Magical non-addictive nicotine! Or is somebody's nose getting longer?

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satchvai

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So cigarettes taste good? o_O

I kinda got used to the taste of nic gum, particularly the citrus kind. I've found it fairly effective at suppressing the urge to open the emergency exit and climb out on the wing for a smoke (or a vape) at 30,000 feet. Even after nearly 1000 days off cigarettes, I still won't fly or report for jury duty without it.
Relatively speaking, yes. I was used to the taste of cigarettes after 30 years. It wasn't until vaping I realized how nasty they were.
 

GBalkam

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Isnt it pretty much established that Nicotine by itself is at worst just "mildly addictive" (whatever that means, but I cant phrase it any better) and maybe not even that?
Just yesterday I forgot my vape at home and had to "endure" a whole day without it. Real cravings? None. Now imagine a smoker in the same position.

Also, I cant be the only one who had this "something is missing" feeling for the first 2 weeks when I made the switch. It was there no matter how much I vaped, even when I Nic dizzied myself from chain vaping.
Think about these facts and the myth of "Nicotine addiction" falls apart.

Now I get that not everybody reacts to Nicotine (or whatever substance, really) the same way; some people need their WTAs in their vape and some may have a harder time from Nic withdrawal then others; but it clearly isn't that super addictive drug that we are lead to believe.
It was the ritual of smoking that was missing. In other posts, where people had stated they were trying to get off cigarettes, I always recommend something with an adjustable airflow or ecig type.. something you have to sit and puff on like you would an actual cigarette.. especially after meals, with coffee, break time at work.. etc. 5 minutes of puffing and the feeling will pass.
 

GBalkam

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Relatively speaking, yes. I was used to the taste of cigarettes after 30 years. It wasn't until vaping I realized how nasty they were.

Just made me think of something..
3m-9922-elle-boyama-isleri-icin-solunum-maskesi-2-li-paket-22144-10-B.jpg

Take your public vape hit, put the mask over your nose and mouth to exhale.
If a guy wanted to be real fancy... lol.. a short length of hose from your vape gear into the hole in the mask..
maybe not on an airplane.. but some idiot is going to come up with a vape exhale filter eventually. Or just exhale through a handkerchief, tissue, coffee filter.. shirt sleeve.. etc
 

markfm

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My take, having been around a while, is that nicotine dependency is real, but analogous to being hooked on another relatively common stimulant, caffeine. Addiction is likely too strong a term.

When I first quit smoking I definitely needed to bump to pretty high nic levels, as I was getting over the lack of MAOIs in cigarettes.

After that initial phase I was okay cutting my nic levels, but I did it slowly. My progression was around 24 - 21 -18 - 16 - 14 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 I DIY so hitting any given level was easy, and I stayed at a given level for multiple weeks before dropping another level. I'd tend to bump ml/day for a couple days, then drop back to my long term 6 ml/day (this was back in the day, low power devices). I never found a need to bump back up in nicotine, just took my time decreasing.

I stayed at 6 a long time, just no urge to cut further. I did use my vaping to replace a lot of my coffee consumption -- I love good coffee, but don't drink anywhere near as much as I did before I vaped.

Since recently switching to higher power gear I flipped to 3 mg/ml, will probably cut to 2.5 mg/ml fairly soon (mixing 120 ml at a time makes these things simpler :) )

At my present level of use, I have no issue going 0 nic for periods of time, though still do prefer to have some nicotine.
 
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GBalkam

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Apr 29, 2016
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Prime example of avoiding the question?

-----Original Message-----

From: Gary Balkam [mailto:removed for antispam]

Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 6:59 PM

To: CDER DRUG INFO

Subject: CDER Contact Information



CDER Contact Information



Apparently, nicotine is only addictive when it is in the FDAs best (read

financial) interest to be addictive. Deeming that vaping products are

addictive, yet the exact same drug nicotine, in patches and gum (how

much, exactly is Johnson and Johnson (parent co of nicorette) and Pharma

paying you?



Does the FDA expect to maintain public credibility?



Nicotine either IS or IS NOT and I quote "HIGHLY ADDICTIVE" (per fda on

ecigs and vaping). Pick one and stick to it!

Gary Balkam
From: CDER DRUG INFO <DRUGINFO@fda.hhs.gov>
Sent: August 8, 2016 11:15 AM
To: 'Gary Balkam'
Subject: RE: CDER Contact Information

Dear Gary Balkam,


Thank you for writing the Division of Drug Information, in the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER). We appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns on this important matter. Please allow us to provide you with the following information.


Please note that until recently vaping products were not regulated in the U.S. FDA’s New Regulations for E-Cigarettes, Cigars, and All Other Tobacco Products. This means that a stringent regulatory body had not confirmed any data to support these products were safe for public consumption FDA Warns of Health Risks Posed by E-Cigarettes and Less Risky Tobacco Product? Only if the Science Says So.


However, nicotine gum has under gone clinical trials and shown that it is safe and effective when used in accordance with the labeled directions. You can find some of the review for nicotine gum here Drugs@FDA: FDA Approved Drug Products.


