?: Looking for max flavor

[Imfallen_Angel]

A recent sad realization of mine was that, despite having something like 150 flavors, I can make only a small percentage of the public recipes on alltheflavors (I fare a bit better on that other site.) They are a bunch of hipsters over there though, so maybe that's not that all that surprising. Well, you know, just _one more order_ and I'll be all fixed up, right? And I'm sure I'll find some other use for CAP Smelly Sneakers (flavor notes: like it says on the bottle, and a bit niche, but it works perfectly in this recipe because of the way it pairs with FW Jock Strap and FA Wedgie. This flavor isn't for everyone, and is best at <0.5%, but used appropriately it tastes of nostalgia and longing. And Fungus, above about 0.75%.)

I swear, if these recipe database sites aren't getting some serious kickbacks from the flavor companies they are bad at business. Recipes lead to greed... greed leads to flavor lust... flavor lust leads to credit card expenditures.

I'm in the same way, I must be around the same amount.. and frankly, to get new flavours isn't a huge deal.

I've looked at a lot of the recipes that people do and many that have over 10 flavours tend to just be over the top in complications... I think I have one recipe that takes about 10, but that's due to where I'm was going with it, but most others are about 3-6 flavours.

Seriously when you have some with a single drop per 100ml, it's not going to make that huge a difference, etc.

Some just see themselves as "fancy" I guess with 20-30 flavours, and many with such an array of things that it's not worth it.

With the number I've got, I probably could make a few thousand combinations, and that's just fine...I'd rather concentrate of improving my 50ish proven recipes than try to mimic what others are doing.

I think that I ended up using one recipe from that main recipe site, and that was because it was a fairly simple and was exactly the type I was looking for, but I ended up tweaking it anyways. All my other recipes are flat out common sense of matching and pairing flavours.

 

[go_player]

I'm in the same way, I must be around the same amount.. and frankly, to get new flavours isn't a huge deal.

I've looked at a lot of the recipes that people do and many that have over 10 flavours tend to just be over the top in complications... I think I have one recipe that takes about 10, but that's due to where I'm was going with it, but most others are about 3-6 flavours.

Dunno- I mean if you told me I had to live with recipes with 4 or less flavors for the rest of my life I'd still be able to mix things I like. Especially if I were allowed to use MF flavors, which are a bit difficult, but often very good even as single flavors (still trying to figure them out, tbh.) It would take a lot of the fun out of it for me though.

Seriously when you have some with a single drop per 100ml, it's not going to make that huge a difference, etc.

Depends on the flavor- I've never seen a recipe that called for one drop per 100 ml. I have seen some that call for 1 drop per 10 ml, or 1 per 30, and with flavorings like, say, FLV Cinnamon, even that might be too much in some cases. With a few flavorings 1 drop per 100ml might be appropriate, but in that case you should cut them down for daily use. I don't have any flavorings quite _that_ strong, but they are out there.

Some just see themselves as "fancy" I guess with 20-30 flavours, and many with such an array of things that it's not worth it.

Well, when I make fun of things in a flippant way I'm usually making fun of myself, to at least some degree. And I usually deserve it, to at least some degree.

Now, 20 flavors in a recipe probably exceeds the bounds of common sense and good taste, but I do really enjoy reading other people's (sometimes very complex) recipes, mixing them, trying to figure out why they work or don't work for me, modifying them, etc. Sometimes that's a recipe with two flavors, and sometimes it's one with twelve (at least of eight of which I don't have, two of which have to be naturally extracted from a llamas testicles. No matter how many flavors I buy another order is always in order, along with a trip to Peru, I guess... I hear Machu Pichu is nice this time of year.)

Mixing can be a lot of fun, and interacting with other mixers can be too. It can get expensive... but so can most hobbies.

I think it's really important that new mixers realize that you don't have to spend a lot or work very hard to make really good juice. But at the same time I kind of like seeing new recipes, cursing myself for not having FLV Mole Rat (I mean duh, why wasn't that in my last order- it's said to be the most authentic mole rat flavor out there, amirite?) rushing to buy it and then thinking to myself "why, in God's name, would anyone ever want to vape mole rat? Well, I'm sure there will be a way to work it into _something_, in trace amounts."

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Dunno- I mean if you told me I had to live with recipes with 4 or less flavors for the rest of my life I'd still be able to mix things I like. Especially if I were allowed to use MF flavors, which are a bit difficult, but often very good even as single flavors (still trying to figure them out, tbh.) It would take a lot of the fun out of it for me though.



