Lorillard/Reynolds offically stating they want a monopoly on the market

[AndriaD]

It's become almost a matter of orthodoxy among vapers that people are inherently less likely to quit smoking if they use a certain type of vapor product (specifically, the cartomizer-style and disposable e-cigs commonly sold by the tobacco companies). Sometimes, as is now being done in this thread, it is asserted that the tobacco companies intentionally make inferior e-cig products so that users will be more likely to return to cigarettes. It should be noted, however, that no one has yet produced any evidence supporting either of these claims.

Moreover, my own experience, which I freely admit is anecdotal and in no way authoritative, gives me no reason to ascribe credibility to such assertions. I quit a 25-year cigarette habit, in a matter of 48 hours, armed with nothing but a Blu starter kit. It was a spur-of-the-moment impulse purchase, made solely out of curiosity, at my regular smoke shop. Until that moment, I had never had the slightest inclination to quit smoking. I enjoyed smoking, from the first day I did it right up until the last day. For reasons I can't explain, I walked in the smoke shop that afternoon to get a pack of Winstons, saw the Blu display on the counter, and decided maybe I'd give quitting a try. After a couple weeks, as most people do, I started broadening my horizons and using better products. But the fact remains that the little Blu starter kit performed well enough to get me off cigarettes, almost overnight, with hardly any suffering. If that display hadn't been there, there's a pretty strong likelihood I'd be sitting here with a smoldering cigarette in my hand today.

Perhaps there's some truth to the "gateway" hypothesis after all. Except that cigalikes serve as a gateway to bigger, more powerful PV systems (provided they remain available), rather than to smoking. Maybe we can coin a new buzzword: the "archway hypothesis", wherein cigalikes serve as the grand Exit archway from smoking and into vaping with so-called "tank systems".

That being said, I agree that disparaging vapers based on the equipment they use is a grave error and creates unnecessary dissent within a community which otherwise has a common goal and approach.

I agree that no one system is right for everybody; I also quit using a cigalike, though I got an eRoll so I could choose my own flavors, and be able to recharge indefinitely. I like the "archway" idea; it's very often true that when first quitting, a lot of us are soattached to and invested in the cigarette form-factor, we think we need that in order to quit, but soon find that performance is a much greater factor, and so move on to these larger PVs that deliver a lot more power and customizability, and often a lot more vapor.

I'm really glad I've already got several rebuildables, and plan to get more, *just in case*, but I wonder if CASAA is planning on a CTA about this issue, to make it easy for us to let the FDA and our lawmakers know that this kind of ban would NOT be in our best interests, or in anyone's best interest except the BT companies' bottom lines.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

So, how can BT compete? Well, they can compete by influencing legislators to condemn the product that works in flavor of the inferior one from BT. All we have to worry about is the future of bottled nic mixes for DIY. Batteries, mods, PG, VG, and atomizers don't fall under the regulation process from what I hear.

How can they compete? It's very simple: stop telling people what they SHOULD want, and start making products that they DO want -- PVs and tanks! I can't see why that's so difficult for them to figure out. And with all their money and manufacturing and research-power, they should be able to make some bang-up mods and tanks!

But no, they'd rather be fascists.

Andria

 

[csardaz]

I bought some Blu on a whim and it was pretty nice that it was light enough to hold with your lips and have both hands free. However the charging pack never worked so I only got to use it til the 2 batteries were dead.

Then I got an 808 type device after that -quite similar but larger and required a bit more suction. Not comfortable for handsfree but possible just needing teeth involved.

Then I saw on youtube that cartomizers could be refilled and looking for the juice to refill them I discovered PV's. Not really ever hands-free but easy enough to pocket, but they let you drink the vapor instead of sipping it , less suction for more vapor. That worked better for me.

If theres a <20 gram device that does 9+ watts with an automatic action and lets me choose the juice and a decently low suction and high enough airflow - I'd like to try it. Even if it needed a charging pack. But that would mean a 10C rated 10300ish battery. The small batteries seem more tuned for energy density than power.

 

[DC2]

...but I wonder if CASAA is planning on a CTA about this issue, to make it easy for us to let the FDA and our lawmakers know that this kind of ban would NOT be in our best interests, or in anyone's best interest except the BT companies' bottom lines.

I am not sure what kind of Call To Action that would be, since this thread is about a comment to the FDA made during the comment period, which is now closed.
The only course of action would be to send letters to the FDA, which would not be a part of the official record.

So I kind of doubt CASAA is planning anything like that.

I assume the next Call To Action will be to send letters to Congress, since they have the power to quash the deeming regulations.
But until those regulations are finalized and officially recorded, there is no point yet in rallying to contact Congress.

JMO though.

 

[DC2]

How can they compete? It's very simple: stop telling people what they SHOULD want, and start making products that they DO want -- PVs and tanks! I can't see why that's so difficult for them to figure out. And with all their money and manufacturing and research-power, they should be able to make some bang-up mods and tanks!

Such products will not be grandfathered, and will most likely require costly Premarket Tobacco Product applications...
Premarket Tobacco Products

Why pay that money when it doesn't fit their preferred business model?

--Such products would not allow them to stick vapers with only the option of buying prefilled cartridges at high markups
--Such products would make any surviving electronic cigarettes products more effective than they would otherwise be
--Such products would only be useful if electronic cigarette refill liquids are allowed to survive the deeming regulations which would NOT kill their competition
--Such products would not be acceptable to the ANTZ
--Such products would continue to reduce the smoking rates more quickly which Big Pharma would oppose with all of their money and power
--Such changes to the deeming regulations would not provide Big Tobacco with complete control of the market

Basically, it's a bad move for all parties involved, except of course for us.

 

[Nate760]

I stood next to a Vuze glass front display yesterday at a Flash Foods checkout. They get $27.95 for a cig-alike with a couple of prefilled carts. A pack of spare carts was something like $17.95.

Holy crap! Here they cost $10 for the starter kit and $6 for the refills.

 

[AndriaD]

Such products will not be grandfathered, and will most likely require costly Premarket Tobacco Product applications...
Premarket Tobacco Products

Why pay that money when it doesn't fit their preferred business model?

--Such products would not allow them to stick vapers with only the option of buying prefilled cartridges at high markups
--Such products would make any surviving electronic cigarettes products more effective than they would otherwise be
--Such products would only be useful if electronic cigarette refill liquids are allowed to survive the deeming regulations which would NOT kill their competition
--Such products would not be acceptable to the ANTZ
--Such products would continue to reduce the smoking rates more quickly which Big Pharma would oppose with all of their money and power
--Such changes to the deeming regulations would not provide Big Tobacco with complete control of the market

Basically, it's a bad move for all parties involved, except of course for us.

It just makes me really glad I got into e-cigs before all this control-freak nonsense becomes law. I've got quite a few mods now, including a mech (which I intend to get more of!), and several rebuildables, which I also intend to get more of. Cigalikes may have gotten me to quit, but they sure couldn't KEEP me quit, and I don't intend to ever go back to them, even if I one day have to build my own mechanical mod from a flashlight! The ANTZ, BT, and the FDA can kiss my shiney hiney; the only thing that worries me now is the nicotine itself -- but I'm building up a nice stash of that in the freezer, too.

Andria

 

[Nate760]

the only thing that worries me now is the nicotine itself -- but I'm building up a nice stash of that in the freezer, too.

In a few years we might find ourselves living in a world where [name of semi-illicit dioecious flowering herb redacted] is completely legal, but there's a thriving black market for concentrated nicotine base.