PIF Ethics

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Blaze

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OK..I've been busy as heck and just jumping in and out of PIF...someone fill me in
"Scammer?" whats going on?


And Cream no sugar Blaze thanks :)

Just a few "takey, no givey" episodes (that makes sense, right?), and a few people that seemed to be taking more than they needed to (not passing judgement of any kind here, seemed is the important word there ;)).
 

The Big Chief

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The way I see, I came in here knowing I can use my ability and knowledge to help others, both new ppl and veterans alike. Those who are new can come here, and be expected to ask a lot, sample a lot, accept a lot, both in the needs, as well as wants and PIF itself, though I wouldnt expect large returns at all in PIF. In helping them grow, they can in turn transition easier, and waste less money and time on needless items and grow into a vet. As Veterans, we will also fall on hard times on occasion, so if an atty is needed, or liquid, we can count on each other to help get by, and understand each other on what we like, and what works, because we get picky, and we know it :p. In addition, us vets will regularly try different liquids because we've overcome our needs for strictly tobacco blends. We usually buy in bulk, and trustworthy vets will immediately give back anyhow. So, to sample flavors is expected. To accept mutiple flavors to try different vendors or flavor variations would be ok, But i would post such to cover my .... in the actual asking, as we all know those small differences, well, make a difference, but when Im looking for that coffee flavor, I'll want 5 variations. To ask for a battery that you've lost, and accepting 20 pms for more, is outright abuse. Unfortunately there are ppl that read the fine lines, and know where to bend, and not get caught, or leave a small doubt, enough to keep their shindig going. Those ppl are generally spotted, and I like seeing ppl speak out when they get busted. PMing will do no good, as the shadows are their playground. The flow only starts to degenerate when a predator is spotted. If the coast is clear, everyone will come out and play. I would like to see some kind of 3 strike rule on the abuse or something of the sort. That way, I know even if I get bamboozled, 2 more and he's out. Occurrences should also be brought into the open somehow, but not to the point of "branding" anyone that may have made a slight error in judgment only once. Its eggshells on that note.
I think jules has worked out some kinks already in the separation of threads. Now I can expect the NEEDS thread to be only for NEEDS, and spot predators quickly. And the WANTS thread, I can relax a bit knowing its a want, just to try something new, and cater to those wants better as well. The swapping and pif are going well aside from one or two questionable persons. I'm REALLY liking the "posting when needs are met" thing. Even a simple "I got ya, pm comming" is enough to inform all participants. I'm just trying to think through a good way to remove the spotted predators as soon as they are spotted, instead of the herd scattering until someone sees that predator leave...its like a big herd of joyful gazelle..but let that lion get spotted..geez. But all in all, I think we have a community that is open armed, very welcoming to newcomers, with no outrageous expectations. With ppl like lulu and Z, the mix is wide, and bases are covered, and everyone is accommodated here...a WIDE range of personalities that mix well, and respect each other. But, knowing we have a great thing going here, I would have no problem protecting it, and showing someone the door that is constantly pushing the envelope to GAIN, instead of give....But I came here to give after all, and help those that are new, or still building to reach that point of having enough, and being content, maybe trying new stuff, just to try new stuff, but ultimately enjoy the ride of it all.
But to answer jules directly..with a tacklebox full of mods, Unless my tackle box was much bigger, and no new needs have shown in days, Id say visit the swap threads. But a new model to try out, no harm there. I think trust is the key there. I need to know that if I give you my 901 setup, and a need is posted, you'll kick down that 901, or one of your mods to cover it since I emptied my stash to you. Boils down to trust.
 
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GtrSoloist

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I've read all the previous posts and see that a lot of bases have already been covered with the separation of the needs and wants thread into two separate entities. I don't need to say for the 80th time that if you want to try something you should post in the wants thread...well damn I guess I just did.

That being said, the poster who stated that "Those in the greatest need are the least likely to ask," well that is true at least 99.99998 percent (that last 8 is important, it keep airplanes from falling out of the sky) of the time. Case in point, myself. I am probably in one of the worst financial situations here, but I have never asked for a thing in the needs or wants thread. (If you don't count the time I said I needed a suit-case full of money and wanted it delivered by Olivia Munn...which I don't count.) However several people here have been more than generous by offering to send me things if I expressed a want or need in passing. I cannot tell you much I appreciate the help that has been given to me. So I try to emulate the same, and help out where I can.

Blaze (I think it was Blaze) has a really good point about the mood changing here. It was much lighter a couple months back when I first started coming here.

I have only had one issue with a PIF that I have received. I've never mentioned this to anyone, and am not going to name any names now. Let me just say that I won't deal with that person again. Nuff said on that.

