Mac Vs PC...Whatcha think????

[Wireguy]

Ah WTH, I'll jump in. I'm a 15+ year Mac user, here's my 2¢:

I find this thread a bit ironic considering the subforum its in.

I mean, why do you buy from V4L? You know you could order cheaper, plainer versions of the same stuff elsewhere. You could assemble a kit with plain white batts from one place, and questionable cartos that might be ok from another, and maybe a PT from some guy who just opened a webshop 2 weeks ago. You could order from another well known vendor that has less than stellar customer service. You could hope they're not selling factory rejects they got cheap. And you could hope they would take returns if something went wrong.
You could also try holding your breath for a long time.
You could assemble the whole thing for less- and argue it's just as good. It may not be pretty but it gets the job done... well kinda. Right?

So why buy from V4L?
Quality, Service, Looks, Reliability, Reputation, Loyalty.

V4L makes sure they have good juice. They make sure that the factory producing their batts does it right. They made the items personalized so you could have a vaping experience tailored to you. They stamp their reputation all over everything they put out. They guarantee every bit of it. And you all love belonging to this club, you'll pay more for a large variety of reasons.

That sounds a lot like Apple.

I paid $1000 for my last MacBook. Sure I could have built myself one for $20 with parts from Frys but I haven't the knowledge or patience.

I could have bought a $600 HP or whatever from Best Buy but when it went kabooey (like my husband's- 2 of them in 2 years) I'd probably be pretty much out of luck. I could peck around on ebay hoping that the $150 part we need would actually work and wasn't a cheap rip off. I could try to get the crappy warranty honored through BestBuy only to have them say HP refused or wanted to keep it for 4 weeks to investigate.

But I don't do any of that, I have a Mac. When my machines have problems I take them to the Apple store, and after a bunch of nice staff members figure out what the problem is, they take it and give it back with a new motherboard, keyboard, case, LCD whatever. The longest they've ever kept one was 3 days, and I've never paid for a repair.
When something craps out I drive to the store and they fix it. That's not with additional AppleCare service, once it wasn't even under warranty.

When my logic board went bad in the middle of me working on the tightest deadline in history for a ad campaign for Volvo an Apple guy drove my laptop across town and the guy at the other store stayed late to repair it. They gave it to me the next morning. I made my deadline.

Since the stores opened here I've been in there a lot and gotten to know the people who work there. It's similar to the way you guys feel about the V4L staff: they know me, they take care of problems with a smile, they actually seem to care and I know they're going to do whatever they have to to make things right. I get the feeling of having an extended family that's into the same stuff I am.

It's not just about hardware or software. It's partially about the experience as well. Other people may have a different experience with Apple, but that's mine for what it's worth.

There are a lot of other practical reasons I'm a Mac girl but that's the part that seems relevant to this forum anyway.

You are correct. I however am a Tinkerer. It's why I have 510, 901 parts strewn all over the desk. 801 and others parts coming soon. Three mods in the works. Nothing wrong with either approach. And yes I do see the irony.

As for the computers, what Mac PC (Windows) discussion would be complete without the lone Linux dweeb piping in.

Thats me. All my boxes run some flavor of Linux. A couple dual boot Windows. Mainly for talking people through problems over the phone when I can't remember where something is.

We tend to be our own service department. The last time my mission critical machine went down I swiveled around booted another machine, installed the software and was up and running in 20 minutes. We also tend to collect other peoples old computers. I said I was a tinkerer.

As for the Mac PC thing. They both work. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

Kind of like PV's.

Now that we have a complete Mac PC thread all that is missing is, what was the end result for the OP?

 

[Birdy]

And thanks for comparing V4L to Apple! Maybe that'll be our new motto; V4L, the Apple of e-cigs!

heh. That's how it seems to me, but I'm biased

I think it's a good comparison. If something works, makes you happy, improves your life and you enjoy collecting it and using it, and you are willing to pay a bit more for those things... why worry about if your choice is the most popular, or widely supported, or what other people think about it?

The emotional, experiential aspect of owning a product is more universal and important than people are willing to admit. What a boring lot we'd all be if it was only about being excessively frugal and practical all the time.

As for the computers, what Mac PC (Windows) discussion would be complete without the lone Linux dweeb piping in.

Hey Linux, I swear you guys got tired of waiting and are mounting your quiet invasion by way of the unassuming netbook. Just watch, 10 years from now you'll rule them all. Excelsior!

 

[grimmer255]

what's great about the mac is everything.... the software is actually designed around the hardware and almost every hardware parts actually does what it is designed to do. PC doesn't do that. Microsoft makes the software but all these hardware devices do not work like there designed to do because PC puts most of the work on the processor.
But mac makes most of the hardware work like there suppose to.Thats why when you boot up a mac everything just simply works and works fast especially right out of the box with barely any updates to download.

