Official Spin: Nicotine is more addictive than ......

[THE]

Your co-worker's comment shows that she has bought into the concept that ALL addictions are BAD. If it was just the demonization of tobacco, then e-cigarettes wouldn't be of concern - they don't contain tobacco. It's also the demonization of the ACT of smoking, over the DANGER of smoking.

A few years ago, the anti-tobacco factions realized that they really couldn't "help" smokers. No matter what they did, they couldn't get the numbers of smokers down. So, instead they turned to demonizing the SMOKER. Making them pariahs - just as bad as h-eroin addicts. Not worthy of sympathy, only of scorn and isolation away from the rest of the population. No love lost for the smoker - they are just "addicts" and addicts are BAD.

The association of addiction being bad is relatively new, as well. Throughout most of modern history, addiction was simply seen as a passion, something a person couldn't live without. This addiction could be bad or good.

After the rise of h-eroin and other drugs in the late 20th century, the term "addiction" came to be associated with only the bad things associate with illegal drug use - prostitution, porn, robbery, murder, job loss, divorce, child neglect, etc.

"Addiction" no longer meant a passion, a need, a desire so strong that you can't live without it. It meant "burden on society" and "destructive behavior," regardless of the actual addiction. This is a relatively new concept.

There is no shame in being addicted to something - so long as it doesn't harm you or anyone else. Everyone has SOMETHING that makes them relax, reduces stress, makes them feel better, able to concentrate, etc. They are probably addicted to that thing, too. If you take it away, they would feel much of the same phycological withdrawl symptons described by drug addicts. But being a drug addict isn't always bad, either. Think about people on anti-depressants. Those drugs help them function and make them feel better (hopefully) and removing the drug would cause misery. Would anyone suggest taking those drugs away or making those people feel ashamed for their need? So, drugs aren't inherently bad - it's just the ATTITUDE about certain drugs.

Think about this, too - nicotine would probably be considered a miracle drug, if it hadn't first been associated with smoking and then demonized. Over 20% of the U.S. population (probably more if you include smokeless tobacco users) find the relief of nicotine so beneficial, that it overrides the fear of cancer and other smoking-related diseases!

As far as cutting down nicotine, that is another myth that anti-nicotine people want you to believe - that all smokers smoke for the same reason and they should be able to quit the same way.

There is a reason that 93% of smoking cessation products fail - they only address one aspect of smoking, mild nicotine dependence.

People smoke for many different reasons:

• They have a mild addiction to nicotine
• They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to function cognitively
• They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to reduce stress
• They have a strong dependence upon nicotine to counter depression
• They have the hand-to-mouth habit
• They need the "time out" to reduce stress or deliberate
• They need to keep their hands busy
• They need the oral satisfaction to avoid overeating
• They are dependent upon the other tobacco alkaloids or MAOIs
• Two or more of the above
• Other reasons we may not even know about yet

Smoking cessation products only target one kind of smoker - one who has a minor addiction to nictone and doesn't have a strong hand-to-mouth habit.

You obviously have more of the hand/mouth addiction and not the nicotine addiction - as do I. I also use vaping (as I did smoking) as a stress reliever and a way to help me concentrate. My husband, on the other hand, needs the nicotine and other MAOIs found in tobacco. He not only uses a higher strength nicotine, he needs to use snus for the other alkaloins/MAOIs.

So, you are correct in that everyone is different.

20% of the population find nicotine so beneficial they're willing to...? Pfffft. 90% of people who use it are just afraid or unable to stop. You're really going out on a limb to paint rainbows, here.

Smokers ARE a burden to society. We (they.. I'm a vaper, now) expect their health plans to take care of them after they destroy their bodies. Not okay.

Society knows it's paying for people with a dirty disgusting "habit" or "addiction" or whatever you want to call it. They believe that smokers are stupid because we (or now, THEY) ARE. We (they) KNOW how harmful and costly it is, most don't even WANT to do it, and yet we (they) don't have the balls to get away from it.

I don't understand how MAOIs work or what they do. But I know that they do keep some people smoking cigarettes. I don't know what to tell them. Keep smoking? I don't know if I could ever tell someone something like that. This tells me that in some EXTREMELY RARE CASES smoking might be more beneficial than harmful.