Do we need more rules? Maybe, but I hope not. Maybe this my is fault. Maybe I should have spoken up about the issue I had. It's entirely possible that a lot of people just don't speak out when there is an issue, because they want to give that person the benefit of the doubt.

Some people are givers, and some are takers; it kills me to take more than I give... regardless of my financial situation. Jules, I believe that is why you see so many posts in PIF from people who are genuinely sorry that they can't give more. I feel bad every time I take, because it is my nature to give.

With my limited means, I might take one PIF a week. Those PIF's and everyone here have been invaluable in getting me up and running and finding things that I like to vape. Maybe I'm unique, but I like maybe 10% of the things I try; if I'm lucky. For example, today I got a great PIF from Big Chief, that had BWB, JC, and Boba's Bounty. I'm so glad it was a PIF, because I didn't like them. (heh they'll be up on PIF soon) It's fantastic that I was able to try those, without spending a lot of money I don't have on buying large bottles of stuff that so many rave about. Which is part of what makes this group so outstanding.

I mean sure... I *could* buy large quantities of inexpensive juice and polyfill, and keep splitting it up into small quantities and offering it over and over again so I could amass a gigantic stash of parts of juice, but then I would only be Paying It Forward to myself.

Rather than the above, it seems to me that PIF is about helping others, which is why I think the mood has changed around here when people to start feel like they, or others are being taken advantage of.

On another note, if anyone has been wondering where I have been for the last week or so, I have been dealing with some health issues, although I do try to stop in at least read a little bit to stay up with whats going on.

In closing, I want to express how much I love this group, (It's helped restore my faith in humanity.) and I want to reiterate that this stuff does not apply to new members, and just in general-- take what you need, try what you want, and give what you can... because that's what PIF is all about.
 

danlisi

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First off I can say I have sinned by taking more than 1 pif in a day in the past this will not be happening from me anymore
I've made the mistake of not noteing that my needs were met on a need request when I got what I needed the day after I posted it, and a bunch of people got mad at me for it:( this won't happen again
Annyway I feel that if someone honestly needs something they should ask for it that's what the threads for but please note
When your need has been met I will definately do this
And if you have a want post it as such and post when it's been met
 

Princessdee

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I've been thinking about how to word this.

If you specify a want (or need) and it's answered, the person answering that want might need to post that it's been met. We've had a rash of people accepting multiple offers of help and the people helping them had no idea they were getting 8 bottles of juice instead of the one or two needed to help.

Just something to think about.

I know I myself offer help by PM instead of posting for my own reasons, but just a post that "Joe's need (or want) has been met" might be helpful.

I know most of us are very giving people who would never take advantage of a situation but there are others...
 

HyOnLyph

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I think PIF as a whole has gotten a bit "touchy" lately, with the possibility of a scammer looming over it/us. .....
Yes, we've had some bad seeds. Yes, we will have to endure them in the future, as it's the nature of the beast. But in the past few weeks/months, I've watched PIF go from the completely carefree and relaxed family that it once was, to, at times, extremely edgy and defensive. I've watched PIF go from a happy thread, designed to pick up some new things to try out/take someone up on a bit of help to make it thru the tough times, to a very demanding and rules driven atmosphere.

This is not a good thing.

My biggest piece of advice to ANYONE participating in PIF is simple: If you can't stand to lose what your offering, don't offer it up in the first place (meaning have NO expections for end results after it leaves your possession, no matter what).

/rant (does this officially qualify as a rant?), resume your normally scheduled PIF activities :)


Really well said. PIF is about giving... not worrying about who is recieving.
 

Jules22871

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Welcome! I'm sure I speak for 99% of the population here when I tell you this nor any other thread is pointed at any new members, there are a select few "regulars" that the topic applies to! If you need something, post in needs. If you want to try a juice, grab a PIF, and dont worry about your offering! IF you got polyfill and ziplocks (<---avy) then you got an offer LOL..

NEWBIES! If you are reading this thread, please dont think any of this is about you,(thread isnt really directed at anyone to be honest) if you really do need something, PLEASE post it in needs and if someone has it to spare, you'll get it.
This thread was not meant to be aimed at anyone, new or old. It was aimed at the overall "feeling" in PIF lately. It's like there is a back cloud looming over us and we are all standing around waiting to open our umbrellas.
Disclaimer: this post is NOT taking shots at ANYONE, so don't think I am. It's merely my opinion, and that with a dollar will getcha a cup of coffee.

I've got an opinion, and until now, I've been very quiet about it, but with this thread, I think I'm just gonna speak my mind, and everyone can take it for what's it's worth....