I got my new laptop with windows 7 and holy cow it worked out of the box but had several problems.... my nic card wasnt working right. I had to do several driver updates. It took me a couple of hours to finally get it to work almost decent. But my wireless nic card is still losing signal all the time. I have 3 gigs of DDR3 and all kinds of stuff and my macbook is still faster and performs up to extreme use. Why because the OS is designed for it the hardware. They actually work with each not against each other like a PC does.
So yea you may pay more but the mac is designed right....and what's better is the processor is designed for a PC but mac made it work better and faster. hmmmmmmm makes you wonder.

 

[DanF]

As for the computers, what Mac PC (Windows) discussion would be complete without the lone Linux dweeb piping in.

You are not the lone dweeb(actually I figured I was), I manage about 14 *nix servers(mix of linux, free bsd, net bsd, etc), also for development purposes.

 

[Justin Credible]

what's great about the mac is everything.... the software is actually designed around the hardware and almost every hardware parts actually does what it is designed to do. PC doesn't do that. Microsoft makes the software but all these hardware devices do not work like there designed to do because PC puts most of the work on the processor.
But mac makes most of the hardware work like there suppose to.Thats why when you boot up a mac everything just simply works and works fast especially right out of the box with barely any updates to download.

I got my new laptop with windows 7 and holy cow it worked out of the box but had several problems.... my nic card wasnt working right. I had to do several driver updates. It took me a couple of hours to finally get it to work almost decent. But my wireless nic card is still losing signal all the time. I have 3 gigs of DDR3 and all kinds of stuff and my macbook is still faster and performs up to extreme use. Why because the OS is designed for it the hardware. They actually work with each not against each other like a PC does.
So yea you may pay more but the mac is designed right....and what's better is the processor is designed for a PC but mac made it work better and faster. hmmmmmmm makes you wonder.

Mr. Jobs, is that you?

Intel processors are not exclusively designed for any platform, and Apple was smart to finally give in and switch to Intel. Although, to be fair, Apple always tries to force their own failure on the rest of the industry and ends up finally giving in and adapting to what "just works."

As far as your updates are concerned, I'm not 100% positive why you're complaining. "Stupid manufacturer trying to ensure that I'm safe." I especially like how you specify that your 7 machine worked well right out of the box, then say that there were several driver updates to do (for your nic), and that after all your work it worked decently.

Out of the box -> Worked great
Nic isn't working -> users applies several driver updates (?)
User is done working -> Only works decently

P.I.C.N.I.C.

 

[Teibidh]

Honestly I have the same issue with Linux that I have with MacOS... If there were more software available I'd be there. I have a Pentium-D (first iteration of dual core from Intel commercially available) box sitting in the closet that's running a LFS build I did a few months back that I use as a media server and for e-mail delivery, but I can't use it as a main OS cause there's too much crap I wanna do that I don't want to have to write software for

 

[Birdy]

what's great about the mac is everything.... the software is actually designed around the hardware and almost every hardware parts actually does what it is designed to do. PC doesn't do that. Microsoft makes the software but all these hardware devices do not work like there designed to do because PC puts most of the work on the processor.
But mac makes most of the hardware work like there suppose to.Thats why when you boot up a mac everything just simply works and works fast especially right out of the box with barely any updates to download.

...Apple was smart to finally give in and switch to Intel. Although, to be fair, Apple always tries to force their own failure on the rest of the industry and ends up finally giving in and adapting to what "just works."

@Justin-
I do agree with the root of grimmer's comment (the first part).
What I mean is, if I was going to buy a PC I would ask a friend who knew PCs inside and out, like you maybe, to build it for me. Because I honestly don't know what parts I'd need, I'd have no idea what graphics card or sound card or logicboard or whatever to buy... or what hardware is suitable to Windows, or the apps I planed on using most, etc.

So I'd find someone who did and because I don't suck and I believe your time and expertise is valuable I'd pay you what you deserved for doing that. How much would be good? $300, $500? More? So we'd go buy the parts. Then I'd need to buy the software... How much does Windows cost if I buy it off the shelf? What configuration do I need? And of course I'd want to pay you a retainer so that if it breaks in the next year or so you'd be willing to help me.

I mean it. If I were going to buy a PC that's exactly what I'd do. Or I'd go do something similar at say Sony.

And that's what the typical user is getting when they buy a Mac. They're paying someone who knows more about this crap to put it together for them in a way that they know will work. And then load it full of software. And then agree to fix it when it breaks, and update it when it needs it.

When I think about it this way it doesn't really seem very expensive or outlandish to me. Do you know what I mean?

