Mechanical Mods....

[dapir8]

Like many I run both. ST Natural and Provari all with cartos. Before getting the Provari I was pretty much fine with the battery 3.7 v - 4.0 v and low res cartos. Then I got the Provari and had to get the kick for my Natural to match the warmth. Same juices same cartos. I personally find the higher power experience more enjoyable. Durability when comparing provari to mechanical other is a toss up unless you absolutely abuse your gear. The provari is pretty darned rugged.

To me the biggest advantage of the mechanical is that it is unregulated. I can take a longer slower draw whereas the provari cuts me off after several seconds.

I may consider rba's someday, just not tomorrow.

 

[bob_]

Like many I run both. ST Natural and Provari all with cartos. Before getting the Provari I was pretty much fine with the battery 3.7 v - 4.0 v and low res cartos. Then I got the Provari and had to get the kick for my Natural to match the warmth. Same juices same cartos. I personally find the higher power experience more enjoyable. Durability when comparing provari to mechanical other is a toss up unless you absolutely abuse your gear. The provari is pretty darned rugged.

Thanks for the information! Though, ugh, oh my, I've heard so many great things about Provaris, and I'm dreading having to pull the trigger on that purchase.

 

[namesCJDR]

you really cant go wrong with a provari but when it comes to rebuildables it will be hard for new people but once you get the hang of wraping at 1.2 ohms then its just a breeze. if you get into rebuildables get yourself a good mechanical.

 

[D4rk50ul]

O.k. besides taking a side on the matter mechanical and higher end VV/VW devices aren't much different to be honest. There are pro's and con's to both sides so you need to decide which is best for you.

Variable Voltage/Wattage mods allow you to change your devices power to match the resistance of your burner as well as temperament of your juice. The biggest advantage besides that is you will get the same power delivered each time you press the button with no drop off until the battery dies.

Mechanical mods lack the circuitry so in theory they have less parts to break and usually have a much sturdier button. They are only limited in the battery they use and the resistance the mods design puts against it before it hits the burner. They can put full power to a super low ohm coil without fussing. They do have one huge drawback, the power goes down as the battery dies so you will slowly get a lesser experience as you vape until the battery dies.

That's pretty much it. Choose your weapon

 

[Telescope Neil]

A mechanical mod's advantage is that it will fire all attys no matter the resistance, that's why RBAs and gennies are highly favored to put at mechanicals, because these attys work best near or below 1ohm. Now for example, i run my 0.8ohm did clone on a mechanical with a battery fully charged, that's approximately 4.2 volts of power put to the did. that's about 16+ watts (idk the math) wherein a regulated mod like a Provari wouldn't let you go that high, and 1.2ohms and below on a provari would not fire.

But now you might be thinking, what would be the difference if you use a 2.5ohm atty and fire it at a certain voltage to achieve the same watts? Well, it would taste burnt, but on a 0.8ohm coil at 4 volts won't. That's because sub ohm coils in RBAs use a lower gauge of wire which is noticeably thicker, meaning it has a higher resistance of temperature, that's why it won't taste burnt. But a higher gauge wire in a higher ohm is very thin, that's why it will easily get hot and will be the source of burn tastes.

Now about the voltage drops on mechanicals, this is the problem for those. Voltage drop on mechanicals are unavoidable unless you use a drop in regulated module like the Kick, but the Kick will only go as high as 10 watts, so it's not preferred for RBAs. Voltage drops will be less if conductivity were to be improved by upgrading the pins on the mod itself. I don't really know what pins are on many mechanicals, but an expensive or a high end one will atleast have copper pins. positive and negative pins made of copper will highly improve conductivity, thus minimizing the drop. But there are also silver pins, which are considered to be the most conductive metal on earth. I don't know if someone upgardes pins on the US, but here locally i know a guy who does.

Hope this helps!

 

[tj99959]

Can someone please explain what a mechanical mod is? I thought they all used electric current. Still learning.

The Mako is the perfect example that shows what a mechanical mod is & how it works.

You don't even have to go to the fancy stuff to get a great vape from a mechanical, you are just as likely to catch me with a little SmokTech shorty 1.7 ohm carto on my Reo as a fancy atomizer. (yes, the Reo is also fully mechanical)

 

[matthewgnuhc]

i... absolutely love the mods!!! i dont touch my provari anymore

 

[ClippinWings]

Thanks for the information! Though, ugh, oh my, I've heard so many great things about Provaris, and I'm dreading having to pull the trigger on that purchase.

It's about the same price, if not cheaper than most mechanicals of comparable quality.

Sent from the ether using the power of my mind... and the Tapatalk app.

