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Massive Voltage Drop Testing - Requests

Discussion in 'Mech Mods' started by politbureau, Nov 20, 2014.

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  1. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Hey team ECF,

    I'm about to start a round of voltage drop testing that I hope will be some of the most comprehensive ever attempted. I've managed to get my hands on a large number of authentic and 1:1 mech clones, and am putting together a test rig to streamline the process for consistency.

    While I still have mods arriving daily, I'd like to get started ASAP so I can return some of the mods to their rightful owners. With that in mind, I want to ensure that I cover all bases with these mods before I send them packing, so I'm giving a shout out to the ECF world to see what you'd like to see included in these tests.

    Currently, my test rig is setup for the following:

    - Support for 1 or 2 18xxx or 26xxx batteries, in series or parallel
    - 0.0, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 ohm loads
    - Battery sag under load / internal resistance
    - Real time voltage and resistance capture to software

    Using a separate circuit, I can actually test battery sag under load, which means I can calculate absolute voltage drop by subtracting this value. I'm also going to be able to test many of these with magnet upgrades installed, as many have come to me with both magnets and the original spring.

    Here's a small sampling of what I've got on deck:

    [​IMG]

    Suggestions and feedback appreciated! I am an engineer by training, but certainly a layman when it comes to this kind of testing. All comments good and bad are welcome.

    Also, if you are local to me and/or willing to lend me a mod for testing, I'd appreciate it!

    Cheers
     
  2. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Here's a current list of mods in the queue. I'll keep this updated as new stuff comes in.

    4nine
    Caravela
    Caravela Black
    Cartel Stainless
    Cartel 26650
    Cartel Copper
    Changeling Stainless
    Chi You Megan 26650
    Copper Penny
    Hades 26650
    Hammer
    JM22
    King v2 Dusted
    Manhattan
    Mutant 26650
    Overdose
    Pegasus
    Slojo
    Stingray Brass
    Stingray v1 Copper
    Stingray v2 Copper
    Stingray X
    Tree of Life
    Tree of life 26650
    Turtleship v1 Stainless
    Turtleship v2 Stainless
    Turtleship v2 Copper
    V3 Flip Stainless
    V3 Flip Rainbow
    Vanilla
    XXIX
     
  3. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Test Methodology (short version..)

    Multimeter: Agilent (Keysight) data logging multimeter, with software

    1. Clean mod threads, contacts, etc using aerosol electronics contact cleaner, microfiber cloth and toothbrush, were applicable

    2. Insert battery; adjust button (negative terminal) and positive terminal for fit:
    a) Battery under slight positive pressure
    b) All threads completely hidden (ie screwed in completely)
    c) All threads under pressure (screwed together tightly)

    3. Test/Record battery voltage under zero load condition

    4. Press mod button (voltages captured to software in real time)
    a) Regular Press: center press with moderate ('normal') pressure
    b) Hard Press: center press with firm (hardest) pressure
    c) North Press: press button at N position
    d) East Press: press button at E position
    e) South Press: press button at S position
    f) West Press: press button at W position
    g) Repeat 3 times

    5. Save dataset. Pull highest recorded voltage (peak search)

    6. Test/Record battery voltage under zero load condition

    7. Subtract median zero load voltage figure from highest recorded voltage from test
     
  4. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    First round testing completed at 0.5 ohms. I have a ton of data to sort through, but here are the preliminaries, as well as some notes and my top 5.

    Note: all mods 1:1 or authentic unless specified.

    0.30 - 0.40v drop (including battery sag)

    Stingray X Hybrid
    Stingray X 510
    XXIX
    Vanilla
    4nine (not 1:1, 6mm magnets)
    Turtleship v1 (straight threaded positive 510 pin, Caravela clone, same switch)

    0.40 - 0.50 drop (including battery sag)

    Mutant 26650 Steel (VCT5)
    Cartel Copper
    Caravela Black (straight threaded positive 510 pin, brass?)
    Changeling
    Cartel 26650 (Efest 3500)
    Overdose
    Pegasus
    Mutant 26650 (Efest 3500)
    Caravela Polished Stainless
    Stingray Brass
    Manhattan

    0.50 - 0.60v drop (including battery sag)

    Turtleship v2 Copper
    Cartel Stainless
    Hades 26650 (Efest 3500)
    Stingray v2 Copper
    Turtleship v2 Stainless
    V3 Flip
    Slojo
    V3 Flip Rainbow
    Copper Penny
    Stingray v1 Copper
    Chi You Megan 26650

