Louise Ross: Scaremongering about e-cigarettes is not in the best interests of patients

[pennysmalls]

This was one of the articles posted in Jessica's thread "Nothing About Us, Without Us" but it deserves a thread of it's own. It's one of the best pieces I've read so far. Especially loved this...

"The antipathy towards nicotine needs to stop if we are to help smokers quit. That nicotine can be enjoyed safely is an uncomfortable concept to many, and is arguably at the heart of this debate. Demonised for decades because it was an integral component of a deadly product, combustible cigarettes, nicotine has been likened more recently not to ....... but to caffeine [6] in terms of its addictive properties. It is understandable that public health professionals will not easily abandon warnings that nicotine is highly addictive, but it is beyond comprehension that the same community will direct their hostility towards new nicotine products in a way that protects the old nicotine products like cigarettes. "

Louise Ross: Scaremongering about e-cigarettes is not in the best interests of patients « The counterfactual

 

[roxynoodle]

Now that's a sensible article.

 

[skoony]

Here's the part they don't tell you. The dependency rate in cigarette smokers
is roughly 30% The dependency could be anywhere from mild to acute. Its
not a one size fits all deal. The dependency rate in smokeless tobacco users
is significantly less.Less than 5%. Cigar smokers i think is right around 5%.
This was their first clue that perhaps nicotine wasn't the boogieman they
thought it was. As early as the Surgeon Generals 1964 report on smoking
they acknowledged that nicotine wasn't the issue, it was the smoke.
It wasn't until SG J. Edward Koops report that nicotine became the most
heinous drug known to mankind. OMG!, a 30% addiction rate.(dependency rate is a more accurate statement)
Alcohols dependency rate is between 10 and 12% Cigarette smoking about 30%
and some well known illegal substances in between. This sounds awfully bad
doesn't it?
No where does it tell one when a smokers teeth start to fall out. When they
will develop skin ulcers. How many packs a day does it take to cause profound
mental health issues. How much the crime rate is inflated by raging smokers
in need of a .....
If its true cigarettes will kill half of the life time users its also true of all the other
stuff most of which will kill you a whole lot quicker with more than likely greater
collateral damage. Its perspective. When the term addiction is used people
don't think of perhaps a mild dependency, they think of those people living
under the bridge by the tracks. This of course is intentional when the ANTZ
use the term.
Today we know nicotine alone administered for medicinal purposes causes
no dependency in those that have never used tobacco or a tobacco product.
Zero dependence! This is very important. This is the 800 pound gorilla in
the room. The ANTZ know this. Its long been known nicotine alone couldn't
be the primary cause of dependency in smokers. So why all the hysteria?
Its simple if nicotine alone can't cause dependency in non-tobacco users
then e-cigarettes cannot create a whole new generation of nicotine addicts.
The chillin' argument gets thrown out on its ..... If this argument gets thrown
out the rest falls like a house of cards. The chillin' are for lack of a better worn
the ANTZ's ace in the whole. Its what they are depending on because all their
science is failing.

Regards
mike

 

[pennysmalls]

Awesome post skoony!

 

[AndriaD]

Today we know nicotine alone administered for medicinal purposes causes no dependency in those that have never used tobacco or a tobacco product. Zero dependence! This is very important. This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. The ANTZ know this. Its long been known nicotine alone couldn't be the primary cause of dependency in smokers. So why all the hysteria? Its simple if nicotine alone can't cause dependency in non-tobacco users then e-cigarettes cannot create a whole new generation of nicotine addicts. The chillin' argument gets thrown out on its ..... If this argument gets thrown out the rest falls like a house of cards. The chillin' are for lack of a better worn
the ANTZ's ace in the whole. Its what they are depending on because all their science is failing.

Regards
mike

All that is why I've taken steps to gradually wean off WTA -- it's known that nicotine is not terribly dependence-producing, and it's starting to be known, among vapers at least, that some of us need more than nicotine in order to painlessly shed the cigarettes -- when the ANTZ discover WTA, it's either going to be banned completely, or turned into a BP drug -- which BP will then either get rid of, or price so sky-high that nobody but Gates or Buffett could afford it -- because if BP was REALLY interested in helping anyone get free of cigarettes, they would have ALREADY developed and marketed WTA themselves.

