Official Spin: Nicotine is more addictive than ......

[vailgal]

Kristen,

That was a great post and had a lot of information that most people don't think about. You have to love the way the media and politics are able to twist and turn things to make things look worse than they actually are. As mentioned in other post it may be addicting but people choose to use nicotine and do not want to stop, whether they can or not they just don't want to. There are many people who have food addictions and it is the same thing, they know they have an eating problem but they do not want to give it up because for many people it is a comfort. But oddly enough, nicotine is likened to those items which are deemed illegal in order to get people to kick the habit. Maybe I have no paid good enough attention to the news but I do not ever recall of anyone dying from a nicotine overdose.

Just saying....

 

[firhill]

The sad thing is this... most of the doctors I have seen in the 30 odd years since my overdose have quietly said off the record "If smoking is solving all these problems- keep doing it". But no one ever says it publicly. It needs to be said publicly. So I'm saying it publicly- and someone here on the board is gonna just call me some crazy old gas bag who doesn't have a right to his opinion. Have at it.

Nah..you're entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Here's mine...

See a doctor ...not a quack.

 

[LowThudd]

Unfortunately, often former illicet drug users DO say this. In fact, Ozzy Osborn has said on many occasions that quitting cigarettes was more difficult than any other drug he has used. And I am pretty sure he has used and been addicted to them ALL. Not that much of a strech, I've heard it many times from former users.

 

[kristin]

Unfortunately, often former illicet drug users DO say this. In fact, Ozzy Osborn has said on many occasions that quitting cigarettes was more difficult than any other drug he has used. And I am pretty sure he has used and been addicted to them ALL. Not that much of a strech, I've heard it many times from former users.

Sure, people have said it, but no one has bothered at ask, "Why?"

And even if it is more addictive in some ways, does that really make it just as harmful as those other drugs - absent the smoke?

Again, just because something is addictive, that doesn't automativally make it harmful.

 

[LowThudd]

Sure, people have said it, but no one has bothered at ask, "Why?"

And even if it is more addictive in some ways, does that really make it just as harmful as those other drugs - absent the smoke?

Again, just because something is addictive, that doesn't automativally make it harmful.

Never said it was just as bad, just pointing out the facts. Technically eating bacon and butter everyday is less healthy that even cigs, and people are addicted to that. There has been studies that show that certain individuals do infact have an addiction to certain foods. I generally look to the JAMA website for harm/ no harm info on anything drug related. Pretty good info there.

 

[kristin]

Never said it was just as bad, just pointing out the facts. Technically eating bacon and butter everyday is less healthy that even cigs, and people are addicted to that. There has been studies that show that certain individuals do infact have an addiction to certain foods. I generally look to the JAMA website for harm/ no harm info on anything drug related. Pretty good info there.

I wasn't saying YOU thought that, only that it's what the antis are trying to convince people by comparing nicotine to these other drugs. People hear, "More addictive than h-eroin" and believe that means, "Nicotine is WORSE than h-eroin."

See what I'm trying to say? It's a tactic, just like the FDA saying "E-cigarettes contain anti-freeze and carcinogens" instead of "We found a small amount of diethylene glycol in one cartridge and trace amounts of nitrosamines, but none of the other bad stuff found in cigarettes."

It's a classic spin to get a reaction.

 

[LowThudd]

I wasn't saying YOU thought that, only that it's what the antis are trying to convince people by comparing nicotine to these other drugs. People hear, "More addictive than h-eroin" and believe that means, "Nicotine is WORSE than h-eroin."

See what I'm trying to say? It's a tactic, just like the FDA saying "E-cigarettes contain anti-freeze and carcinogens" instead of "We found a small amount of diethylene glycol in one cartridge and trace amounts of nitrosamines, but none of the other bad stuff found in cigarettes."

It's a classic spin to get a reaction.

It is a tactic. And it is nothing new, been done before to an "herbal" smokeable. Reagan said that was worse than 'H' also, Nixon said the same thing. But that is a very misunderstood alternative to alcohol consumption compared to nicotine. Nobody has ever heard of someone holding up a bank, or car jacking or even just selling everything they own from nicotine. Not that 'Herbal' alternatives have ever sent som eone to do any of those things. So I don't think it is all that serious, as most people will never believe that 'H' is better for you than nicotine. Even non-smokers have enough experience w/ smokers to dispell that myth.

 

[kj4lxw]

Cigarettes were my best friend. They were always buy my side and always faithful.
They were there to celebrate all my triumphs with me, al ways there to comfort me through my tragedies.
However it was a dysfunctional friendship, they hurt me just as much as the comforted me.

Now I have a new friend that is higher maintenance but less harmful. I made this choice because I need a friend to be by my side. My life, my choice, and apparently same choice that many others have made.