However, if you require more information than what is posted on our www.fda.gov website you may want to consider submitting a Freedom of Information (FOI) Act request for this information. FOI allows for request of information that is not publically available. You can find instructions and the information on fees for this request at Freedom of Information. FDA is only allowed to release information in accordance with the applicable laws and regulations.


Best regards,


ZA

Division of Drug Information

Center for Drug Evaluation and Research

Food and Drug Administration


For up-to-date drug information, follow the FDA's Division of Drug Information on Twitter: @FDA_Drug_Info (FDA Drug Information (@FDA_Drug_Info) | Twitter).

This communication is consistent with 21 CFR 10.85(k) and constitutes an informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.

***************** My Reply**************

That was NOT the question. The question was... how can nicotine be NON addictive in GUM and products under patent by glaxosmithkline (under johnson&johnson-parent company) and yet "highly addictive" at the same time, where other uses are concerned.

Furthermore, the FDA has no more business regulating vaping products than it does in regulating coffee makers. Your regulatory limits need to be on the purity of product, disclosure of ingredients. Provided that the FDA has already deemed nicotine as being non-addictive, and thereby no more harmful that caffeine.

Furthermore.. has the FDA then deemed cigarettes "safe for public consumption"?

So is it really the safety of nicotine and the delivery method that is the determining factor in the addictiveness of nicotine, or is it the amount of money paid to the fda to deem one safe and sit on the other? Members of the FDA have already been caught with hands in the cookie jar..

Former FDA Commissioner Charged in RICO Lawsuit




Former FDA Commissioner Charged in RICO Lawsuit | AHRP

ahrp.org
A Federal Lawsuit charges Dr. Margaret Hamburg, former Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) with conspiracy, racketeering & colluding to conceal ...
and you are really asking me to believe your stringent regulatory body had nothing to do with this? These are the questions people are asking,
Members of the FDA are padding their pockets at the cost of LIVES. That is how I see it, and that is how John Q. Public is seeing it. Is the USA going to be last in line, a follower behind other countries? Coming in with brooms to clean up after the others have done all the fighting?



You really better find an answer to these questions, and stick to it. I am not the only one asking. Just one of many that bother to take the time to write.

End Quotes
This is a copy of question, answer, reply back to fda.
Just an example of keeping them honest (or trying to) Let them know how people see them and what kind of scrutiny they are currently under due to past infractions.
 
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jamesbeat

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I too experienced the 'something missing' issue when I first switched from smoking to vaping.
Luckily, I had already reduced my smoking as much as I could stand (14 cigarettes a day) so I managed to get through it.
I found that vaping until I felt slightly nauseous kept the craving at bay.

I have also noticed that, while I definitely have cravings if I can't vape, they are less intense than my cravings for cigarettes were.
 
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crxess

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I just spent the better part of an hour writing to gov.ca about Health Canada's claim that "nicotine in patches is not addictive" I demanded to know either the source of this magical nicotine and where I can get it and failing that.. whose pockets were being lined for them to make that claim.
Quit Smoking Aids - Smoking and Your Body - Tobacco - Health Canada

"heavy smokers may find that the biggest dosage is necessary for longer periods of time. A common error is to quit the patch sooner than recommended. Never cut a patch in half.

The nicotine from a patch does not cause cancer or nicotine addiction.

The most common side effects are skin irritation and sleep disturbance. If you get skin irritation you can switch brands, move the patch around on your skin, or"
(excerpt from HC page.)

I also sent a similar query to CBC News | Go Public asking the same questions.
("an investigative news segment that holds the powers that be accountable.")

Just figured some might find this interesting if not astounding!
I mean, we could say, according to Health Canada, nicotine is not addictive. I mean, seriously, it can't be both ways. (pretty sure we all know it IS addictive. lol)

Point is.. Ask those questions, stir up the rats nests. Never mind the "lets wait and see what happens" approach. If you in the US did that, you would still be flying The Union Jack (flag of Great Breton an UK.)

I for one, don't plan on giving Health Canada and the FDA here 93 years to "Legalize Vaping"
(MJ was declared illegal in 1923 here in Canada)..


Why is anyone Convinced Nicotine is addictive?
Nicotine IN Tobacco(a combination of elements) used over Extended periods causes a Dependency.
Nicotine Alone has proven relatively harmless.
Nicotine is used in many Secession Products without increasing need for nicotine.

Addiction generally leads to a More and More scenario, while even most smokers smokers limit consumption. Odd for an Addictive Drug........
It is Rare to Self Reduce an addiction, yet the majority of Vapers eventually reduce Nicotine levels
 

bwh79

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Why is anyone Convinced Nicotine is addictive?
Because the FDA changed the definition of the word "addiction" to include nicotine, much like how they changed the definition of "tobacco product" to include batteries.

You can redefine as many words as you want, but it still doesn't make things something they're not.
 

Zakillah

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It was the ritual of smoking that was missing. In other posts, where people had stated they were trying to get off cigarettes, I always recommend something with an adjustable airflow or ecig type.. something you have to sit and puff on like you would an actual cigarette.. especially after meals, with coffee, break time at work.. etc. 5 minutes of puffing and the feeling will pass.
I started mtl and 16 mg Nic. It wasn't the ritual I was missing. That's actually the strongest point of ecigs (why they work) and the ONLY argument the haters have ( it looks like smoking)
 
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