I think PIF as a whole has gotten a bit "touchy" lately, with the possibility of a scammer looming over it/us. Jules, the fact that you even thought that this thread was necessary just proves my point (altho I'm not making accusations of ANY kind). You've as much right to post Wants/Needs as any of the rest of us (maybe even more so). No one should care what kind of gear you've got. Hell, I've got a vaping arsenal, and I'm not ashamed/embarrassed/apologetic about it. It took me a while to amass my collection, but I still need a bit of help from time to time, and have desires to try new stuff w/o spending a small fortune deciding what I like and don't like. This was what the original intent of both the Needs and the Wants thread, and I'm glad that the thread finally got separated again.

Yes, we've had some bad seeds. Yes, we will have to endure them in the future, as it's the nature of the beast. But in the past few weeks/months, I've watched PIF go from the completely carefree and relaxed family that it once was, to, at times, extremely edgy and defensive. I've watched PIF go from a happy thread, designed to pick up some new things to try out/take someone up on a bit of help to make it thru the tough times, to a very demanding and rules driven atmosphere.

This is not a good thing.

My biggest piece of advice to ANYONE participating in PIF is simple: If you can't stand to lose what your offering, don't offer it up in the first place (meaning have NO expections for end results after it leaves your possession, no matter what).

/rant (does this officially qualify as a rant?), resume your normally scheduled PIF activities :)

Exactly, don't give what you don't have and once you take it, it's yours to do with as you please. That single thing right there nearly killed PIF and I don't want to see it happen again.

The problem with confronting someone on the board is that it then becomes a feeding frenzy and everyone jumps on the person. That is why it is in the rules to be handled via PM. With the J incident, I had to delete over 100 posts that afternoon. 100 POSTS!!!! I don't want to see that and will not tolerate seeing, that happen again to anyone. If you see a new person about to help someone that you honestly in your heart feel is taking advantage there is nothing wrong with sending a PM to them saying Hey, watch this one for a bit before you give anything.

We have to get this epidemic of cynicism out of PIF or we are going to fail.
 

btngchck

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Just my opine..............

I really haven't been here all that long. I sit back, watch silently for the most part, I don't have the stash that most of you do, however, if I can spare what I do have, I will.

I really don't care if you have a walk-in closet full of hardware and juice. If you would like to try something that I have and can spare, I will and have. Do I have expectations? Not in the least.

We all know that life can sometimes be cyclical. In my up times I will give freely (and yes, I've seen those that ask for a lot and often), but it is my choice who I give to.

I love this forum from what I've seen. It is an inspiration and very uplifting. Yes, even in the wants threads. Not that I have or see myself doing, but it's nice to know that if ever I need something to keep me smoke-free and have no means for myself, I have somewhere to turn. And you know what, if I see a flavor somewhere that I am dying to try and cannot get it in a small size, I just may ask for a sample.

I agree with whoever said the OP of the post should identify the want is fulfilled. It should be that way with the need as well.

Anywho......just my :2c:
 

HyOnLyph

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This thread was not meant to be aimed at anyone, new or old. It was aimed at the overall "feeling" in PIF lately. It's like there is a back cloud looming over us and we are all standing around waiting to open our umbrellas.


Exactly, don't give what you don't have and once you take it, it's yours to do with as you please. That single thing right there nearly killed PIF and I don't want to see it happen again.

The problem with confronting someone on the board is that it then becomes a feeding frenzy and everyone jumps on the person. That is why it is in the rules to be handled via PM. With the J incident, I had to delete over 100 posts that afternoon. 100 POSTS!!!! I don't want to see that and will not tolerate seeing, that happen again to anyone. If you see a new person about to help someone that you honestly in your heart feel is taking advantage there is nothing wrong with sending a PM to them saying Hey, watch this one for a bit before you give anything.

We have to get this epidemic of cynicism out of PIF or we are going to fail.

I Absolutely 100% agree.
 

Blaze

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I just think that PIF is a very personal thing, and as such, will mean something different to every single person, regardless of popular interpretation.

That's why I think alot of ppl get really touchy when someone seems to take "too much", or we get the occasional "bad apple". I'll be the first to admit it, when the concept was first intro'd to ECF, I though is was a great thread to grab some new stuff and get rid of stuff I didn't like. Since then, PIF has come to mean ALOT more to me, and my views have completely 180'd.