Depends on the flavor- I've never seen a recipe that called for one drop per 100 ml. I have seen some that call for 1 drop per 10 ml, or 1 per 30, and with flavorings like, say, FLV Cinnamon, even that might be too much in some cases. With a few flavorings 1 drop per 100ml might be appropriate, but in that case you should cut them down for daily use. I don't have any flavorings quite _that_ strong, but they are out there.



Well, when I make fun of things in a flippant way I'm usually making fun of myself, to at least some degree. And I usually deserve it, to at least some degree.

Now, 20 flavors in a recipe probably exceeds the bounds of common sense and good taste, but I do really enjoy reading other people's (sometimes very complex) recipes, mixing them, trying to figure out why they work or don't work for me, modifying them, etc. Sometimes that's a recipe with two flavors, and sometimes it's one with twelve (at least of eight of which I don't have, two of which have to be naturally extracted from a llamas testicles. No matter how many flavors I buy another order is always in order, along with a trip to Peru, I guess... I hear Machu Pichu is nice this time of year.)

Mixing can be a lot of fun, and interacting with other mixers can be too. It can get expensive... but so can most hobbies.

I think it's really important that new mixers realize that you don't have to spend a lot or work very hard to make really good juice. But at the same time I kind of like seeing new recipes, cursing myself for not having FLV Mole Rat (I mean duh, why wasn't that in my last order- it's said to be the most authentic mole rat flavor out there, amirite?) rushing to buy it and then thinking to myself "why, in God's name, would anyone ever want to vape mole rat? Well, I'm sure there will be a way to work it into _something_, in trace amounts."

Well, the most important thing is to write/save your recipes...

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

I think it's really important that new mixers realize that you don't have to spend a lot or work very hard to make really good juice. But at the same time I kind of like seeing new recipes, cursing myself for not having FLV Mole Rat (I mean duh, why wasn't that in my last order- it's said to be the most authentic mole rat flavor out there, amirite?) rushing to buy it and then thinking to myself "why, in God's name, would anyone ever want to vape mole rat? Well, I'm sure there will be a way to work it into _something_, in trace amounts."

I find that many that are interested in either building or DIY, tend to be worried about the learning curve and the work involved...so they don't make the leap.

I'll admit that I took too long myself to get into it, but then, that was before the info and availability of products is what it is today.

When you consider that it's actually very simple... bend a wire correctly, put a piece of cotton/wink in it and that's really all there is to it, while DIY is filling a bottle with base, a few drops of flavouring and nicotine (if desired), and people simply overthink it.

I think that most people that decide to do it, most will end up saying the same thing "why did I wait?"...

Of course, for some people, it's just not their thing for many personal reason, but overall, at least if they know that there's not really much to worry about unless they want to get into the more complicated aspects of it, it can at least lessen their fear about it.

 

[Tonee N]

No need to take it personally, nor make it personal here, I only corrected you because I wanted to prevent confusion.

Odd that you blast my opinion but value yours as "right".

If you actually read my other posts, I stated a few things, opened the door about what to look for, made some suggestions.

I didn't press building, I only stated that when one doesn't build, it limits their options. There's many choices out now and more coming out for factory cartridge coils, but in terms of which one can deliver a "better" performance is a completely personal choice.

I could easily state that RTAs are the best way to go for flavour and would have thousands of people supporting this view, but I know that it's not for everyone.

My view on cartridge coils are that some models are short lived, limited stock and that could create a problem obtaining replacement down the road. Some might end up being poorly produced, and overall many are over-priced, and many end up wasted due to over-sweetened liquids that clog them easily. Yes, they are simple to switch, but they have more cons than pros, and that's just a reality.

So anyways... Sorry to have offended you so deeply that you had to turn it into some sort of personal attack.

And you don't know how to rewick either.[emoji1]

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[Imfallen_Angel]

And you don't know how to rewick either.[emoji1]

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And you make square coils...

 

[Smoke_too_much]

ah... well at least I know why you've had such trouble with TC .... 3-4 wraps @ 2.5mm aren't going to provide enough wire to be registering well.

Really, I hadn't even considered that. Besides which exactly what is wrong with square coils, at least they don't roll under the coach when you drop them.

 

[Smoke_too_much]

My view on cartridge coils are that some models are short lived, limited stock and that could create a problem obtaining replacement down the road.

I've noticed that too that some atty's I bought only 1 to 2 years ago are now getting harder to find coils for. All the big NA vendors seem not to be even trying to keep a supply, they just sit on their websites as "out of stock" leaving only the Chinese and the smaller vape shops still carrying them. With the Chinese you never know what you're going to get and with the small shops the price is too high.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Really, I hadn't even considered that. Besides which exactly what is wrong with square coils, at least they don't roll under the coach when you drop them.

yup... when I first tried TC with SS, I just couldn't get it to work in my single coils RTAs... hate it. It would pop out of TC, give me a burnt taste very easily, etc.