You do have a point about the misconceptions. Most people on the street actually think that the worst thing in cigarettes is the nicotine. It absolutely is not. Nicotine is one of the LEAST harmful things in cigarettes. My point is that it IS in most cases what people subject themselves to cigarette smoking to obtain doses of A-lot of normal people think the word "nicotine" includes all of the tar. Very common misconception out on the street.

 

[THE]

Cigarettes were my best friend. They were always buy my side and always faithful.
They were there to celebrate all my triumphs with me, al ways there to comfort me through my tragedies.
However it was a dysfunctional friendship, they hurt me just as much as the comforted me.

Now I have a new friend that is higher maintenance but less harmful. I made this choice because I need a friend to be by my side. My life, my choice, and apparently same choice that many others have made.

I felt the SAME WAY
My saying when times were bad was "they can't take my smokes!!!"

My Cigarette, My Friend, by Joel Spitzer

 

[THE]

i personally have had a life full of learning disabilities. i have had a difficult time remembering things and always struggle with "book work". i remember one of the times i tried to quit smoking, i literally COULD NOT think at work. first off all, all i could think about was having a cigarette. beyond that even, i could not concentrate. i have a feeling that nicotine in itself may actually do me some good helping me concentrate. one of the guys at work asked me when i was going to give up vaping. i think my response was why should i. im perfectly happy with vaping, my only problem is that i still have the occasional analog. although im not even smoking 1/4 of what i used to smoke, a huge improvement. now i just have to slowly get rid of analogs completely. i do enjoy vaping, but for some reason its just like something is still missing from it. i dont know what it is. well at least serous reduction of usage is a major step in the right direction

As a boy I had ADHD .. and I also have a touch of paranoid ************ .. I believe that most diagnosis are stupid nonsense .. I also believe that for me, nicotine aggravates it.

But you are not the first person I have heard say (here or on the streets) that nicotine helps them with it. So it very well could.

 

[THE]

Until someone tells me WHAT I SAID that they don't agree with, I have nothing more to say.

I told you what I don't agree with. Making nicotine look like a harmless little bunny. It has power and a-lot of it. Period. If that's debatable, SHOW ME. We've even had "real drug addicts" chime in here and say so. I've seen it all but force people I've loved to destroy their bodies because of the delivery device they used (cigarettes / chewing tobacco).

ONE MORE TIME. I agree that nicotine CAN BE beneficial and that it is relatively SAFE if not delivered using conventional methods.

 

[lmrasch]

Quote from THE:
"But challenging the very power of the addiction to it makes no sense whatever .. Millions. Tens of Millions. Hundreds of Millions? have gone through pure hell and ultimately death to maintain their comfortable dosage levels of nicotine. I don't see how anyone could challenge the addictiveness of it."

This thread in general is about how "nicotine addiction" is lumped in with all the dangers of the delivery system of cigarettes. Although I totally agree with your statement about possibly hundreds of millions going through pure hell to maintain their dose of nicotine, the reason they are so desperately trying to maintain nicotine is because of the delivery device itself, analogs (purposefully filled with a plethora of carcinogens to keep people addicted), thus the ANALOG ADDICTION is NOT a healthy choice. But electronic cigs, snus and orbs should NOT be lumped in with the destructive addiction to the former.
Nicotine in and of itself does have great benefits for many people, can it cause harm to some, yes it can. But so can caffeine, although helpful to many people for focus, energy and the like, it is poison to others. My sis is a schizophrenic, when she has caffeine it takes literally weeks to balance out her mental status to where she can function again; meanwhile...it's the state mental ward for her...Seriously! Now, cigarettes are a different story for her, she functions much better with nicotine than without, but the cigarettes are killing her. She was diagnosed with a rare type of pulmonary fibrosis, the Mayo Clinic could not even specify the exact type, and there is no name for it. Thankfully it is in remission right now.
I agree with Kristin, the stigma of addiction + nicotine = damnable bunch of weak people, this mentality must be overcome, especially among our own group.
Otherwise we need to start a campaign to ban potatoes, tomatoes, cauliflower and eggplant, cause there’s nicotine in these as well and I know plenty of people who are addicted to them, lol!
Btw....hope this makes sense to those in the Mensa group....sadly I’m not as blessed...