A really good way to look at PIF, I think, is to look at it like you would look at work. Leave your emotions at the door, and what happens at PIF should stay at PIF. Just my $.02
 

Adja

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I haven't accepted any PIF's for a couple weeks. In fact, I've stopped even reading the Pay It Forward thread to see if something might interest me. It wasn't a conscious decision to stop, I often saw flavors that I would like to try, but the offers are so large lately that I am intimidated by them. While these offers are very generous, and it amazing to see 80 or 100mls of juice offered, I really just don't want to accept that much from anyone. My stash is relatively small, I DO NOT NEED ANY JUICE ~ I have enough; but I do not have boatloads of anything, and I wouldn't take a huge offer like that unless I could offer up something "comparable" in return. I understand that it is not necessary, but it is just how I feel. I am always embarrassed when someone feels it necessary to add something to my offer, because I have always tried to offer up something decent.

I would like to see PIF offers limited in terms of quantity. Like no more than 30mls total in the offer or something like that. That probably isn't a very popular opinion, but we are all entitled to have one. LOL

On a personal note, my husband had a heart attack Sunday, and I don't know how often I will be here for awhile. He is still in the hospital at the moment, but hopefully will be coming home in the next couple of days. We passed a big hurdle today when the test showed that he will probably not have to have another surgery. Keep your fingers crossed for us. I will check in again when I can.

Thanks to all in PIF ~ I love this group!!
 

Jules22871

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I haven't accepted any PIF's for a couple weeks. In fact, I've stopped even reading the Pay It Forward thread to see if something might interest me. It wasn't a conscious decision to stop, I often saw flavors that I would like to try, but the offers are so large lately that I am intimidated by them. While these offers are very generous, and it amazing to see 80 or 100mls of juice offered, I really just don't want to accept that much from anyone. My stash is relatively small, I DO NOT NEED ANY JUICE ~ I have enough; but I do not have boatloads of anything, and I wouldn't take a huge offer like that unless I could offer up something "comparable" in return. I understand that it is not necessary, but it is just how I feel. I am always embarrassed when someone feels it necessary to add something to my offer, because I have always tried to offer up something decent.

I would like to see PIF offers limited in terms of quantity. Like no more than 30mls total in the offer or something like that. That probably isn't a very popular opinion, but we are all entitled to have one. LOL

On a personal note, my husband had a heart attack Sunday, and I don't know how often I will be here for awhile. He is still in the hospital at the moment, but hopefully will be coming home in the next couple of days. We passed a big hurdle today when the test showed that he will probably not have to have another surgery. Keep your fingers crossed for us. I will check in again when I can.

Thanks to all in PIF ~ I love this group!!

First I have to say that my family's prayers are with you and your husband. Take care of yourself and your family and PIF will be here when you get back. During this time, remember, that if you need anything, you have your whole PIF family to jump up and help any way that we can.

There will never be a limit on how much can be offered in the PIF thread. It is up to the generosity and the means of the one doing the offering. Do not be afraid to accept a large offer when you don't have a comparable amount to offer back. I have personally taken large offers and put up less. There is bound to be something in that large offer that you are not going to like and it gives you something to PIF again. Like someone said, it's a huge circle that just keeps going.
 

btngchck

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Adja, I am sooo sorry to hear, but am happy to hear the hurdles are clearing. Just keep in the back of your mind I am in MI as well (i know i know it's a big state).....if you need any juice, batts, ANYTHING I can do just pm me....oh and by the way.... I MEAN WHAT I SAY..... don't be afraid to ask and I will do what I can
 
Adja... I will pray for u and ur husband for strength to get thru this hurdle..
U of all ppl should never feel bad take an offer.. no matter how big or small... and no matter how much ur offer in return is.. I think you are one of the most giving thoughtful ppl here on PIF... What u sent me and my son will never go unappreciated.... Just the little things like that can mean more than 100ml of juice!! Thats JMO.. but I am sure alot feel that way. U R an amazing woman.. and i for one am grateful to have met u on here!!
hugs & prayers~Missy
 

smilin0117

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This thread was not meant to be aimed at anyone, new or old. It was aimed at the overall "feeling" in PIF lately. It's like there is a back cloud looming over us and we are all standing around waiting to open our umbrellas.


Exactly, don't give what you don't have and once you take it, it's yours to do with as you please. That single thing right there nearly killed PIF and I don't want to see it happen again.

The problem with confronting someone on the board is that it then becomes a feeding frenzy and everyone jumps on the person. That is why it is in the rules to be handled via PM. With the J incident, I had to delete over 100 posts that afternoon. 100 POSTS!!!! I don't want to see that and will not tolerate seeing, that happen again to anyone. If you see a new person about to help someone that you honestly in your heart feel is taking advantage there is nothing wrong with sending a PM to them saying Hey, watch this one for a bit before you give anything.

We have to get this epidemic of cynicism out of PIF or we are going to fail.

Well...you said it so much better than me...but this is what i was trying to say!!
 
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