Then a bit later on, I tried it in a dual coil RTA and boom, it was working flawlessly.

Trying to figure out if I was doing something wrong with the single, I came here, ended up with a bunch of people that were just arrogant and ended up on my ignore list and NONE gave me a valid answer... so I continued to test a few things out, trying to think what I was doing different between my dual and single builds, as I was not getting hot spots, the wicking was fine, etc....then it just hit me (derp)... wire mass.

I did a build with as much wire as I could fit in my tiny little single coil deck (RBA for the OBS ACE) and not care about my ohms, (aside safety of course) and it worked..

I've been rebuilding that one and a Lemo 2 with SS (my two single coil RTA/RBAs) and it's been working flawlessly since then.

 

[Tonee N]

And you make square coils...

Because that's how I roll![emoji1]
I'm a trendsetter. Lol

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[go_player]

I find that many that are interested in either building or DIY, tend to be worried about the learning curve and the work involved...so they don't make the leap.

Yeah- for me DIY is kind of a no-brainer. It's the sort of thing I like to do, and I really like having a variety of juice I can tailor to my tastes and needs. I'll admit that I only started building pretty recently, and that is one I probably waited _much_ longer to do than I should have. It was less fear of the learning curve (I had a pretty good idea of what was involved, and was pretty confident I'd be able to figure it out, especially given all the information out there) and more just thinking it looked like a bit of a PITA, required even more stuff I have to keep track of, etc, and wasn't really the sort of thing I'd enjoy.

I was right about most of the downsides, actually, at least so far, but I was wrong to avoid it because of them. Having the control, the options, etc. that building gives makes it worth it to me, even if I have yet to evenly remotely come close mastering it, and I will likely never geek out about it the way some do (and I do over juice.) I still use factory coils a lot of the time though...

When you consider that it's actually very simple... bend a wire correctly, put a piece of cotton/wink in it and that's really all there is to it, while DIY is filling a bottle with base, a few drops of flavouring and nicotine (if desired), and people simply overthink it.

Well, I agree and disagree here, when it comes to mixing juice. Yeah, in a way it's a very simple thing, but in other respects it's not. I mean- let's say there weren't a lot of knowledge already out there about it and you had to figure it out completely from scratch (as did the first DIYers.) That would be really difficult, because so many flavors are un-vapeable, so many others are only vapeable in a certain small range of percentages, and because some otherwise good flavors play really badly with each other. And then there's steeping, etc...

Luckily there's a _lot_ of info out there now, but... the way people perceive the flavors used in DIY vary greatly from individual to individual (more, I think, than is the case with foodstuffs, for reasons I think I at least partially understand, but won't go into here- another topic for another day.)

So, some people just can't taste most artificial strawberries in juice. And some people get a very strong and very unpleasant pepperiness from TFA VBIC. If both of those things happen to be true for you and you decide to start mixing with "Mustard Milk," maybe the most lauded two-flavor recipe out there, you're going to have a bad time. And you might decide that mixing isn't for you, when in fact it's just that those flavors aren't for you, and there's a recipe right around the corner that you'll love.

Even aside from really specific flavor concerns like that it's also true that the most vocal DIYers are pretty different from a lot of newer vapers wanting to get into DIY in both their palates and their equipment. I mean- I like wine, but I'm not a connoisseur. I don't like my wine quite as sweet as the average American (who means damned sweet when he says dry,) but I'm generally pretty happy with an inexpensive bottle of Malbec or Cab. OTOH, some of the wines that connoisseurs like... well, when they praise the mineral notes in a very dry red I might think, on tasting it, "Yeah- that tastes like licking a wet rock dipped in sulfur."

So mixing a lot of the recipes DIY connoisseurs prize might not work out well for some new DIYers, especially people who quit recently, aren't using the latest equipment, etc. They might be a lot better off, to start at least, with a couple of berries and a lot of sweetener- it's not an accident that that describes a lot of commercial juice.

Of course, for some people, it's just not their thing for many personal reason, but overall, at least if they know that there's not really much to worry about unless they want to get into the more complicated aspects of it, it can at least lessen their fear about it.

