Los angeles bans e-cigs
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And again, bipartisan politics does exactly what it's designed to do - get people bickering among themselves while the elected officials go right on doing whatever thethey want.
Let's keep our eye on the ball, folks...
Couldn't agree more. The illusion of left vs. right/Dem vs. Rep. perpetuated by our educational system and media keeps the people bickering among themselves. All the while those in power sit back, laugh, rake in our tax money and do as they please.
I don't get it. They legalized ......... and it helps people. As far as I'm concerned e-cigs are are less harmful than cigarettes.
Coelli, good for you for taking a stand and making an effort to make your voice heard on this issue. It takes guts to step out of one's comfort zone and stand up for what one believes in. I respect that.
Removing, not relevant now that some previous posts have been removed.
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Bottom line, one can sit back and point fingers of blame and attack someone's political or social point of view all they want, but that does nothing to change the issue at hand, regardless of what that issue is. Actions speak louder than words. Keep up the good fight Coelli, we need more people like you on the front lines of this particular battle.
Add oil to that list. No public use of gasoline. On the use of e-cigs in public, when I smoked I did not like being in real heavy smoky areas or other peoples smoke in my face. But since there is no way to ban STUPID, decisions like this will always happen. Remember who voted on these decisions. Some people must have voted for them.
Love the post Coeli of the pics showing how the LA rally went. Very nice!
Must say that is disheartening to read other posts that concede, in one fell swoop, to indoors ban as long as they don't go after an outdoors ban.
We are in middle of war on vaping, and the middle ground is, as long as we can vape outdoors?
I strongly believe that if general vaping community has that attitude, that usage bans will be easy. Outdoors could take a little more time, but if all indoors places are conceded as "just not right to do it there" then opposition was just handed a very large front without any fight. Heck, if I were opposition, I'd be like, "oh, okay, we'll give you the outdoors back in your location (temporarily), but in return you must help us with an indoor ban across the nation/world. For you apparently see what we are going for and can come to our side (temporarily) to make the case to your fellow vapers who don't understand our perfectly good rationale."
Take out the parenthetic items above, and who knows, some vapers may just go along, hook, line and sinker.
Must say that is disheartening to read other posts that concede, in one fell swoop, to indoors ban as long as they don't go after an outdoors ban.
We are in middle of war on vaping, and the middle ground is, as long as we can vape outdoors?
I strongly believe that if general vaping community has that attitude, that usage bans will be easy. Outdoors could take a little more time, but if all indoors places are conceded as "just not right to do it there" then opposition was just handed a very large front without any fight. Heck, if I were opposition, I'd be like, "oh, okay, we'll give you the outdoors back in your location (temporarily), but in return you must help us with an indoor ban across the nation/world. For you apparently see what we are going for and can come to our side (temporarily) to make the case to your fellow vapers who don't understand our perfectly good rationale."
Take out the parenthetic items above, and who knows, some vapers may just go along, hook, line and sinker.
I understand the mentality of this country and what this country has become. Safety and harm have nothing to do with the eventual prohibitions on vaping, which will sweep the nation. It looks like smoking and smoking has become demonized. That's it.
When I visit CR, it is like going to a bizarro world. Seemingly everyone smokes and vaping is warmly embraced- virtually everywhere. Those who complain about vaping are tourists- mostly from the US and UK...
Smoking will never be normalized in the US again; neither will something which looks like smoking. Had e-cigarettes come out 15 years ago, it would be a different story...
When I visit CR, it is like going to a bizarro world. Seemingly everyone smokes and vaping is warmly embraced- virtually everywhere. Those who complain about vaping are tourists- mostly from the US and UK...
Smoking will never be normalized in the US again; neither will something which looks like smoking. Had e-cigarettes come out 15 years ago, it would be a different story...
I totally agree with you.The billiard hall i usually go to allowed vaping, but not anymore.there was nothing better than enjoying a game,drinking brew,and not having to interrupt a game to go outside just to get your nic fix.i'm still baffled as to why we can't even vape at the friggin beach ffs! Anyways,have you ever been to Burbank? Public smoking(sidewalks and outside in general)is and has been banned for years.i always hated that town and avoid having business there whatsover.i wouldn't be surprised if they banned vaping outdoors in the near future.Yup, I agree, and that was expressed at the rally today. I will be writing an email to Garcetti tomorrow. I'm okay with the restaurant ban (honestly even though I vape I don't want to smell anything else in a restaurant when I'm trying to eat - I think an ordinance against too much cologne would be awesome too) but outside doesn't make any sense, and it should be left up to bars and nightclubs whether they want to allow it.
Lulurose
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Its insane - and the only alleged basis is "a need to protect children" with a claim that e-cigs would make smoking lucrative to children and be a gateway?? I am so tired of laws passed to "protect children" from making bad decisions. Where are the parents????
Look at the money, folks. That's always where the answer lies.