 

[ad356]

i personally have had a life full of learning disabilities. i have had a difficult time remembering things and always struggle with "book work". i remember one of the times i tried to quit smoking, i literally COULD NOT think at work. first off all, all i could think about was having a cigarette. beyond that even, i could not concentrate. i have a feeling that nicotine in itself may actually do me some good helping me concentrate. one of the guys at work asked me when i was going to give up vaping. i think my response was why should i. im perfectly happy with vaping, my only problem is that i still have the occasional analog. although im not even smoking 1/4 of what i used to smoke, a huge improvement. now i just have to slowly get rid of analogs completely. i do enjoy vaping, but for some reason its just like something is still missing from it. i dont know what it is. well at least serous reduction of usage is a major step in the right direction

 

[THE]

I swear I'm going to get to this thread ... SO BUSY lately .. managed to cure my ECF addiction but now I'm so busy

 

[kj4lxw]

I'm actually prining this thread out as I want to be able to refer to alot of the posts Kristin and others have made.
Great insights, I appreciate when someone can make me stop and think.

 

[DC2]

i personally have had a life full of learning disabilities. i have had a difficult time remembering things and always struggle with "book work". i remember one of the times i tried to quit smoking, i literally COULD NOT think at work. first off all, all i could think about was having a cigarette. beyond that even, i could not concentrate. i have a feeling that nicotine in itself may actually do me some good helping me concentrate. one of the guys at work asked me when i was going to give up vaping. i think my response was why should i. im perfectly happy with vaping, my only problem is that i still have the occasional analog. although im not even smoking 1/4 of what i used to smoke, a huge improvement. now i just have to slowly get rid of analogs completely. i do enjoy vaping, but for some reason its just like something is still missing from it. i dont know what it is. well at least serous reduction of usage is a major step in the right direction

There are many things in cigarettes that you are not getting in vapor.
The main thing you may be missing and needing is the MAOIs.

Check out the smokeless tobacco subforum here...
Smokeless tobacco - E-Cigarette Forum

There are many people that need more than just vaping to get off the cigarettes.
You might be one of those people.

 

[kristin]

AD, about 25% of e-cig users have that same "something missing" in e-cigs. My husband was one of them. It took him almost 5 months longer than me to quit smoking.

The missing ingredient was, for him, the other tobacco alkaloids/MAOIs found in actual tobacco. In order to combat that, he started supplimenting his e-cig with snus and - BAM! - no more "something is missing."

I suspect you are one of the 25%, so I suggest you try a smokeless tobacco.

Snus is NOT chew. It is a fine powdered tobacco in a tiny filter pouch - like a tea bag. The snus is tucked in your lip or cheek and there is no spitting involved and no tobacco leaves stuck in your teeth. And the health risks are the same as with e-cigarettes - about 1-2% risk.

If this still does not appeal to you, try the Orbs lozenges or strips. They are nearly identical to the Nicorette versions, except they contain the key tobacco ingredients (alkaloids/MAOIs) missing from the pharmaceutical products, because they still contain tobacco. They are also much cheaper than the Nicorette gums or lozenges and even cheaper than cigarettes in some places.

It can't hurt, right?

i personally have had a life full of learning disabilities. i have had a difficult time remembering things and always struggle with "book work". i remember one of the times i tried to quit smoking, i literally COULD NOT think at work. first off all, all i could think about was having a cigarette. beyond that even, i could not concentrate. i have a feeling that nicotine in itself may actually do me some good helping me concentrate. one of the guys at work asked me when i was going to give up vaping. i think my response was why should i. im perfectly happy with vaping, my only problem is that i still have the occasional analog. although im not even smoking 1/4 of what i used to smoke, a huge improvement. now i just have to slowly get rid of analogs completely. i do enjoy vaping, but for some reason its just like something is still missing from it. i dont know what it is. well at least serous reduction of usage is a major step in the right direction

 

[kristin]

Oops! DC beat me to it!

There are many things in cigarettes that you are not getting in vapor.
The main thing you may be missing and needing is the MAOIs.

Check out the smokeless tobacco subforum here...
Smokeless tobacco - E-Cigarette Forum

There are many people that need more than just vaping to get off the cigarettes.
You might be one of those people.

 

[DC2]

Oops! DC beat me to it!

Yeah, but you did a better job of it.

 

[kj4lxw]

I have never heard of the Orbs before and did a quick Google on it.
All I got was reults for warnings about the dangers of Orbs to children. Go figure.

 

[THE]

This entire post, while an opinion you have a right to, is so full of ignorance and sad presupposition that responding in full would only confuse you.

There are times, dude, when silence is golden. This was one of them.

Alright, "dude", I dare you to show me what part of YOUR POST I disagreed with... I don't see ONE POINT you and me don't agree on.... Dude.