Andria

 

[pennysmalls]

I've never really understood what WTA is. How does it differ from the nic we buy from Wizard and so forth?

 

[AndriaD]

I've never really understood what WTA is. How does it differ from the nic we buy from Wizard and so forth?

From my website, AngryVaper -- Angry Vaper - About WTA ...

"Tobacco smoke contains, along with nicotine, the minor alkaloids anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine, as well as the monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) harman and norharman, which significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, three brain chemicals which are crucial for a personal sense of well-being. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOIs and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking, along with the fact that a person long-accustomed to the intake of even trace quantities of MAOIs will suffer symptoms of depression, anxiety, and other negative emotions, if those MAOIs are abruptly withdrawn."

Andria

 

[skoony]

All that is why I've taken steps to gradually wean off WTA -- it's known that nicotine is not terribly dependence-producing, and it's starting to be known, among vapers at least, that some of us need more than nicotine in order to painlessly shed the cigarettes -- when the ANTZ discover WTA, it's either going to be banned completely, or turned into a BP drug -- which BP will then either get rid of, or price so sky-high that nobody but Gates or Buffett could afford it -- because if BP was REALLY interested in helping anyone get free of cigarettes, they would have ALREADY developed and marketed WTA themselves.

Andria

I believe a lot of us needed more than nicotine when we switched. From the many posts
I have read and looking back on my personal experience a lot of us seemed to have vaped
more than what we smoked when first transitioning. I like many assumed it was the need for
nicotine. Its highly addictive you know. I now believe it wasn't necessarily the nicotine.
I was craving something else. What?,who knows. The nicotine however my have suppressed
the more serious withdrawal effects until I was detoxified enough to naturally cut back on
vaping and reducing my nicotine count. I think there may have been a placebo effect of some
sort going on also. My body recognized the nicotine and filled in the gaps. I went from 2 packs
or more a day,100 menthol full flavored to V2 cigalikes in one day.

Regards
mike

 

[AndriaD]

I believe a lot of us needed more than nicotine when we switched. From the many posts
I have read and looking back on my personal experience a lot of us seemed to have vaped
more than what we smoked when first transitioning. I like many assumed it was the need for
nicotine. Its highly addictive you know. I now believe it wasn't necessarily the nicotine.
I was craving something else. What?,who knows. The nicotine however my have suppressed
the more serious withdrawal effects until I was detoxified enough to naturally cut back on
vaping and reducing my nicotine count. I think there may have been a placebo effect of some
sort going on also. My body recognized the nicotine and filled in the gaps. I went from 2 packs
or more a day,100 menthol full flavored to V2 cigalikes in one day.

Regards
mike

It seems to me that for those, like you, who smoked a "full flavor" type, that nicotine may be enough to fend off the worst of the withdrawal symptoms, but that those smoking brands/types with less nicotine are actually more dependent on the full WTA cocktail than to nicotine alone -- the ultra-light cigarettes I smoked had very little nicotine in them, and 18mg and 12mg were both far too strong for me, they made me quite nauseous.

The first time around that I quit via vaping, the sheer novelty was enough to carry me thru the early days when withdrawal might have been an issue; but my 2nd time, after my month-long relapse, even though I was vaping far more nicotine that time than the first time (10mg vs 6mg), it simply wasn't enough to fend off the full-body cravings, despite my complete pleasure to be smoke-free again -- but when I added the WTA, the cravings completely vanished, just gone.

Andria

 

[skoony]

It seems to me that for those, like you, who smoked a "full flavor" type, that nicotine may be enough to fend off the worst of the withdrawal symptoms, but that those smoking brands/types with less nicotine are actually more dependent on the full WTA cocktail than to nicotine alone -- the ultra-light cigarettes I smoked had very little nicotine in them, and 18mg and 12mg were both far too strong for me, they made me quite nauseous.

