Lucid Dreaming

[owningtheday]

I mean, I use the term loosely here. So I'm up and having a normal day. I do some study, some social networking, some 3D contact (old-school face-to-face), I go out. About 2am I look at the clock and go 'whoops'. I lay in bed and I read. The words are jumping out at me, part dyslexia, mostly just sleepytime. I fall asleep and within the hour I'm awake, and not in a good way; in a pisshole in the snow way. I have a grumble and use the toilet. An hour later I'm awake again. Good news is I wrote a 500 word part essay when I woke up the second time.

I have noticed that I'm concentrating a LOT more, and I know that part of that is down to quitting dirty analogues and getting cleaner nicotine, so I figure that is the nicotine that upset my sleep. Then again, it hasn't before, and I do have a smoke in bed. I never used to smoke indoors, but now I can. It seems not rude to. Maybe I should get a second 'night night vape' with zero nicotine.

Sorry if this seems obvious, this really is a brand-new, and massive, change for me.

 

[khalidmna]

I've heard about this before where some people who vape immediately before going to sleep have weird and unpleasant dreams. For me, I found that anything higher than 6MG of nicotine did affect my sleep. I also think you're right about vaping giving a more purer form of nicotine. After all nicotine is a stimulant - which again is strange because I do feel a bit drowsy when I vape. Try lowering your nic level.

 

[Brotolemaeus]

I get ridiculous dreams if I vape in bed before sleep, its actually pretty enjoyable.

 

[Utsuru]

I didn't see a question in there but I'll chime in, I was really hoping you were talking about actual lucid dreams but I see where you're coming from, my sleep has been highly disrupted after quitting smoking despite taking in what seems like much less nicotine than cigarettes.

A quick little thing though for anyone that wants to lucid dream or is curious about it, yes you can and yes you should. I've had some of the most powerful moments in my sleep that I was in control of, wilder than any drug. The amount of resources on it and learning it is crazy, a quick google search will do better than I can do, but I'll quickly share my experience.

You can get started literally right this moment. If you dream, you can now start increasing not only the frequency of your dreams but the vivid, intense realistic feeling of them.

Start right now, it's easy. This is what worked for me and I lucid dream a few times a week: Look at your dominant hand. The hand you write with. Take a good look at the palm and your fingers, you likely don't routinely inspect your hand. Take a sec to see how it moves, how long your fingers are, how wide your hand is.

Your hand is your ticket into the lucid dreaming realm and believe me, it's wild, man. Look at your hand as many times as you can within reason for a week or two. Wiggle your fingers, pay attention to how long they are and how they move, really try to take a lot of mental notes.

I guarantee pretty soon after this you will find yourself within a dream, and in this dream, you're going to look at your hand. The same hand you've done everything with your whole life, but something is going to feel weird. You'll maybe have really long fingers or maybe a giant hand like those foam-fingers at sport events but you WILL know something is off with your hand.

Now the key is the remain as calm as possible which is hard to do when you're in a dream-state and your subconcious mind holds all the cards but it really is easy after a few tries. Just calmly say to yourself "Ok, I'm dreaming, I'll just stay right here, everything's okay." You have to control yourself when you enter this weird world but when you do, you'll realize that when you go to sleep it may be one of the most wild experiences of your life.

Practice on learning what your hand looks like, seriously. Count 1,2,3,4,5 on your fingers every time you think about it for a few days and you will find yourself in a really trippy dream realm with infinite outcomes.

I've flown across the world, dove down into the sea, floated through orbit, etc. all from the safety of my own conscience. I hope this helps someone, lucid dreaming is super easy and one of the wildest experienced I think a human can go through without taking drugs. My two pennies, sorry for errors, using a phone.

 

[The Ocelot]

...After all nicotine is a stimulant - which again is strange because I do feel a bit drowsy when I vape.

Not strange at all. Nicotine can act as both a stimulant and a relaxant. (Although I still have to lower my nic level at night or I get wired.)

Warning! Too Much Information Alert!

Studies suggest that when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine[1]. This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a higher level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer with increasing dosages and use, a phenomenon described by Paul Nesbitt in his doctoral dissertation[2] and subsequently referred to as "Nesbitt's Paradox."[3]

1. Golding, J. F.; Mangan, G. L. (1989). "Factors Governing Recruitment to and Maintenance of Smoking". In Einstein, Stanley. Drug and Alcohol Use. pp. 101–17. doi:10.1007/978-1-4899-0888-9_9. ISBN 978-1-4899-0890-2.
2. Nesbitt P (1969). Smoking, physiological arousal, and emotional response. Unpublished doctoral dissertation, Columbia University.
3. Parrott AC (January 1998). "Nesbitt's Paradox resolved? Stress and arousal modulation during cigarette smoking". Addiction 93 (1): 27–39. doi:10.1046/j.1360-0443.1998.931274.x. PMID 9624709.

 

[Nermal]

Interesting, and not too much information at all.

 

[Utsuru]

Not strange at all. Nicotine can act as both a stimulant and a relaxant. (Although I still have to lower my nic level at night or I get wired.)

Warning! Too Much Information Alert!