EDIT: Took me a bit to finish writing, too many distractions and by the time I posted my response, there were quite a few more replies....looks like what I had to say was pretty much covered, lol!

 

[THE]

Quote from THE:
"But challenging the very power of the addiction to it makes no sense whatever .. Millions. Tens of Millions. Hundreds of Millions? have gone through pure hell and ultimately death to maintain their comfortable dosage levels of nicotine. I don't see how anyone could challenge the addictiveness of it."

This thread in general is about how "nicotine addiction" is lumped in with all the dangers of the delivery system of cigarettes. Although I totally agree with your statement about possibly hundreds of millions going through pure hell to maintain their dose of nicotine, the reason they are so desperately trying to maintain nicotine is because of the delivery device itself, analogs (purposefully filled with a plethora of carcinogens to keep people addicted), thus the ANALOG ADDICTION is NOT a healthy choice. But electronic cigs, snus and orbs should NOT be lumped in with the destructive addiction to the former.
Nicotine in and of itself does have great benefits for many people, can it cause harm to some, yes it can. But so can caffeine, although helpful to many people for focus, energy and the like, it is poison to others. My sis is a schizophrenic, when she has caffeine it takes literally weeks to balance out her mental status to where she can function again; meanwhile...it's the state mental ward for her...Seriously! Now, cigarettes are a different story for her, she functions much better with nicotine than without, but the cigarettes are killing her. She was diagnosed with a rare type of pulmonary fibrosis, the Mayo Clinic could not even specify the exact type, and there is no name for it. Thankfully it is in remission right now.
I agree with Kristin, the stigma of addiction + nicotine = damnable bunch of weak people, this mentality must be overcome, especially among our own group.
Otherwise we need to start a campaign to ban potatoes, tomatoes, cauliflower and eggplant, cause there’s nicotine in these as well and I know plenty of people who are addicted to them, lol!
Btw....hope this makes sense to those in the Mensa group....sadly I’m not as blessed...

EDIT: Took me a bit to finish writing, too many distractions and by the time I posted my response, there were quite a few more replies....looks like what I had to say was pretty much covered, lol!

Same thing here. Phone keeps ringing. Idiots need this, they need that and can I do this.

You're right. I'd MUCH rather see people using nicotine INSTEAD OF DOCTORS WITCHES BREW.

The original poster is right: The government and normal people themselves want to demonize nicotine because they profit in all directions and the people don't understand the difference between nicotine and cigarettes.

All of their witchy potions they push through their "prescribers" treat people because it's "WHAT THEY NEED". To hell with logic or truth.. We sell it it's "WHAT YOU NEED"... They even make money from their 95% failure rate patches, gums and chews.

HOW MANY PEOPLE GO IN FOR A BRAIN SCAN AND PROPER ANALYSIS BEFORE BEING SUBJECTED TO A RANDOM ANTI DEPRESSANT??? EVERY DAY _BODY DOCTORS_ HAVE _NO BUSINESS_ PLAYING WITH BRAIN CHEMISTRY ALTERING DRUGS. NONE. PEOPLE DIE OF IT.

They want to make you want to not use nicotine and then PROFIT from you TRYING (and not being successful in) "quitting". Then their literature tells you garbage like "a slip is okay" knowing a "slip" can and will put you RIGHT BACK to full use even after many years.

I just don't see how myself and the original poster or anyone else who's posted are supposedly not in agreeance.

 

[lmrasch]

Quote from THE:

Same thing here. Phone keeps ringing. Idiots need this, they need that and can I do this.

You're right. I'd MUCH rather see people using nicotine INSTEAD OF DOCTORS WITCHES BREW.

The original poster is right: The government and normal people themselves want to demonize nicotine because they profit in all directions and the people don't understand the difference between nicotine and cigarettes.

All of their witchy potions they push through their "prescribers" treat people because it's "WHAT THEY NEED". To hell with logic or truth.. We sell it it's "WHAT YOU NEED"... They even make money from their 95% failure rate patches, gums and chews.

HOW MANY PEOPLE GO IN FOR A BRAIN SCAN AND PROPER ANALYSIS BEFORE BEING SUBJECTED TO A RANDOM ANTI DEPRESSANT??? EVERY DAY _BODY DOCTORS_ HAVE _NO BUSINESS_ PLAYING WITH BRAIN CHEMISTRY ALTERING DRUGS. NONE. PEOPLE DIE OF IT.