 

[Sky-Guy]

The Beta vs VHS analogy is quite appropriate...
Beta was a far superior technology than VHS, but it simply got out marketed by VHS and lost it's market share. Once a technology has the lions share of the market, it doesn't need to be the best to keep the momentum.
The reason the most demanding aspect of video recording to this day has it's roots in Beta technology is because truly superior technology will find a way to survive... that would explain why Apple computer never disappeared despite the overwhelming majority of the market belonging to PCs.
Sadly, while everybody pays lip service to the expression "you get what you pay for", very few consumers are really willing to pay for quality, even consumers who can afford it. Of course there are exceptions to this, like luxury cars, but then that's more for the status than for the quality.

Oh, yeah, BTW, 90% of my cartos suck! Almost no vapor... If I puff like a madman I can get vapor, but as soon as I inhale and exhale... nada (or near nada). Found if I blow out some liquid thru the bat end it helps, but only for a very short time. (And I'm talking about brand new cartos, not refils). I have yet to have a decent "smoke" from my VKs... I would LOVE to have a reasonable amount of vapor with the VK so I can have just one supplier... V4L is an awesome company.
I've resorted to buying a battery adaptor and using a 510 atty on my VK batteries... question for the VK crew... why do some batteries have a groove in the end with the threads and some don't? The battery adaptor only works on the bats without the grove.

 

[Justin Credible]

@Justin-
I do agree with the root of grimmer's comment (the first part).
What I mean is, if I was going to buy a PC I would ask a friend who knew PCs inside and out, like you maybe, to build it for me. Because I honestly don't know what parts I'd need, I'd have no idea what graphics card or sound card or logicboard or whatever to buy... or what hardware is suitable to Windows, or the apps I planed on using most, etc.

So I'd find someone who did and because I don't suck and I believe your time and expertise is valuable I'd pay you what you deserved for doing that. How much would be good? $300, $500? More? So we'd go buy the parts. Then I'd need to buy the software... How much does Windows cost if I buy it off the shelf? What configuration do I need? And of course I'd want to pay you a retainer so that if it breaks in the next year or so you'd be willing to help me.

I mean it. If I were going to buy a PC that's exactly what I'd do. Or I'd go do something similar at say Sony.

And that's what the typical user is getting when they buy a Mac. They're paying someone who knows more about this crap to put it together for them in a way that they know will work. And then load it full of software. And then agree to fix it when it breaks, and update it when it needs it.

When I think about it this way it doesn't really seem very expensive or outlandish to me. Do you know what I mean?

Oh definitely, and please don't think that I'm trying to "convert" anyone here at all. I will never say that Macs aren't quality products or that their customer service isn't phenomenal, however I just don't see that they're actually worth the cost.

Let me specify something here; My borderline hatred for Macs isn't with the machines themselves, rather with Steve Jobs and the fanboys. What gets me is that Steve Jobs helped to create Apple/Macintosh. He was then fired because they believed he was driving the company into the ground. He then founded NeXT computers. Those computers were fantastic to look at, but they were extremely overpriced and simply could not perform up to a level that justified the price charged. NeXT computers failed. Steve Jobs returned to Apple/Macintosh. What happened then? Apple/Macintosh ended up about an inch from bankruptcy because they charged too much for underperforming machines. Bill Gates was then facing losing a hell of a lot of money due to monopoly laws (as he had already been sued for before), so he bailed out Apple. At that point you would think that Mr. Jobs would've learned, but of course not.. He designs more great looking machines and charges way too much money for them. Apple was again inching close to bankruptcy when they released their savior, the iPod. The release of the iPod was like a gym membership and 100 gallons of steroids for Apple, and they finally started standing on their own legs. After all of that you'd think that Mr. Jobs would have learned.. But no, he releases the abomination that is the Macbook Air. A wildly overpriced and underperforming machine that might as well be the posterchild for Apple computers.

With all that said you know what really gets me about Steve Jobs? He's on the payroll for his own company for $1/year. I am fully aware that other CEO's do that as well, but it doesn't mean that every single one of them should not be in prison. 100 wrongs don't make a right.

The ultimate kicker? While Steve Jobs proves time and time again that he is not capable of even halfway running a company (as well as proving that he's in love with price gouging), people are singing his praises and making it seem as if he is the Lord Savior of the IT industry. This is all going on while Microsoft spends millions of dollars in trying to produce a secure OS that is easy to network while still being user friendly. That is no easy feat. But because people go out of their way to attack Windows computers as much as possible they somehow make it seem as if the OS itself isn't superior.

To me that is like giving someone that has never driven a car in their life a Koenigsegg and when they wreck it blaming Koenigsegg for not having an idiot-proof supercar.

It baffles me, it really does. I'm a sucker for people being given the respect that they're due, and there's a 1-2 punch at work here. Microsoft puts forth the most advanced OS in the world (arguably) and they get shafted because they're a majority of the market. At the same time Apple takes the hard work of programmers all over the world, modifies it, and sells it at a premium without giving a single one of those programmers any credit at all.