Studies suggest that when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine[1]. This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a higher level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer with increasing dosages and use, a phenomenon described by Paul Nesbitt in his doctoral dissertation[2] and subsequently referred to as "Nesbitt's Paradox."[3]

1. Golding, J. F.; Mangan, G. L. (1989). "Factors Governing Recruitment to and Maintenance of Smoking". In Einstein, Stanley. Drug and Alcohol Use. pp. 101–17. doi:10.1007/978-1-4899-0888-9_9. ISBN 978-1-4899-0890-2.
2. Nesbitt P (1969). Smoking, physiological arousal, and emotional response. Unpublished doctoral dissertation, Columbia University.
3. Parrott AC (January 1998). "Nesbitt's Paradox resolved? Stress and arousal modulation during cigarette smoking". Addiction 93 (1): 27–39. doi:10.1046/j.1360-0443.1998.931274.x. PMID 9624709.

Good post. Also if people are curious, look up writers who smoke. You'd be surprised just how many famous writers' works are fueled by nicotine.

 

[owningtheday]

Thanks folks. Lucid dreaming isn't really the issue. I can deal with that. Done my 'things' over the decades, and the 24 hour patches. It's the waking every hour that's got me down, always happens on a real busy day. I guess I was asking for information, and I got tons of it. The question was, is the nic keeping me from getting into REM sleep?

Warning! Too Much Information Alert

Not at all. I have ADHD. It makes sense that some psychostims would have an opposite effect, as would some sedatives. Morphine, for example, has given me more than one serious panic attack. so it makes sense that overdoing the nic could 'wire' me a little.

Serotonin May Hold Key to Hyperactivity Disorder | HHMI.org

 

[The Ocelot]

One thing that skews the information I posted is that while referring to nicotine, the delivery system in the studies is cigarettes which have additional ingredients with psychoactive properties, like MAOIs; plus, the increased carbon dioxide levels in ones blood can affect the CNS.

But back to your current question: If I understand what I'm reading, while it seems the stimulating affects of nicotine might interfere with falling sleep or falling deep enough into sleep to reach the REM phase, it might not specifically interfere with REM sleep once in that phase due to the release of acetylcholine.

"When a cigarette is smoked, nicotine-rich blood passes from the lungs to the brain within seven seconds and immediately stimulates the release of many chemical messengers such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, arginine vasopressin, serotonin, dopamine, and beta-endorphin.[1][2] This release of neurotransmitters and hormones is responsible for most of nicotine's psychoactive effects. Nicotine appears to enhance concentration[3] and memory due to the increase of acetylcholine. It also appears to enhance alertness due to the increases of acetylcholine and norepinephrine."

"REM sleep is "paradoxical" because of its similarities to wakefulness. Although the body is paralyzed, the brain acts somewhat awake. Electroencephalography during REM sleep usually reveals fast, desynchronized, low-amplitude "brainwaves" (neural oscillations), which differ from the slow δ (delta) waves of deep sleep but resemble patterns seen during wakefulness."[4][5]

"Compared to slow-wave sleep, both waking and paradoxical sleep involve higher use of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which may cause the faster brainwaves. The monoamine neurotransmitters norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine are completely unavailable. Injections of acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, which effectively increases available acetylcholine, have been found to induce paradoxical sleep in humans and other animals already in slow-wave sleep."

Keep in mind that I'm just posting information I found on the web. You know your body better than anyone. If you feel nic is adversely affecting your sleep is probably is.


1) Pomerleau OF, Pomerleau CS (1984). "Neuroregulators and the reinforcement of smoking: Towards a biobehavioral explanation". Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 8: 503–513. doi:10.1016/0149-7634(84)90007-1.
2) Pomerleau OF, Rosecrans J (1989). "Neuroregulatory effects of nicotine". Psychoneuroendocrinology 14: 407–423. doi:10.1016/0306-4530(89)90040-1.
3) Rusted J, Graupner L, O'Connell N, Nicholls C (August 1994). "Does nicotine improve cognitive function?". Psychopharmacology (Berl.) 115 (4): 547–9. doi:10.1007/BF02245580. PMID 7871101.
4) Ritchie E. Brown & Robert W. McCarley (2008), "Neuroanatomical and neurochemical basis of wakefulness and REM sleep systems", in Neurochemistry of Sleep and Wakefulness ed. Monti et al.
5) Steriade & McCarley (1990), Brainstem Control of Wakefulness and Sleep", §1.2 (pp. 7–23).


ETA: Another thing worth pondering: if you are taking medication for ADHD, nicotine might change its effects.

 

[The Ocelot]

Good post. Also if people are curious, look up writers who smoke. You'd be surprised just how many famous writers' works are fueled by nicotine.

and coffee and alcohol...

 

[Bunnykiller]

I "suffered" with the lucid dreams as I was getting off of the ciggies... and considered that the nic from the juice was the issue but wait... ciggies have nic too. Why wasnt the ciggies causing the dreams also? Then it hit me, its the lack of ciggies causing the dreams... duh
Since Ive been vaping for a while, the dreams have subsided and sleep patterns have become normal..