You sound like your mind works a-lot like mine. Only I never made 180. Was in the one sixties and knocked some off with a-lot of alcohol. We're probably on the same level thereabouts, now. You probably having me on knowledge.

But, for you to say my post was full of ignorance and pre-supposition is just nonsense.

Challenge one point I made, or show me one thing we didn't agree on.

 

[THE]

THE, I didn't quite know how to respond to your post, had to think about it. I was a little miffed for awhile.
But you meant what you said. Having a bad day maybe.
I'm a recovered smoker. Over a year and a half ago I knew it was time I had to quit or die. All I could do as far as functioning was sit, drink coffee, and have one cigarette after another. I did only what I had to do. If I had to go out I would, but in a world where smoking was something everyone did into a new world where no one does, it is a little off-putting.
We all got it.
We've probably all tried very hard in numerous ways to find help, but there really isn't anything helpful outside of ourselves. So we keep hacking our lungs out, choking on every puff and just keep on.
Still a huge undertaking to deprive yourself of something you really love to do. Another part of addiction is the act of it. Very difficult to put aside without really falling apart.
You can look at examples all day long about things that people did to themselves by smoking. But that's the defeatist way to go about it. Sooner or later you have to get past that, and see what is possible. Awful things happen to people that have never smoked, as well.
You don't normally post things so grossly negative. If you had read at least some of the posts you would sort of owe people a "sorry", because it is kind of insulting, in view of where you are posting..on ECF...but we all have to suck it in sometimes and just chill. Sometimes we need to reach out a bit, when someone goes off the deep side of the pool. I'm not really sure where you're at here.
But on day one after my e-cig came, I knew it was the thing I could do. I did know about nicotine. What I didn't know was that you could keep it, and quit the smoke, which is the killing thing, after all. Not the nicotine. Now I sleep like a baby, I can smell and taste food again. I can laugh without coughing. And I can work like a trooper. With more energy than I ever thought I'd have again. I use 2mls or less juice a day, 12mg/ml. I absorb the eqivalent of one cigarette's worth of nicotine per day, without the 4000 other chemicals and tar and carcinogens. Am I still addicted? With some reserve, I'd say no. I really enjoy a nice sit-down vape. I know I could go 0 nic. But my mind functions better with my 12mg. I could do nicotine gum, but I hate chewing gum. I think I'll just leave this here, I could go on forever!
Tomorrow's another day, maybe you'll see something more hopeful. A spade can also be a shovel.

I've read the thread, now.. And I don't see why you were so "miffed".. I said in that very post "I know, because I was one of them"... What is the big deal? I agree with almost everything the original poster said, and I don't believe anything in my post was not in agreeance with her.

But I'll be darned if I'll sit here and say nicotine is all about rainbows and butterflies because it has benefits for some users (which I ALSO mentioned I could be on board with, IN THAT POST!)

 

[THE]

Umm..yeah. You need to come back and read the thread. It's about addictions not all being negative and nicotine - NOT about smoking and NOT that nicotine isn't addictive - just the excessively negative spin put on it, about it's addictiveness compared to other drugs, which purposely paints nicotine users in a negative light and compares them to h-erion addicts.

Umm... yeah.. I have, now. I'm on board with not all addictions being a bad thing. The ability to be addicted is a survival instinct; those who show strong addictive personalities are more likely to survive. Like I said in my post, I can be on board with nicotine benefiting some users. But the delivery device 90% (or something like that) use is a silent killer. And it's not a nice killer. It kills slowly and painfully.

I agree with everything you've said, so far. I've read it ALL up to and including this post of yours I'm quoting and will continue reading.

As an aside.. Look... I don't even usually talk with people who say ummm and dude .. You and that guy seem like you're VERY intelligent people. That kind of talk isn't necessary. Imagine someone completely confused about the issue getting on here to learn something. If they see UMMM and DUDE they're going to discount you. I know you're bright and intelligent because I've seen you post before. What if someone else doesn't?

I don't mean to offend you, but if you want your points to be well taken, drop that kind of talk.. Just like me, I know I say MAN too much. I'm working on that, myself.

 

[THE]

Let me ask you this - which one were you more motivated to quit? How was your crack use affecting your life that you WANTED to quit?

Maybe you just don't WANT to quit nicotine as much as you wanted to quit crack - especially since you can get nicotine in a relatively safe manner and it is somehow benefitting you.

This is an excellent point. It's what I mean in my post about cigarettes killing silently. And functioning as a nicotine addict. With cigarettes, you're fine. Then next week you're in a hospital bed dying. Or you wake up one morning spitting up blood. Or you're in for a checkup and find out you've got six months.

That's what cigarette smoking does. Might be a year from now, next week, ten years from now ... one never knows

But until you find out it's too late ... everything is going okay, you're productive, it's all fine. So like you're saying there's less here and now motivation to get away from cigarettes.