They want to make you want to not use nicotine and then PROFIT from you TRYING (and not being successful in) "quitting". Then their literature tells you garbage like "a slip is okay" knowing a "slip" can and will put you RIGHT BACK to full use even after many years. [End Quote]

I am sure on the same page with you there...ai yi yi! Don't get me started, lol! Witches brew is correct! I know young adults who when they were school aged were FORCED by the SCHOOLS to take medication for ADHD or they could not attend. If they did not attend their parents were not compliant and would have to home school them. Many of the mothers were single and had to work to make ends meet, thus they couldn't home school them....so they were forced to take drugs. I have witnessed first hand what those drugs did to those children. Many of them now have a drug habit of another kind, and we're not talking nicotine. I was blessed enough to be able to be a stay at home mom and home school my son who had ADHD, so no drugs for him. He turned out to be a fine young man....who smokes, it helps him function. Thankfully, he is on the road to the electronic cigarette and I'm jumping for joy!

[Quote from THE]I just don't see how myself and the original poster or anyone else who's posted are supposedly not in agreeance[End Quote]
Unfortunately, the written word can be misconstrued at times...and delivery of responses, misunderstood...Other times, we are just so passionate about an issue, it's best to wait out the frustration before one posts, lol!

 

[kristin]

As an aside.. Look... I don't even usually talk with people who say ummm and dude .. You and that guy seem like you're VERY intelligent people. That kind of talk isn't necessary. Imagine someone completely confused about the issue getting on here to learn something. If they see UMMM and DUDE they're going to discount you. I know you're bright and intelligent because I've seen you post before. What if someone else doesn't?

I don't mean to offend you, but if you want your points to be well taken, drop that kind of talk.. Just like me, I know I say MAN too much. I'm working on that, myself.

I should have put a with that "ummm" - it was meant to be read as being said with humor, since you were admitting you hadn't even read the thread. I found that comment humorous.

I normally don't post like that (note that "kind of talk" isn't in my on-topic posts) and anyone who knows me would have caught that. But your point is taken.

As an aside, it's a bit discourteous to comment on a thread without even reading the original post or a few of the replies. It's better to wait (IMO) and post after you're caught up, because otherwise your comments seem to come out of left field. It's hard to take someone's post seriously when that person admits he/she isn't even sure of the actual topic.

I really appreciate that you did come back and actually catch up with us and made additional comments. Too many people do a "hit & run" post and never come back!

Back on topic - I hope you don't mean I ever suggested that nicotine addiction is all puppies and rainbows. My issue is with it actually being portrayed in ways as to dehumanize nicotine users to the point that they are looked down upon and ostracized. Unfairly comparing nicotine addicts to crack addicts (the criminal kind) is disingenuous and misleading.

Do the same thing with another issue - obesity. A 5'5" person weighing 400 lbs being considered "fat" vs. a 5'5" actress at a "normal" weight of 120lbs being considered "fat" by the media. It's ridiculous to even compare the two.

It's pointless to even compare nicotine to crack in ANY way, unless you are trying to paint a certain picture about nicotine users.

 

[kristin]

20% of the population find nicotine so beneficial they're willing to...? Pfffft. 90% of people who use it are just afraid or unable to stop. You're really going out on a limb to paint rainbows, here.

Smokers ARE a burden to society. We (they.. I'm a vaper, now) expect their health plans to take care of them after they destroy their bodies. Not okay.

Society knows it's paying for people with a dirty disgusting "habit" or "addiction" or whatever you want to call it. They believe that smokers are stupid because we (or now, THEY) ARE. We (they) KNOW how harmful and costly it is, most don't even WANT to do it, and yet we (they) don't have the balls to get away from it.

I don't understand how MAOIs work or what they do. But I know that they do keep some people smoking cigarettes. I don't know what to tell them. Keep smoking? I don't know if I could ever tell someone something like that. This tells me that in some EXTREMELY RARE CASES smoking might be more beneficial than harmful.

Speak for yourself. I never expected to have to be taken care of and if I did, it would be from a health plan that I PAID FOR.

