Loctite & sub ohm coils on various 18xxx batteries

[Peppermint Rhino]

So I purchased a Mirandus mech mod yesterda, and I failed to notice that it does not have reverse threading for the locking ring. As a result, every time I try to unscrew the locking ring from the bottom of the mod to get it to prevent the button from being depressed, I also unscrew the bottom of the mod as well.

I was wondering if the smallest dab of blue loctite wouldn't be the worst of ideas. I wouldn't use a lot obviously, just enough to give the threads at the bottom of the mod enough grip to not come apart when I move the locking ring. I figure this wouldn't cause health issues since the stuff is nowhere near the drip tip, and it could easily be undone with a tight grip and slightly more force than what's required to move the locking ring. Also, the way the threads work, this wouldn't go against the design.


I like 18350 batteries because they're compact and have enough capacity to get me through the day. I told this to the guy who sold me the mod, and he asked how low of a resistance I'd want to go. I told him probably no lower than .8 at the most, and he said he wouldn't do that with an 18350. He said that the lowest he'd run would be a 1.0, and at that point, there was no point in using a RBA. I asked what he'd use, and he said an 18650.

I have more of an understanding than not of ohm's law, and how rebuildable coils work, and I'm pretty sure that all 18xxx batteries give off 3.7 volts. So, if that's the case, and milliamps (mAh right?) is basically the capacity of the battery (in the same way volume is to a cup or other receptacle) what difference does it make what kind of battery I'm using if the only thing that's changing is the capacity of the battery and in turn how long it'll last before needing to be recharged?

 

[CreepyLady]

I like 18350 batteries because they're compact and have enough capacity to get me through the day. I told this to the guy who sold me the mod, and he asked how low of a resistance I'd want to go. I told him probably no lower than .8 at the most, and he said he wouldn't do that with an 18350. He said that the lowest he'd run would be a 1.0, and at that point, there was no point in using a RBA. I asked what he'd use, and he said an 18650.

I have more of an understanding than not of ohm's law, and how rebuildable coils work, and I'm pretty sure that all 18xxx batteries give off 3.7 volts. So, if that's the case, and milliamps (mAh right?) is basically the capacity of the battery (in the same way volume is to a cup or other receptacle) what difference does it make what kind of battery I'm using if the only thing that's changing is the capacity of the battery and in turn how long it'll last before needing to be recharged?

I am not certain about the loctite - but I can help with the battery part. What matters with the 18350 and 18650 and the resistance of your coils are the amps drawn.

An 18350 generally only has a c rating up to 6 amps and an 18650 can be had with a 10-30 amp c rating.

Fully charged you are going to get 4.1-4.2 V on a mech - so always best to calculate with this # to KNOW you are within safe parameters.

4.2 Volts / 0.8 Ohms = 5.25 Amp Draw - on an 18350 you are maxing your batteries capabilities and not allowing any room for error. As a sort of "rule of thumb" you shouldn't use more than 75-80% of your battery's abilities. So for 6 Amp limit - you dont want to exceed a draw of 4.5 Amps.

Hope this helps!

 

[everman7]

First off, loctite will not create a safety concern since you're not vaping it, but it may reduce the conductivity at the connection, especially if smeared around the entire thread section, which will happen when screwed together. Try clear tape on the outside once the parts are screwed together.

Secondly, it's not about mAh or voltage, it's about amp draw. I am not sure of the "C" rating of an 18350, but the reason for using 18650s is that they have a higher amp draw. Some of the new 18650 batteries being developed for sub-ohm coilers are rated at 30 amps! Don't create a dangerous situation trying to sub-ohm an 18350. It doesn't take much to set these batteries off, and it's not a pretty site when they go.

 

[everman7]

I am not certain about the loctite - but I can help with the battery part. What matters with the 18350 and 18650 and the resistance of your coils are the amps drawn.

An 18350 generally only has a c rating up to 6 amps and an 18650 can be had with a 10-30 amp c rating.

Fully charged you are going to get 4.1-4.2 V on a mech - so always best to calculate with this # to KNOW you are within safe parameters.

4.2 Volts / 0.8 Ohms = 5.25 Amp Draw - on an 18350 you are maxing your batteries capabilities and not allowing any room for error. As a sort of "rule of thumb" you should use more than 75-80% of your battery's abilities. So for 6 Amp limit - you dont want to exceed a draw of 4.5 Amps.

Hope this helps!

you just beat me to it! haha!

 

[r2d2]

Right. Please do not use 18350 for sub-ohm coils. Trust me, I understand the alure of the smaller form factor but if you're building 0.8 ohm coils you're right on the cusp and we'd hate to see something terrible happen to you.

 

[A_alford27]

What about an 18500 or 18490? I was wondering about this to. Is an 18650 the smallest battery to use for sub-ohms?

