Would I be a bad person if I asked if there was a board where vapers are commited to finding recipes for marketed flavors?? I mean that does take away profits from great vendors..and for the prices I get I don't mind buying...but if I could make my own versions for a tenth of the price...well I'm cheap lol!
lol..an ethical question
- Thread starter locke2121
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Well...my first impulse would be to say "That's unethical". To ask such a question on ECF would kind of undermine everything the forum is committed to as far as the vaping community is concerned.
These recipes are not open-source and if someone had reverse engineered them to determine the flavors and percentages then I would expect no public discussion of such information on this site - we would be cutting off our own noses and liquid vendors may well decide not to bother in future with new recipes or improvements.
Just my 2c worth...
These recipes are not open-source and if someone had reverse engineered them to determine the flavors and percentages then I would expect no public discussion of such information on this site - we would be cutting off our own noses and liquid vendors may well decide not to bother in future with new recipes or improvements.
Just my 2c worth...
Even the vendors sell DIY materials, so it should be ok to Create your own recipe and share it with others if you like, but the Vendors work hard to make their juice special and to bring repeat buyers back to their store, so make some cool recipes and share them, but dont use any recipes that dont belong to you, like said above, they are not open source. Gourmet vapor has lots of open source recipes for those who care to try them.
That is a Very Interesting question…
Of course there is Nothing wrong with duplicating a Retail Vendors Flavor using DIY supplies for your own use.
But I guess the ethical issue becomes If you do, Is it right to post the recipe to the Internet?
I can see many arguments for both Yes and No.
BTW - You might notice that I didn't pose the question towards a person downloading or looking for a recipe. Only towards the person who has the recipe and then makes it public via the Internet.
Discovering a recipe is not quite impossible. Two problems arrise: do you want it to be exactly the same, or just want to feel the same? And how much are you willing to spend on reverse engineering?
The first question is based on a self discovered truth, that is "I can only feel a part of a complex flavor" for example a tobacco recipe, to me is nutty with vanilla, to somebody else is sweet hay. By replicating the personal effect of the flavor you copy the part of the recipe as you feel it, but it won't feel the same to somebody else as the original flavor did.
The second question is involved if you want the exact recipe, then some GS-MC (gas spectrometry-mass cromatograpy) is needed and that can bump the cost a bit. I have access to such a GS-MC device, and used it to test various bases for purity. Did try to reverse engineer a few ready-made liquids and all I can say it's not that simple to do, specially tobacco flavours tend to be complex beasts with dozens of singular compounds, and you need a lot of diy flavors analized to make a "signature base" to help determining the recipe.
As ethic concern I tend to believe that the gain is larger than the loss, the few people replicating the recipe will be mostly "open source" guys, publishing the improved recipes and helping the company, while the mass of consumers will just stick to buying ready made juice and not bothering with liquid alchemy.
My 2c
The first question is based on a self discovered truth, that is "I can only feel a part of a complex flavor" for example a tobacco recipe, to me is nutty with vanilla, to somebody else is sweet hay. By replicating the personal effect of the flavor you copy the part of the recipe as you feel it, but it won't feel the same to somebody else as the original flavor did.
The second question is involved if you want the exact recipe, then some GS-MC (gas spectrometry-mass cromatograpy) is needed and that can bump the cost a bit. I have access to such a GS-MC device, and used it to test various bases for purity. Did try to reverse engineer a few ready-made liquids and all I can say it's not that simple to do, specially tobacco flavours tend to be complex beasts with dozens of singular compounds, and you need a lot of diy flavors analized to make a "signature base" to help determining the recipe.
As ethic concern I tend to believe that the gain is larger than the loss, the few people replicating the recipe will be mostly "open source" guys, publishing the improved recipes and helping the company, while the mass of consumers will just stick to buying ready made juice and not bothering with liquid alchemy.
My 2c
But that is where the shades of grey start to form.
Is it ok to buy stoolen tools? You didn't steal them. Your just the one buying them.
Or is ok to download recipes of a Retail Vendors e-Liquid? If you don't sell it or if you were not the one who "cracked" it.
Not sure if there are clear cut right on wrongs here.
I like Applebee's Perfect Margaritas .. they don't have a patent on them, so they could care less if I make one .. they consist of ..
1/2 oz Cointreau
1/2 oz Grand Marnier
1 1/4 oz Cuervo 1800 Tequila
4 oz Sweet and Sour mix
1 oz Simple Syrup
1 1/4 oz fresh lime juice
Point being, there is no moral dilemma here .. unless the material is patented ..
1/2 oz Cointreau
1/2 oz Grand Marnier
1 1/4 oz Cuervo 1800 Tequila
4 oz Sweet and Sour mix
1 oz Simple Syrup
1 1/4 oz fresh lime juice
Point being, there is no moral dilemma here .. unless the material is patented ..
Ummmm. Margaritas. It's been hot. A Couple or Seven of those sound good.
As I understand it, it is difficult to patent recipes. Not Impossible. But Difficult.
Does patent protect provide remedy for a non-monetary infringement? By that I mean, if no moneys are exchanged that it is difficult to show that there were any damages incurred.
I think the reality is that whatever you make will only ever be an approximation of a complicated commercial mix. It's not going to be exact as there are too many (basically infinite) combinations of flavourings possible. If you come up with something that's close to your favourite pre-mix I don't think publishing that recipe would have any ethical implications. If you obtained the exact recipe by some underhand method, that is a different matter altogether.
Some companies sell concentrates of their recipes (at concentrate prices). So you can make exact DIY versions of the finished pre-mix. They obviously feel that there's no problem with that and that doing so does not impact on the sales of mixed juice too significantly.
Some companies sell concentrates of their recipes (at concentrate prices). So you can make exact DIY versions of the finished pre-mix. They obviously feel that there's no problem with that and that doing so does not impact on the sales of mixed juice too significantly.
Last edited:
- Status