    0.60 and below (including battery sag)

    Tree of Life
    Tree of life 26650
    JM22
    King v2
    Hammer

    Some notes of interest
    - Pegasus and Manhattan not as good as expected
    - Caravela's had higher than expected results
    - Hybrid devices all posted higher (highest) results
    - Raw copper contacts better than silver plated copper on like mods
    - Most devices with poor results let down by badly designed switch
    - Screwing devices together tightly, with battery under positive pressure provided best results
    - Many mods have wide positive contacts, making connection to flat top batteries poor/difficult

    There were a few mods that had superb switches, which fired to the same voltage almost every time, regardless of how/where they were pressed. So I decided to give the mods a score from 1-5 based on how consistent or 'stable' their switches were. This is a subjective rating, but based on viewing the real time voltage graph in software following the test. High scoring switches had a very flat/vertical response graph, while poorer switches had more variation.

    1: Best Switches (little to no voltage variation between presses)

    XXIX
    Manhattan
    Caravelas (incl Turtleship v1)
    Cartel Copper
    V3 Flip Rainbow (super consistent, despite poor drop results)

    2: Above Average Switches (very little voltage variation between presses)

    Stingray X
    Vanilla
    4nine
    Changeling
    Cartel 26650
    Slojo
    Copper Penny
    Tree of Life
    Tree of Life 26650

    3: Average Switches (moderate voltage variation between presses)

    Mutant 26650
    Overdose
    Pegasus
    Stingray Brass
    Stingray Copper v1/2
    Turtleship v2
    Cartel Stainless
    Hades 26650
    Chi You Megan 26650

    2: Below Average Switches (high voltage variation between presses, mods not recommended)

    V3 Flip (ironic considering the rainbow, above..)
    King v2

    1: Horrible Switches (voltage variation up to 1v, mods should be exorcised by a priest)

    Hammer
    JM22

    Overall top 5 mods, based on voltage drop results and switch consistency:

    1. XXIX
    2. Stingray X
    3. Turtleship v1 (Caravela clone w/ straight threaded positive 510 pin)
    4. Vanilla
    5. 4nine / Cartel Copper
     
  5. Norrin

    Norrin Super Member

    Aug 29, 2014
    Shetland
    A lot of work, but I'm sure some people will be able to make a better choice in purchasing something because of this, so well done and think you deserve a big thanks from everyone. Although There must be some clones there and none are mentioned as, the Hammer is suposed to be OK and the clones switch (some clones) are terrible not saying that one isn't real but you need to be sure which is which.
     
  6. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Thanks for the feedback! Yes, most of these are clones, though I've done a significant amount of research to figure out which ones are 1:1, and who the manufacturers are. I do have that information recorded, and will share with my dataset once everything is finished.

    I've also got magnet upgrades for 15 of these mods from Fat Daddy Vapes to install and test as well, and I imagine that will significantly alter test results for voltage drop and switch reliability. I won't be able to get to those tests for a while though, probably after xmas, as I still want to test stock configuration at different resistances.

    Cheers!
     
  7. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
    Just throwing my 2 worth here...a stringray clone with a 4.16 charge, .2 load gave me a voltage drop of .62, my question is, is that good at that load? I did ALOT of work to this clone(including removing magnets, hate magnets) did full silver contacts(I know for fact,had to cut and file for length), also running a stupid short spring for switch. Just want to confirm with other stringray clone owners if my work payed off
     
  8. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
    Forgot to add was stringray black, stripped paint though(wouldn't make a diff, no paint on threads) basically, I love ❤ reengineering stuff! Improved over crappy stock magnet switch by .32V at same.2 load
     
  9. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
    Btdubs, mad love for the research you r doing, this is the stuff I geek out over
     
  10. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Thanks for the kind words!

    That certainly sounds like a solid drop. If you tell me what battery and the exact resistance (and atomizer) I may be able to duplicate and give you something to compare to.

    Cheers
     
  11. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    ^^^^ This! I'm guessing there are waaay too many people who think clones are "just as good" but cheaper since the design was ripped off or that there are only cosmetic or fit and finish differences.
     