There's no good way for an individual city to tax vapers: the vapers can just buy what they need elsewhere.
Now, how much per pack is the LA cigarette tax? And what would happen to the city budget if every cigarette smoker in LA became a vaper?
What's sickening is that petulant, whiny city governments say to their citizens, "we can't tax you, so you can't do it," and thereby condemn some of their citizens to bad health and premature death.
There's no good way for an individual city to tax vapers: the vapers can just buy what they need elsewhere.
Now, how much per pack is the LA cigarette tax? And what would happen to the city budget if every cigarette smoker in LA became a vaper?
What's sickening is that petulant, whiny city governments say to their citizens, "we can't tax you, so you can't do it," and thereby condemn some of their citizens to bad health and premature death.
Yup, I agree, and that was expressed at the rally today. I will be writing an email to Garcetti tomorrow. I'm okay with the restaurant ban (honestly even though I vape I don't want to smell anything else in a restaurant when I'm trying to eat - I think an ordinance against too much cologne would be awesome too
If you are OK with one ban, of something that is harmful to no one, then it makes it much more difficult to truthfully be against another ban that others find is important. That person with their child in the park or at the beach may rightfully be disturbed by your vaping near them or within their line of sight. Since neither the ban you support or the one you don't, has anything to do with harm, then the difference between the two bans is simply a matter of perception. The person's perception who doesn't want you vaping in the park or at the beach is no less important than yours.
If a person is vaping courteously or talking on their phone courteously or listening to music courteously, where they are doing it should not be part of the equation.
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In my personal opinion vaping in an enclosed area in close proximity to other people when they are trying to eat is extremely impolite. We go to a Mexican restaurant fairly often that has two rows of booths separated only by a booth-high wall. I'm not very sensitive to perfume usually but one day we were seated and then asked to be moved because the woman on the other side was wearing so much perfume it was permeating everything and literally gave me a headache (again, I'm not usually sensitive to that). Vapor DOES travel and while it doesn't smell as bad as smoke, it will drift to other tables. It's not a health issue, it's annoying to other people when they are trying to eat to have vapor drifting over their table. Vapor dissipates so quickly outside that it's not an issue like it is indoors - I have seen very large groups of people vaping and it clears quickly. I don't agree with the "all or nothing" approach, just like you don't agree with bans that are all-encompassing.
People won't vape courteously, just like they didn't smoke courteously. Sad but true.
Precisely. And this is my world in Germany, Europe.
It may seem "bizarre" to those who are used to bans, prohibitions, loss of personal freedom and to fanatical busybodies sticking their noses into the lives of other people and accosting total strangers with nasty words and threats.
In Europe, our world is different.
So far. And, at 53, I most certainly hope that the Grim Reaper will take me away before my world becomes like yours.
This is not saying much about your country, is it now?
And it is not saying much about the willingness of the people in your country to fight for their personal freedom.
But, most of all, this is not saying much about your own attitude.
You may have resigned yourself to suffer failure. But why share this fatalistic attitude with others? Why discourage others who still have a spark of spirit in their souls?
If you fight, you may lose. But if you do not fight, you have already lost.
DISCLAIMER:
I have nothing against the US.
But, as a person living in Europe, I am often horrified to read stories here of strangers attacking (verbally or not verbally) people in the street for engaging in an activity that those strangers do not agree with.
And I am horrified to see the attitude even of some vapers themselves - who seem to have been brainwashed by years of indoctrination to believe that they themselves are bad and nasty and engaging in a bad and nasty habit. And that they deserve to be demonized and pushed around. - While some of them even demand that docile attitude of other vapers (!).
Whatever has become of "The land of the free and the home of the brave"?
Whatever has become of "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
Do not go gently into that good night
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!
Be brave, ignore the law, politely vape... If u r at a place with squares use unflavored juice. The smell is nearly undetectable. The police will never enforce this nonsense. Be stealthy and polite when need be, when u are not in a group of people then do as u like...
@ Anja: I live in California. I vape in public. I have never encountered any hostility from anyone. If anything, when people approach me, they usually ask, "Does this really work? I (my mother, father, uncle, girlfriend) want to quit and I've heard all kinds of things about those e-cigs... " I also often run into fellow vapers, who smile knowingly and wave, or we give each other a thumbs up.
I know that there are rude people everywhere--and that includes rude vapers and rude smokers.
I haven't been in Europe in a few years, but I was born and raised there. I love America--her puritanism, political fights and occasional bad manners notwithstanding.
"You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility."
-Winston Churchill
I bet every single doctor was paid not to defend e-cigarette users. Every single doctor of mine RECOMMENDED ecigs to me. Ever since last year my blood results have been improved. Doctor says my blood is healthy and the oxygen count is where it's supposed to be. Btw I do three physical exams a year, so I'm pretty convinced e-cigs are our saviors
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