And also I was wondering if it is safe to run sub-ohms on a dna20 mod? I've heard yes and no. I'm just wondering.

 

[FigNewton]

Just in case you haven't seen it, and for anyone who maybe reading this thread, here is a link to the battery safety page:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

 

[vapero]

AW 18490 are ok to sub-ohm as they are 16.5amp
here is a list of batteries and their limits
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sqMPzYz17PEzZbNSO3aMMxKk0Mg7NpwQ83qQ5r44uIo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Peppermint Rhino]

I am not certain about the loctite - but I can help with the battery part. What matters with the 18350 and 18650 and the resistance of your coils are the amps drawn.

An 18350 generally only has a c rating up to 6 amps and an 18650 can be had with a 10-30 amp c rating.

Fully charged you are going to get 4.1-4.2 V on a mech - so always best to calculate with this # to KNOW you are within safe parameters.

4.2 Volts / 0.8 Ohms = 5.25 Amp Draw - on an 18350 you are maxing your batteries capabilities and not allowing any room for error. As a sort of "rule of thumb" you shouldn't use more than 75-80% of your battery's abilities. So for 6 Amp limit - you dont want to exceed a draw of 4.5 Amps.

Hope this helps!

That most definitely helps. I wasn't about to suggest that I knew better or something. I just wasn't clear on the differences between the various incarnations of the 18xxx batteries.

I'd be interested to hear if you could do sub ohm coils with 18500 batteries as well as if there are any other things like the c rating I should be aware of with the batteries, but hopefully that battery safety page will tell me everything I need to know.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[AttyPops]

Basically, you have to

1) Check the specs on the specific battery in question (if you can find it). Particularly the amp rating or "C-rating".
2) Decide if you believe them. (that's a sad commentary on some of the claims made by battery manufacturers)
3) Check ECF too...for others that have had opinions and/or good results and/or problems.
4) Leave a margin of error for safety.

There are some 18650's that you don't want to use. Some you'll pay extra to get.

Even more true for 18500. 15 mm shorter means...less amps by definition.

 

[Weizenheimer]

I just wanted to throw in that there is plenty of point in using RBAs at over 1 ohm.

 

[Bunnykiller]

avoid the locktite even the blue can be quite sticky leaving you with an unopenable mod...

 

[Don Robertson]

And THANK YOU to those warning AND explaining about amperage draw on these potentially explosive devices. It scares me to see new and veteran alike even mention "0.anything" and then go on about "so I can use any battery that will supply 3.7 volts" as I have seen in so many other posts. It's downright scary.

Senile Old Man Don ........ Yes I do bring this up a LOT. Explosions seem to catch ones attention.

 

[therealmuffinman]

Fully charged batt puts out about 4.2 V. The AW 18350's are rated for 6A continuous but can burst to 12A. For my low build like .2 I use the 30A sony 18650's but on the 350's The low enough ive been ballsy enough to go is .6 which draws 7A, which I dont care to find out how much more the battery can handle.

 

[Peppermint Rhino]

Fully charged batt puts out about 4.2 V. The AW 18350's are rated for 6A continuous but can burst to 12A. For my low build like .2 I use the 30A sony 18650's but on the 350's The low enough ive been ballsy enough to go is .6 which draws 7A, which I dont care to find out how much more the battery can handle.

Ok. So loctite is totally out of the question. Got it. Is there a thread on this forum that outlines all the features various batteries have that I should know, all the factors I should be aware of when working with a particular kind of battery, and maybe some guidelines to get me started safely?

 

[CreepyLady]

Ok. So loctite is totally out of the question. Got it. Is there a thread on this forum that outlines all the features various batteries have that I should know, all the factors I should be aware of when working with a particular kind of battery, and maybe some guidelines to get me started safely?

These blogs by Baditude are amazing - lots of good stuff and there are three really good ones on batteries E-Cigarette Forum - Baditude - Blogs

 

[Asmo6]

avoid the locktite even the blue can be quite sticky leaving you with an unopenable mod...

Blue loctite is easily loosened by applying heat.

300* is about where you want to be to soften blue.



What it can do is gunk up threads and / or get crusty. I would put a very small dot on the threads with a needle so you can literally put almost none on. Then let it set until it tacks before screwing it on. Do not put it at the start of the threads so it 'works' its way the whole way down like you normally would. Maybe in the middle or near the end. (This should help minimize conductivity problems)

Sparingly would be the key I would think.

 

[tj99959]

Lots of different ways to make a lock ring, and they all function a little differently. So there is no one answer to your problem with it.
On my Chi the lock ring is part of the switch assembly (comes off the PV with the switch). I lock the switch, and then install the switch. With my Nemmy the lock ring stays on the PV when I remove the switch, and I just loosen it a turn or two before installing the switch.
What you can not do is have the lock ring all the way in the fire position when you install the swirch. That will freeze it up every time.
A simple trick with some PV's is to loosen the top cap a bit, that will allow the switch and lock ring to turn independant of each other.