  12. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    I applaud your effort but have some reservations about testing clones....
    First off they're... clones. Someone has stolen the design (or at least the appearance) and then produced something at a fraction of the cost. These are likely sourced from a number of manufacturers who are in the business of making a number of different clones. I would not expect much if any consistency between one batch to the next and even from one unit to another. You're surely not going to get any reliable information from the manufacturer either. After all they ripped off the design at best. Sure a Kayfun design is going to be a Kayfun as far as the mechanics of the juice delivery or basic configuration but for these type of tests I can't see much value in the results since they will only be valid for the particular unit that YOU have in hand.
     
  13. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
    @ quick1, Do u really think o.g. Manufacturers are testing every device on voltage drop?, American or not? Do u really think. O.g. Manufacturers are not outsourcing their product? Come on folks...ya got o.g. Manufacturers charging 3 bills plus for a copper tube, with a switch they ripped off from somebody else!!!! So lets say, o.g. Manufacturer of tobh, should have a vendetta at the others that stole that deck design??? So lets say mutation x put more holes in barrel, that makes it ingenious? Fact is this business is making mad money...everybody wants on the money train....clone or "authentic".... Not standing up for clones or authentic,just seems like first to put their name on it wins, no matter who they rip off...
     
  14. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
    Tobhv2 clone with copper pos.pin, Bart is Sammy 25r, exact resistance is .24
     
  15. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Perfect, I've got that exact setup - will do a manual test tomorrow when I have time. Cheers!
     
  16. Jjshbetz11

    Jjshbetz11 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2013
    Ohio
  17. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    No. But I do believe they are getting their raw materials most often from the same source and even when changing sources with the same specs and standards,
    I do believe they are using the same machines and process and quality control to make their product. On the other hand the Chinese knock off and counterfeit market is very very different. And it's huge. That industry is mostly a conglomerate of a massive number of very small companies and plants. The large sellers source from many many small plants. The small plants pop up and get shut down all the time. Most do not conform to the regulations of the government and province they are in.

    Here is a good example. I ordered 2 Krakens from Fastech. They both arrived in the same package.
    Both say Kraken on the side of the tube and have the logo on the other side.
    One says Kraken on the bottom. The other says ViscousAnt on the bottom.
    Both tubes appear to be similar polished SS.
    The end caps on one appear to be made of a different material. At least they do not visually match the tank.
    One is a smaller diameter than the other.
    One has shiney stainless appearing screws in the deck hardware. The other has darker less shiney screws.

    You see my point? I'll bet that if I got 2 of the original product they would look the same and I'd wager they would test the same within a pretty tight tolerance. These two "Krakens" from Fastech? I don't think so. If I tested one of these and put up results for "Kraken from Fastech" it wouldn't have much value except for the actual unit I tested.

    Sure, the ones that don't make their stuff in house would outsource it. But they're going to outsource it to meet certain specs. If you're selling clones at 1/10th the price there is not a lot of incentive to have much of any specs other than how close it appears visually to the genuine product.
     
  18. Norrin

    Norrin Super Member

    Aug 29, 2014
    Shetland
    Most clones are made by more than 1 factory so you need to know which clone it is, this doesn't mean that all clones are bad just that you can't say this XXXXXX clone is good therefore all XXXXXX clones are good. Someone posted about a clone that was made in the same factory as the original and the only real difference was that it used inferior materials (can't comment might be BS). Still I would expect all clones from factory A making clone B will be comparable if not as tight as SOME originals, you must remember that there have been some reports of the clone surpassing the original so knowing about what you are getting rather than if it's a clone is the important part.
     
  19. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    Exactly my point. For example, testing a Kraken from FastTech doesn't have much value since the next Kraken from FastTech might be completely different. They could well have been made in different factories using different materials and processes. I wasn't saying clones are necessarily bad (although being sold for 1/10th the price I might lean towards expecting the original to be better). Just that test results from a clone have little value except for saying something about that particular clone.
     
  20. politbureau

    politbureau Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2014
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Here are your test results.

    Tested using Agilent Multimeter directly at posts

    EHpro Tobh v2 Clone (copper 510)
    0.246 ohm coil 26g Kanthal A1
    Infinite Stingray X on Hybrid Adapter
    Fat Daddy Vapes Magnet Upgrade
    Samsung INR18650-25R

    4.143v - No load voltage before test
    3.494v - Highest Load voltage
    4.117v - No load voltage after test
    4.130v - Median no load voltage

    0.636v - Voltage drop under load
     
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