You seem hell bent on reinforcing the anti message that smokers are stupid and dirty and don't deserve a place in society. A burden on society? No more than stupid drivers and people who can't put down the Ben & Jerry's. Yet smokers are vilified more than any of them - even though a few studies have run the numbers and shown that smokers dying younger actually are LESS of a financial burden on society. Smoking can cause cancer, but most cancers that people are dying from AREN'T caused by smoking.

So, you explain why 20% of then population continues to smoke, even knowing the dangers. It's just that their stupid? and weak? I don't think so. There's something they get from it that overrides the risk.

Obviously, smokers can't be that stupid - they spend BILLIONS on NRTs and other smoking cessation products and therapies. And hundreds of thousands are switching to vaping - the one thing that gives them what they got from smoking that those other things didn't.

But smokers HAVE been duped. The anti-tobacco groups have hidden the facts about smokeless alternatives from them. Convinced them that, even though they know they should quit, smokeless tobacco is just as bad and not a "safe" alternative. A classic deflection - not telling them that "not safe" means that they could still reduce their risks by 98-99%. They say smokeless tobacco "causes mouth cancer" but don't tell them that smoking has double the risk of mouth cancer and the risk of smokeless is so low that it's hardly significant - 1-2%.

It's sad for me to see vapers parroting the anti mantras and one reason I started this thread.

 

[LowThudd]

lol Ben and Jerrys- This is interesting: Junkfood Science: No fat people allowed: Only the slim will be allowed to dine in public!

 

[D103]

I have worked in the addictions field for the past twenty-seven years and it has been my experience that whenever you read about a "famous" person quoted as saying "...nicotine is more addictive than .........." two things are at play: #1 they are quoted because they are "famous" so it's somehow "newsworthy?" and # 2 It is usually a case of nicotine use being a 'latter' substance they have attempted to quit or amend -i.e. they have typically been addicted to other illicit drugs and/or alcohol and have quit those substances sometime earlier and more recently have tried or are trying to quit smoking. The old adage is certainly true "..pain pales over time.." so their memory of how difficult it was to quit illicit drug(s) and/or alcohol is not totally accurate nor reliable and by virtue of elimination they are quitting nicotine with less other "coping mechanisms" available than when they quit the former(and were still able to smoke).
And as Kristin so ably has pointed out whenever a "supposed" health agency, health practioner or "smoking expert" makes the statement that nicotine is more addictive than ...... this is pure fearmongering and manipulation with an agenda other than your health and/or public welfare.

 

[kristin]

Thanks, D103 - I didn't think I was crazy, LOL!

 

[kristin]

OMG! I think I just came up with the best comeback line ever!

Someone was preaching on the MSNBC article about "just quit smoking" and this was my reply:

I have quit smoking. E-cigarettes aren't smoking.

And so help me god, if you use that pointless line, "But you're still addicted," I'll scream.

So what if I'm addicted? If it's not hurting me and not hurting anyone else and it makes me happy, where is the bad in that? Not all addictions are bad. What do people think "love" is?

 

[THE]

I should have put a with that "ummm" - it was meant to be read as being said with humor, since you were admitting you hadn't even read the thread. I found that comment humorous.

I normally don't post like that (note that "kind of talk" isn't in my on-topic posts) and anyone who knows me would have caught that. But your point is taken.

As an aside, it's a bit discourteous to comment on a thread without even reading the original post or a few of the replies. It's better to wait (IMO) and post after you're caught up, because otherwise your comments seem to come out of left field. It's hard to take someone's post seriously when that person admits he/she isn't even sure of the actual topic.

I really appreciate that you did come back and actually catch up with us and made additional comments. Too many people do a "hit & run" post and never come back!

Back on topic - I hope you don't mean I ever suggested that nicotine addiction is all puppies and rainbows. My issue is with it actually being portrayed in ways as to dehumanize nicotine users to the point that they are looked down upon and ostracized. Unfairly comparing nicotine addicts to crack addicts (the criminal kind) is disingenuous and misleading.

Do the same thing with another issue - obesity. A 5'5" person weighing 400 lbs being considered "fat" vs. a 5'5" actress at a "normal" weight of 120lbs being considered "fat" by the media. It's ridiculous to even compare the two.

It's pointless to even compare nicotine to crack in ANY way, unless you are trying to paint a certain picture about nicotine users.