Sorry about the rant.

 

[Birdy]

Oh definitely, and please don't think that I'm trying to "convert" anyone here at all. I will never say that Macs aren't quality products or that their customer service isn't phenomenal, however I just don't see that they're actually worth the cost.

Let me specify something here; My borderline hatred for Macs isn't with the machines themselves, rather with Steve Jobs and the fanboys.

Yeah, I can understand that. I haven't kept up with all the backroom drama for a long time, if I had I might be as irked as a lot of people (I personally think Gates and Jobs are both dbags). Even though it may not seem like it from my comments I'm not a fangirl- I mean, I'm a fan but it's because Macs work for me and I feel comfortable with them.

Honestly a good portion of my loyalty and affection comes from the fact that I grew up on them (the c64s don't count). They were in my schools and my first computer was an Apple. I bought it because I wanted to be a digital artist and work at ILM - so at the time my only real options were either an Apple or an Amiga2000. I couldn't grok my mom's Windows 2 machine (she's an engineer and all her apps were utterly inscrutable to me)... So I saved up my allowance- a lot of it- and got an Apple. So yeah, my preference is kinda hardwired in there I guess.

But I'll say this, if and when MS comes out with an operating system that feels as natural to me, and I can buy it on a machine from a company that I trust... I wouldn't have any issue having a PC. None at all

 

[Justin Credible]

Oddly enough I grew loving Macs as well. My father had macs, grandfather had macs, grandmother had macs.. But I had a junky win 3 pc. I always thought that it was boring and just wanted a Mac.

Ironic, eh?

 

[Birdy]

Oddly enough I grew loving Macs as well. My father had macs, grandfather had macs, grandmother had macs.. But I had a junky win 3 pc. I always thought that it was boring and just wanted a Mac.

Ironic, eh?

Ha!
My mom thought I was nuts for wanting a Mac, or any frivolous machine... but then she also thought I was daft for not wanting to speak math and work at nasa. So maybe I actually just bought an Apple to piss her off.
Well, I feel like I've made a real breakthough here... I don't love Macs, I just have mommy issues

 

[Wireguy]

Birdy said> I personally think Gates and Jobs are both dbags

Yes they are but if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be having this dialogue now. IBM would still own the computer world and it would be corporate only. This is not IBM bashing, I own IBM stock.

Birdy said> But I'll say this, if and when MS comes out with an operating system that feels as natural to me, and I can buy it on a machine from a company that I trust... I wouldn't have any issue having a PC. None at all

Ahh, there's the rub. No operating system feels natural until you learn it. All personal computers operate basically the same. You just have to learn how the GUI treats the 0 and 1s. Don't get me wrong. I could give a rats a*s about which OS is better. You are where you need to be and I am where I need to be. I just like open source stuff.

Mac rules!
Windows rules!
Linux rules!

Naah.Its all a go where you are comfortable and has the applications you need.

 

[Wireguy]

Ha!
My mom thought I was nuts for wanting a Mac, or any frivolous machine... but then she also thought I was daft for not wanting to speak math and work at nasa. So maybe I actually just bought an Apple to piss her off.
Well, I feel like I've made a real breakthough here... I don't love Macs, I just have mommy issues

Giggle. My dad was a systems engineer at IBM. He tried to teach me RPG the IBM programing language at the time. Maybe my ultimate rebellion was Linux. I had daddy issues!

 

[CDC700]

I still remember when we were being taught BASIC in school. We upgraded twice, from a vic-20 to a commodore 64(with a tape drive), then came the apple IIE

 

[smc]

I still remember when we were being taught BASIC in school. We upgraded twice, from a vic-20 to a commodore 64(with a tape drive), then came the apple IIE

Ahhh. the days of commodore and apple IIe. Used the Apple IIe in elementary school. I really wanted a commodore when I was a child. Instead my parents bought me an Atari 800xl, and then later an Atari 1400xl. Still have both of them. EA's One on One (Dr J vs Larry Bird) still works.

 

[CDC700]

Funny thing i remember is my parents dropped 1400.00 for a commodore 64 with a dot matrix and floppy drive..... And people say a MAC is too expensive???

 

[TheTout]

Got my first real computer in 1983 it had a switch in the back to go from 6 to 8 megahertz and the biggest hard drive I could find 20 megabytes. Now I have a flash drive with 16 gig!!!

Bet you can tell how old I am now!

 

[Teibidh]

My first home PC was a Wang Labs PC with a DOS Emulator that would boot DOS 3.3. Had a Hercules graphics adapter and a whopping 10MB Winchester drive along with a stunning 340KB of RAM.

 

[TheTout]

yeah 128k for me monitor weight like 50 pounds, it was an IBM back when they were business machines.