The first time around that I quit via vaping, the sheer novelty was enough to carry me thru the early days when withdrawal might have been an issue; but my 2nd time, after my month-long relapse, even though I was vaping far more nicotine that time than the first time (10mg vs 6mg), it simply wasn't enough to fend off the full-body cravings, despite my complete pleasure to be smoke-free again -- but when I added the WTA, the cravings completely vanished, just gone.

Andria

The effects of nicotine vary from person to person.When i started vaping in terms of puffs per day
I was at way over 2 packs of smoking a day. Now I am at about one half to three quarters a pack
a day in terms of puffing. This all happened naturally with out any deliberate actions on my part.
I started reducing the nicotine my last resupply. For me if nicotine was that great of a factor
one would think there would be no reduction in puffing unless one upped the percentage
of nicotine. like I said every one is different.
Regards
mike

 

[AndriaD]

The effects of nicotine vary from person to person.When i started vaping in terms of puffs per day
I was at way over 2 packs of smoking a day. Now I am at about one half to three quarters a pack
a day in terms of puffing. This all happened naturally with out any deliberate actions on my part.
I started reducing the nicotine my last resupply. For me if nicotine was that great of a factor
one would think there would be no reduction in puffing unless one upped the percentage
of nicotine. like I said every one is different.
Regards
mike

I agree about nicotine; I've aso found it VERY easy, much easier than I ever suspected it would be, to cut down my nic level. But that doesn't answer the quandary about why some require WTA and some can get by without it; as I said, I think it's because those who were long-accustomed to very-light-nicotine in their cigarettes don't need much nic and really can't handle it without extreme nausea -- but just the fact that they smoked means they had the dependence on the whole tobacco alkaloid cocktail. When one can't handle much nic even to start, when withdrawal would be a big issue, something else is needed.

Andria

 

[Bill Godshall]

Please note that Clive Bates reposted Louise Ross' article that appeared in a pay walled pharmacy journal at
Scaremongering about e-cigarettes is not in the best interest of patients

 

[Moonbogg]

Smokeless tobacco is the most powerful form of nicotine addiction I have had the displeasure of experiencing. Maybe those tiny little Swedish snus packets aren't as addicting, but the huge pinch of American snuff will hook you like a fish.

 

[skoony]

Smokeless tobacco is the most powerful form of nicotine addiction I have had the displeasure of experiencing. Maybe those tiny little Swedish snus packets aren't as addicting, but the huge pinch of American snuff will hook you like a fish.

mike

 

[sofarsogood]

When I started vaping my cigs went from 25 to 5 a day with no apparent effort, no will power. My perception at the time was that vaping was covering the nic part but not everything. When I went to zero cigs, 6 weeks later, it felt like the will power needed was only 20% of what would have been required without vaping. Today I vape more than I smoked and I'm sure there's more nic in my system than when Ii smoked. I'd like to puff less. The DNA 200 board can collect detailed information about how we vape. May be a future version can help ration vaping and reduce it. I got control of smoking, why not the same with vaping.

 

[AndriaD]

When I started vaping my cigs went from 25 to 5 a day with no apparent effort, no will power. My perception at the time was that vaping was covering the nic part but not everything. When I went to zero cigs, 6 weeks later, it felt like the will power needed was only 20% of what would have been required without vaping. Today I vape more than I smoked and I'm sure there's more nic in my system than when Ii smoked. I'd like to puff less. The DNA 200 board can collect detailed information about how we vape. May be a future version can help ration vaping and reduce it. I got control of smoking, why not the same with vaping.

I think with vaping it's mostly just a matter of time -- when I first quit smoking, my vape was pretty much affixed to my hand every waking minute; not so much anymore. In fact sometimes I go 30 minutes without even thinking of it. I expect that the longer I'm away from cigarettes, the less I will "need" the vape. And cutting down nicotine has been far easier than I ever dreamed it would be, though I didn't even consider doing it till I'd been smoke-free for over a year. The only reason I'm doing it now is to see if halving my nicotine will help the wintertime popsicle paws problem. Even if it doesn't help that problem... it means my nic stash will last twice as long.

Andria