Exactly. I KNOW you're not that type who says "ummm" and "like" all of the time. But someone else might not. I think a-lot of you, personally.

I can't fault you for laughing at me not having read the thread. I did at least skim it and have read it now, in full. It contains what I thought it would, give or take a bit.

I don't agree that it's so very ridiculous comparing street drugs with nicotine.. I think there's a considerable contrast, but the cigarette smoking does end people. Just all of a sudden, abruptly. They don't usually fall over dead without warning (many do) but they FIND OUT that ONE DAY that they're ended. That's where my functioning alcoholic comparison comes from, I suppose.

 

[THE]

Speak for yourself. I never expected to have to be taken care of and if I did, it would be from a health plan that I PAID FOR.

You seem hell bent on reinforcing the anti message that smokers are stupid and dirty and don't deserve a place in society. A burden on society? No more than stupid drivers and people who can't put down the Ben & Jerry's. Yet smokers are vilified more than any of them - even though a few studies have run the numbers and shown that smokers dying younger actually are LESS of a financial burden on society. Smoking can cause cancer, but most cancers that people are dying from AREN'T caused by smoking.

So, you explain why 20% of then population continues to smoke, even knowing the dangers. It's just that their stupid? and weak? I don't think so. There's something they get from it that overrides the risk.

Obviously, smokers can't be that stupid - they spend BILLIONS on NRTs and other smoking cessation products and therapies. And hundreds of thousands are switching to vaping - the one thing that gives them what they got from smoking that those other things didn't.

But smokers HAVE been duped. The anti-tobacco groups have hidden the facts about smokeless alternatives from them. Convinced them that, even though they know they should quit, smokeless tobacco is just as bad and not a "safe" alternative. A classic deflection - not telling them that "not safe" means that they could still reduce their risks by 98-99%. They say smokeless tobacco "causes mouth cancer" but don't tell them that smoking has double the risk of mouth cancer and the risk of smokeless is so low that it's hardly significant - 1-2%.

It's sad for me to see vapers parroting the anti mantras and one reason I started this thread.

I am not speaking for myself. I'm speaking for the masses out there. A HUGE percentage of smokers are waiting for their health plan or medicare or (name something) to take care of them after they destroy themselves. I never expected that. Still don't. The masses do. They affect the prices we ALL pay for health care. Just because it is a plan you pay for doesn't mean that you're not going to raise the cost for everyone every time you need 100s of 1000s in care. (My father has had well well over 2M in care in his life. Use to pay $1500/mo for his "plan".)

Explain why 20% of the population smokes.. You say... oh it can't just be that they're addicted.... It can and it is in a vast majority of smokers. Go watch people smoke some time. Are they smiling? Do they look refreshed? Happy? I've noted smokers when I've gone out probably thousands of times, now. And they don't show any of those things. Unless they're drunk.

Never try to argue anything based on "people CAN'T be THAT STUPID". Yes, they can. And they are. The power of stupid people in numbers is a horrifying thing to behold. I think most people these days are just ignorant. To me that means they ignore facts in favor of the easy way.

How do you think this country became everything it was started to break free from? Let's not allow THAT debate to hijack your thread, but, goodness... People really are ignorant these days.

I know that Phillip Morris once argued (and took a HUGE PR hit) that dying smokers freed up so much health care money.. And I personally know that if 450k people stop dying every year, we're screwed... You do have a point I can't argue with, though. At first I thought, wow, dirty pool ... but you're most probably right about this. Dying smokers don't need any more health care.

Lastly ..
I'm not hell bent on demonizing anything or anyone but the government who cares less for us than a farmer does for his livestock... I like truth. When you make a point and show me I'm wrong, I'll gladly yield to you as I have in the above paragraph. I'm not parroting anything. I'm talking about facts I know from experience..

 

[THE]

I have worked in the addictions field for the past twenty-seven years and it has been my experience that whenever you read about a "famous" person quoted as saying "...nicotine is more addictive than .........." two things are at play: #1 they are quoted because they are "famous" so it's somehow "newsworthy?" and # 2 It is usually a case of nicotine use being a 'latter' substance they have attempted to quit or amend -i.e. they have typically been addicted to other illicit drugs and/or alcohol and have quit those substances sometime earlier and more recently have tried or are trying to quit smoking. The old adage is certainly true "..pain pales over time.." so their memory of how difficult it was to quit illicit drug(s) and/or alcohol is not totally accurate nor reliable and by virtue of elimination they are quitting nicotine with less other "coping mechanisms" available than when they quit the former(and were still able to smoke).
And as Kristin so ably has pointed out whenever a "supposed" health agency, health practioner or "smoking expert" makes the statement that nicotine is more addictive than ...... this is pure fearmongering and manipulation with an agenda other than your health and/or public welfare.