I would NEVER use loctight on one of my PV's!

He said that the lowest he'd run would be a 1.0, and at that point, there was no point in using a RBA.

WOW do I ever dissagree with that!

That's a 2.2 ohm coil in my avatar pic!

So my first Q would be WHY do you want to use sub ohm, what is it that you are trying to change?

 

[therealmuffinman]

Ok. So loctite is totally out of the question. Got it. Is there a thread on this forum that outlines all the features various batteries have that I should know, all the factors I should be aware of when working with a particular kind of battery, and maybe some guidelines to get me started safely?

I agree wit hCreepyLady, Baditude has good posts on batteries. this one in specific lists the Amp rating on most popular batteries. Just avoid the provari posts or you too might be handed a glass of kool-aid and a hooded robe while being offered to join the cult (ill probably get flamed for that). Really the MOST IMPORTANT thing about sub ohming is know what your battery can handle (amp rating) and know exactly what you are pulling before you fire it. There are many ohms calculators where you plug in the voltage (a fully charged battery is 4.2 not 3.7 like on the label) and the resistance, and it will tell you how many amps you would be drawing. And if you are going sub, you NEED an ohm reader or a multimeter because you need to know the resistance in order to know the amps you are drawing.

If you double your coils, you half your resistance. So putting dual 1ohm coils will make your atty be actually at .5 and quad 1ohm coils would be .25 so when checking the amps you draw, use the resistance of the atty not the individual coil.

Apart from watching your battery stress, sub ohms isnt that big a deal, you get nice clouds, nice flavor, and a hell of alot warmer vape depending how low you go ( a .2ohm build on a fully charged battery is running at about 88 watts which is about 6x more intense than a VAMO's 15W and about 11x more intense than a provari's 10W) hell you might not even like your vape that warm or thick. You would need to drill out your airholes and get some sort of delrin or insulated drip tip.

Good luck, and if you are unsure, remember it is always better to err on the side of caution.

*edit* oh you are going to generally want IMR for sub ohming like the sony, orbtronic, efest 30A or the MNKE 20A. And NEVER use unprotected ICR.

 

[Peppermint Rhino]

I agree wit hCreepyLady, Baditude has good posts on batteries. this one in specific lists the Amp rating on most popular batteries. Just avoid the provari posts or you too might be handed a glass of kool-aid and a hooded robe while being offered to join the cult (ill probably get flamed for that). Really the MOST IMPORTANT thing about sub ohming is know what your battery can handle (amp rating) and know exactly what you are pulling before you fire it. There are many ohms calculators where you plug in the voltage (a fully charged battery is 4.2 not 3.7 like on the label) and the resistance, and it will tell you how many amps you would be drawing. And if you are going sub, you NEED an ohm reader or a multimeter because you need to know the resistance in order to know the amps you are drawing.

If you double your coils, you half your resistance. So putting dual 1ohm coils will make your atty be actually at .5 and quad 1ohm coils would be .25 so when checking the amps you draw, use the resistance of the atty not the individual coil.

Apart from watching your battery stress, sub ohms isnt that big a deal, you get nice clouds, nice flavor, and a hell of alot warmer vape depending how low you go ( a .2ohm build on a fully charged battery is running at about 88 watts which is about 6x more intense than a VAMO's 15W and about 11x more intense than a provari's 10W) hell you might not even like your vape that warm or thick. You would need to drill out your airholes and get some sort of delrin or insulated drip tip.

Good luck, and if you are unsure, remember it is always better to err on the side of caution.

*edit* oh you are going to generally want IMR for sub ohming like the sony, orbtronic, efest 30A or the MNKE 20A. And NEVER use unprotected ICR.

Ok. I already have a couple efest imr 18350 batteries that I'll be using as well as an ohm meter to test coils and a luc efest charger.

I've been doing a lot of reading between my posts in THIS thread, and I'm starting to get a better picture. I still have 3 questions though.

1) how do I determine the continuous, spike, and resting voltage of my battery?

2) one of the blog posts on battery safety says that the safest battery is the biggest one your mod can accommodate. If I build coils with the limitations of a 18350 in mind (not sub ohming) why is that more dangerous than using a 18650 with an appropriately designed coil?

3) what is considered a "safe" distance from the maximum wattage of a setup? For example, if my battery is putting out 4.2v at the highest with a rating of 10c, and my coil is at 1.8 ohms; that gives me a current of 9.8 watts((4.2*4.2)/1.8 right? ). Is that considered safe if it's only 2 tenths away from the max of what the battery can handle?