Yep, and for a lot of people it might really not be their thing... that's OK. But I'd hate to see people give up too quickly on DIY because they either thought it was too hard for them, or because they thought it was so easy that if it didn't work well the first time it must not be for them. Applies to both building and juice, I think.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Yeah- for me DIY is kind of a no-brainer. It's the sort of thing I like to do, and I really like having a variety of juice I can tailor to my tastes and needs. I'll admit that I only started building pretty recently, and that is one I probably waited _much_ longer to do than I should have. It was less fear of the learning curve (I had a pretty good idea of what was involved, and was pretty confident I'd be able to figure it out, especially given all the information out there) and more just thinking it looked like a bit of a PITA, required even more stuff I have to keep track of, etc, and wasn't really the sort of thing I'd enjoy.
I was right about most of the downsides, actually, at least so far, but I was wrong to avoid it because of them. Having the control, the options, etc. that building gives makes it worth it to me, even if I have yet to evenly remotely come close mastering it, and I will likely never geek out about it the way some do (and I do over juice.) I still use factory coils a lot of the time though...

I started with very basic tools, but also started with rebuilding coils, something that from what I was being told was jumping in deep as many of the local guys I was talking with were saying that it wasn't something that even with their experience at building, they'd go with as it was very tricky to get right. So when I started with decks, it was very simple. The "hardest" part is the wicking really.. getting it just right, too much, bad flow, too little, leaks. Right now, 9.9/10 times, I do a coil and it's perfect, it's balanced, no hot spots, etc. and same with wicking, it's just a question of practice and experience and while I know that it doesn't come naturally to many, it's not really different than learning many skills.

Well, I agree and disagree here, when it comes to mixing juice. Yeah, in a way it's a very simple thing, but in other respects it's not. I mean- let's say there weren't a lot of knowledge already out there about it and you had to figure it out completely from scratch (as did the first DIYers.) That would be really difficult, because so many flavors are un-vapeable, so many others are only vapeable in a certain small range of percentages, and because some otherwise good flavors play really badly with each other. And then there's steeping, etc...

Yeah, but it's like cooking, some can't even boil water without having trouble doing it. Once you know the basics, which is what flavour works with another, and to stay within a total of around 5 to 10%, most things can work fine, some can be mediocre, some fine, some great. It's all about balance.

Luckily there's a _lot_ of info out there now, but... the way people perceive the flavors used in DIY vary greatly from individual to individual (more, I think, than is the case with foodstuffs, for reasons I think I at least partially understand, but won't go into here- another topic for another day.)

Of course, but that's true for just about anything.. in the vaping community, just look on some threads, lots of people are locked in their ways...

So, some people just can't taste most artificial strawberries in juice. And some people get a very strong and very unpleasant pepperiness from TFA VBIC. If both of those things happen to be true for you and you decide to start mixing with "Mustard Milk," maybe the most lauded two-flavor recipe out there, you're going to have a bad time. And you might decide that mixing isn't for you, when in fact it's just that those flavors aren't for you, and there's a recipe right around the corner that you'll love.

Even aside from really specific flavor concerns like that it's also true that the most vocal DIYers are pretty different from a lot of newer vapers wanting to get into DIY in both their palates and their equipment. I mean- I like wine, but I'm not a connoisseur. I don't like my wine quite as sweet as the average American (who means damned sweet when he says dry,) but I'm generally pretty happy with an inexpensive bottle of Malbec or Cab. OTOH, some of the wines that connoisseurs like... well, when they praise the mineral notes in a very dry red I might think, on tasting it, "Yeah- that tastes like licking a wet rock dipped in sulfur."

So mixing a lot of the recipes DIY connoisseurs prize might not work out well for some new DIYers, especially people who quit recently, aren't using the latest equipment, etc. They might be a lot better off, to start at least, with a couple of berries and a lot of sweetener- it's not an accident that that describes a lot of commercial juice.

It's true that many that start with DIY don't have a clue and all they have is their experience with store e-liquids... but I find that most, once they try something that's decent without the sweeteners, they see the difference rather quickly.. I'd never recommend sweeteners.

Yep, and for a lot of people it might really not be their thing... that's OK. But I'd hate to see people give up too quickly on DIY because they either thought it was too hard for them, or because they thought it was so easy that if it didn't work well the first time it must not be for them. Applies to both building and juice, I think.

It really comes down to the person and how they are... I always recommend that someone that jumps into DIY always start with 5-10% single flavours first to get the "feel" of the flavour before even trying any recipes. Then, using a dripper (RDA), they can mix and match a few drops of each, then mix drops of a couple together and then see how that goes before they actually start start mixing them together.

I find that it's really all about the approach, and the guidance they get that will give them better results.

My next blog is probably be about DIY.

Those that fail are usually those with the ego that makes them thing that they will get how to get a complex recipes right on the first try.