Yes. You have to love how people consider celebs to be human, know who they all are, and eat up anything they say. I don't know who most of them are. The beauty of scaring everyone away from your own product is that you can then sell them products to get them off of your products (at a premium) which will never work anyway.

As far as people knowing what was most difficult for them to quit.. I believe that they do.

If some drugs cause them to not remember some of the difficulty, I realize that could be a problem and help a relapse to occur.

With nicotine, people remember the withdrawl and how tough it was. The thing is that people don't realize how easily the addiction "wakes up". A couple drags or one cigarette can and does bring people who've been quit for 10s of years right back into it.

Use paragraphs, please... my eyes hurt!!

 

[kristin]

THE, I'm not saying they aren't addicted, but the addiction is benefitting them somehow or they'd quit. The fact that thousands of people quit with ease every year means that it's not really that addictive for them and they were receiving little benefit from continuing to use it. So only those who have a need for it find it "addicting."

And we know that nicotine isn't the only thing in cigarettes that is addictive. For many people on ECF, they easily switch to non-nicotine carts. So, the strongest addiction wasn't the nicotine. For others, just the nicotine in e-cigs isn't enough, so it was something else in the tobacco that they needed.

I don't understand why it's ok to need one kind of drug to function (caffeine, anti-depressants) yet nicotine is viewed as purely an addiction and not a "need." Why the double standard?

People seem to view nicotine use/vaping purely as an chemical addiction - that there is no possibility that it may actually be helping people in some way. If that were true, people would be able to completely shake the addiction after time and return to normal functioning without it. But for many people like Vocalek, that is not the case - she never recovers from nicotine abstinence. There's a reason why most ex-smokers resume in times of stress, as well. And the fact that it's so easy to start again after 10 years could actually support my position on this, as well.

The leader of the most powerful country in the free world is a smoker and as much as one may disagree with his politics, I doubt anyone would catagorize him as "stupid."

And I don't think of myself as "stupid" either. Just ignorant of the alternatives available to me at the time (thanks to our friendly public health groups) and without an option like e-cigarettes to turn to.

 

[THE]

THE, I'm not saying they aren't addicted, but the addiction is benefitting them somehow or they'd quit. The fact that thousands of people quit with ease every year means that it's not really that addictive for them and they were receiving little benefit from continuing to use it. So only those who have a need for it find it "addicting."

And we know that nicotine isn't the only thing in cigarettes that is addictive. For many people on ECF, they easily switch to non-nicotine carts. So, the strongest addiction wasn't the nicotine. For others, just the nicotine in e-cigs isn't enough, so it was something else in the tobacco that they needed.

I don't understand why it's ok to need one kind of drug to function (caffeine, anti-depressants) yet nicotine is viewed as purely an addiction and not a "need." Why the double standard?

People seem to view nicotine use/vaping purely as an chemical addiction - that there is no possibility that it may actually be helping people in some way. If that were true, people would be able to completely shake the addiction after time and return to normal functioning without it. But for many people like Vocalek, that is not the case - she never recovers from nicotine abstinence. There's a reason why most ex-smokers resume in times of stress, as well. And the fact that it's so easy to start again after 10 years could actually support my position on this, as well.

The leader of the most powerful country in the free world is a smoker and as much as one may disagree with his politics, I doubt anyone would catagorize him as "stupid."

And I don't think of myself as "stupid" either. Just ignorant of the alternatives available to me at the time (thanks to our friendly public health groups) and without an option like e-cigarettes to turn to.

While I agree that a percentage of cigarette smokers are addicted to and even benefiting from "something" in cigarettes besides the nicotine.. I don't think that any of them are getting enough from it to justify cigarette smoking. We do realize that cigarette smokers stay in perpetual withdrawl, don't we? Unless they chain smoke, they are. Nicotine withdrawl comes fast and hard. 999 times of 1000 that's the reason a cigarette makes someone "feel good" or "feel better" ... It gets them out of its own withdrawl symptoms. It's a vicious cycle. Smokers are living their lives on the hamster wheel and most never have any idea.

