    My first build was on a TINY dual coil deck. I learned a LOT, including the fact that I don't like dual coil decks at ALL (and I had coiled it so I could use a single coil....) It was a great "learning" tank and I did learn a lot, but I really like simple, easygoing builds at lower wattage and am a MTL vaper. I do think the same principles apply to subohming though... I mean, with one coil, the variations and experiments you can make (higher from the airflow! different wires! Spaced or contact! Tightness of wick! etc.) are far easier because you a) are not building, installing, and wicking two coils and b) there are just going to be less variables. There are some great DL RTAs or RTDAs that are fairly easy to build on and a fair amount of experimentation is needed to achieve great flavor as well as good clouds, and I genuinely think that learning all that is so much easier on a single coil deck.

    I'm not SORRY I built that deck, and I learned a lot from it but it was not painless. Overall, I had to really experiment with many tanks to get builds that I like, but they are all single coil builds at this point.

    Hope you find a variation that suits you, but getting a single coil deck might be a great idea too....

    Anna
     
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  12. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Can you elaborate? I ask because when I used less cotton I couldn’t even take a pull longer than maybe 2-3 seconds and it tasted dry/burnt. With more cotton I can pull as long as I want and even chain vape a few puffs in a row with no problem.

    Hope you don’t take this as arguing, it’s just hard for me to move what I feel is backwards? But I’m new so maybe what I think is backwards is the right way haha. I have been looking into something simple like a goon or something. I have a friend with some rda’s he might be willing to trade me one for some juice or something since I know he doesn’t use them.

    I don’t know if I’ll get a chance to mess with my coils or wicking until tomorrow night but I’ll def try what you guys suggest. Thanks again for everyone’s responses!
     
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  13. Maestro

    Maestro Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2012
    Windsor, Ontario
    If you're burning the cotton, the reason is always the same: it's not wicking fast enough to keep up. There are a lot of reasons. Length of cotton is important. Don't block the juice channels. The cotton only needs to be long enough to barely touch the deck. Too short is better than too long. Lowering your wattage will reduce the amount of juice you're burning off. A thinner juice would help. Tightening the air flow will increase the amount of juice being pulled into the juice well. Play with all of these to find out what works best with your tank.
     
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  14. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Also curious, is there better wire I should be using than my 28g stainless? So far my two best results have come from the 22g stainless, though it had low resistance (0.11) and slow ramp up and seemed like no flavor. But it otherwise worked. And my best has been with the 28g twisted. Using the plain 28g acts like I want it but then I get the burnt taste after a 3+ second pull on the vape. Is there such a thing as using too many wraps to make a coil?

    Sorry to ask so much but I’m questioning my coils
     
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  15. Letitia

    Letitia Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Unless you are using tc or a curve i wouldn't use 22g. Thinner wire gives you better ramp in power mode. Try a parallel build with the 28g. How is no flavor a good result? Lower your watts if you're burning your wick. You sound like your vape style would be better served with tc.
     
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  16. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Ok here’s where I’m at..

    Made some parallel coils using the 28g stainless wire then used 6 wraps at 2.5mm id. Also used a bit less cotton when wicking these. The three together came out to 0.1 ohm and at 70watts this is giving great flavor. I’ll use it for the rest of the day and see if I come up with any complaints, no doubt I’ll find some quirks. I do notice better air flow with the 3 coil deck vs the dual.
     
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  17. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Maybe I was just too excited, flavor isn’t what I was hoping. Probably one of the better builds I’ve done since doing this but not worth replicating, at least not on the triple coil deck. Maybe I’ll give the parallel coil try with the dual deck so the resistance will be higher and see how she does. Also with less cotton it’s leaking a tad more than normal
     
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  18. Speigel42

    Speigel42 Full Member

    Aug 10, 2017
    Chino, CA
    Using dual coils opposed to triple coils is not moving backwards at all! I switch from dual to single even quad sometimes..however, what the members are saying is wicking 3 coils exactly the same, so they will work and keep a triple coil tank from leaking is not the easiest task..maybe pick up an rda, the coils being up higher to your mouth will provide better flavor(most of the time.) Also something I wish I knew when I was starting is paying attention to my voltage reading..I would find, especially when I was still learning the subtleties of wicking coils, that builds above 4 volts would get close to burnt..stay aroind 3.8-4.1 to learn how these coils run..maybe because the pioneers used unregulated, I'm not sure why but it seems a lot of "go-to" builds operate beautifully at 4.1-.2 volts.
     
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  19. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    Thanks Speigel, I’d like to say I’m getting better at what I’m doing here. Still not getting the flavor I THINK I should be. Best coils so far, with my limited resources, is making Clapton’s with the 28g stainless I have on hand. I’ve been going back and forth between the dual and triple deck and it seems the triple leaks through the 510 pin slightly, but none with the dual so that’s what I’m currently rocking. With two 28/28 Clapton’s I’m at 0.389 ohms. I was using 75w and after reading your post my volts were up just shy of 6. Reduces wattage to 38w to get to 4.1-4.2v. Has a slow ramp up and somewhat poor cloud production. Do I need different coils/wire, would that help me?

    BTW, i did start wicking looser but still snug and that helped flavor as well
     
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  20. dfoster

    dfoster Full Member

    Dec 14, 2017
    Adirondacks, NY
    I did get a wotofo troll but it has a funky mouthpiece I just can’t get used to. It’s a long piece. I’ve been thinking of picking up a Vandy Vape keiser or whatever so I have something dedicated to dual and I can forget the triple for a while
     
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