How common is it that someone "never recovers from nicotine abstinence"? Someone on here who admittedly destroyed parts of his own brain with street drugs? One other person on here? Everyone I know who has ever quit cigarette use is happy and healthy. Can't imagine one of them saying, oh my god life is so much worse now. But admittedly, I'm combining the issues. They were cigarette users.

I think I know why ex smokers might relapse in times of stress. As smokers, they were use to stressful situations causing their bodies to eliminate nicotine at an accelerated rate. Then they would have that stressful situation PLUS fast onset of strong nicotine withdrawl. That cigarette they smoked at that time felt SO GOOD because it took them out of withdrawl they've learned to believe that they "need" a cigarette for stress.

A big part of the debate is still in the air, far as I'm concerned. We haven't seen enough yet of what happens now that we can separate our use in a way that also covers the actual simple behavioral habit aspect of it.

The leader of the "most powerful country" is a smoker... I don't know where a guy named "Obama Hussein" came from... but I know he's muslim, has a white mother from Kansas of all places, and looks at the average citizen as an expendable brain dead idiot. As for us remaining as the most powerful country .... it'll take an outright miracle .. China is powerful. They produce. Whatever the world asks for. They make it. If Russia ever decides to come for us, we're done within one year. They are the most powerful country in my opinion. What have we got left? Our dollar? It's nothing left but a shell game.. There are still a-lot of good old fashioned die hard Americans left and we MAY win the country back - but it's going to take a miracle - we've done it before when they had us ten to one, even.. Who knows. Again, let's not hijack your thread with this kind of debate


Thousands of people quit every year means it's not that addictive? Then you leap over to, only those who have need of it continue to use it .. That speaks for itself. I mean, come on. 90 of 100 smokers want to quit. They say they like the taste, or it calms them down, etc etc etc ... all nonsense ... they just can't quit. Maybe you're right, maybe it's not because of nicotine as often as we thought ..... time will tell.

For me, I feel ZERO withdrawl when I'm vaping nicotine in. If I don't vape I feel the exact same withdrawl I would when I was a smoker and didn't smoke, before. It's the same way for every e-smoker I know personally. I'm seeing that it is not that way for EVERYONE. I don't know if people are imagining things, if it's true, I'll form an opinion as time moves forward. I'm open to anything that is true.

I agree about anti-depressants and caffeine. Someone told me that 95% of the world population uses caffeine on a daily basis. I don't think it is a good thing.

I've cut my own caffeine by 85% or more in the past couple of years. I don't sleep for 12+ hours at a time or get tired suddenly and unpredictably. I don't have the temper I use to.

It boggles the mind to think how many people here in the states are on dart board anti depressants.

Like I said before, body doctors don't even evaluate the brain or have any idea of how to do so before they guess which anti-depressant to push. They've no business prescribing something like that. As I also had said, people DIE because of it.

 

[shanagan]

It seems to me this has strayed a little from a main, salient point: Nicotine users don't have to be smokers anymore. So let's advocate for awareness of that fact. Whether or not smoking is a drain on society isn't the point - the point is that there is a way to effectively ingest a substance that does have what many of us consider a pleasurable or even beneficial effect, with little or no proven negative side effects.

To me anyway, this whole discussion is about getting past demonizing nicotine and its users, not about smokers.

An aside in regards to the whole "nicotine is harder to quit than _____" debate - I think in many cases people hold that line close to their hearts because they Don't Want To Quit. But smoking (to go back to that) has been demonized to an extent that we - most of us as past smokers - had to hold onto that little line as a way of saying "see, it's HARD to quit, that's why I haven't."

 

[kristin]

Good points, Shanagan.

And not only that, the continued demonization of nicotine use/users - even absent the smoke - affects how society treats us a vapers. I guess that was my whole point all along.

So, I'm not saying "be proud of being a nicotine user," but just don't feel shame and buy into the myths and misconceptions and blindly repeat the anti mantras - the future of vaping is on the line and your attitude as a vaper and smokeless nicotine users makes a difference.