 

[biggerintx]

What I don't understand about mechanicals is how one deals with the voltage variance as the battery discharges. From what I've read they start out at about 4.2V and drop to 3.2V as you vape with a lot of the time spent around 3.7V. But still a full volt of range seems like the vape is going to be less than optimal half the time. Are the low ohm RBAs much more forgiving on the voltage than normal resistance cartons and clearos?

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

What I don't understand about mechanicals is how one deals with the voltage variance as the battery discharges. From what I've read they start out at about 4.2V and drop to 3.2V as you vape with a lot of the time spent around 3.7V. But still a full volt of range seems like the vape is going to be less than optimal half the time. Are the low ohm RBAs much more forgiving on the voltage than normal resistance cartons and clearos?

Actually, output voltage of most external batteries are 3.7, although that diminishes when charge gets sufficiently low.

Low resistance means larger amplitude oscillation in wattage, i.e less forgiving on the voltage.

W = U^2/R

Derive with respect to U:

dW/dU = 2U/R

The lower the resistance, the larger the rate of change.

 

[JacobTX]

you really cant go wrong with a provari but when it comes to rebuildables it will be hard for new people but once you get the hang of wraping at 1.2 ohms then its just a breeze. if you get into rebuildables get yourself a good mechanical.

And once you can wrap the coils, then you gotta figure out the SS mesh.

And that'd be where I'm currently stuck.

 

[biggerintx]

Kanj.nguyen,

What I've seen for the output of the batteries looks like this:

Edit: Since the forum software attaches the image poorly here is the direct link to the graph:
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae245/Battery_Guy/AWIMR2C-1.jpg

As you can see there is quite a bit of voltage variation during discharge. It is not a nice steady 3.7V and thus my question about if RBAs somehow allow this large variation to be acceptable. Or maybe people just put up with it for other reasons. This is what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[HK-47]

This looks like some solid information, which has helped me significantly to making a choice on my own future setup. Thank you for the math and examples on this. I'm not hard on my gear, usually, so the mechanical has lost some of it's appeal for me until I reach a more advanced stage of vaping.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

Kanj.nguyen,

What I've seen for the output of the batteries looks like this:

Edit: Since the forum software attaches the image poorly here is the direct link to the graph:
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae245/Battery_Guy/AWIMR2C-1.jpg

As you can see there is quite a bit of voltage variation during discharge. It is not a nice steady 3.7V and thus my question about if RBAs somehow allow this large variation to be acceptable. Or maybe people just put up with it for other reasons. This is what I'm trying to figure out.

Yes, there is a voltage variance, but since the time it spends above 4.0 is neglectible, cells are often labeled as 3.7. As you can see in the graph, after 20% capacity it dips down to 3.75 and stays there for 50% until it drops to 3.5. If you write capacity percentage as a function of time, the difference is even larger in hours since lower voltage means slower discharge and thus slower draining of capacity... Makes sense?

Mech users can tell from vape quality change when its time to charge their battery. Assuming you build coils yourself, you are supposed to assume 3.7 as typical voltage. Then the change in wattage between 4.2 and 3.7, or between 3.7 and 3.5, happens for a short amount of time. Also, 0.5 V difference on a 1 ohm coil translates to 4 W; this change in energy is also distributed over the metal around it, so the variance in coil temperature, which is what ultimately matters, is sufficiently small.

Hope that makes sense conceptually, cant do much more calculations beyond that without much more extensive data of the entire set up.

Edit: also, nobody has an exact wattage they can use, because honestly humans can only perceive change of a certain magnitude. So say im ok with wattage being between 10 and 12 (as i in fact am, using my VAMO). If you factor this in as well, the amount of time the coil temperature spends outside of your favorite zone is very small.

 

[Plumes.91]

anyone know of a mech mod that is stainless and brass that is easily obtained/found, not too expensive?
I know of the GG but I am looking for something around the 100-150 range. Not the GG.

Stainless and Brass mech mod? Preferrably not 18650. 18350/18500. 14500, etc..

 

[biggerintx]

Ok so if I'm understanding correctly one just can't detect a large difference in the vape experience across the voltage drop on a mechanical mod? That seems to run against what I've experienced with basic VV where often a few tenths of a volt up or down is noticeable in vapor production, flavor, and/or throat hit (like eGo Twist and Vivi Nova or Boge SR carto). But I have no experience with mechanicals or RBAs, so no frame of reference.

So with a 1.0 Ohm coil, if I'm doing this right, the power range is 16W to 11.6W, with half the time spent between 14 W and 12.3 W. That still seems like a big range, but like you are saying in practice it must be OK or people wouldn't be so enamored with the unregulated mechanical mods and very low resistance coils - especially considering they cost more than the common regulated units like the Vamo.

Is it the thicker wire used to get the low resistance coils produces a more consistent temperature output across the wider power range than the thinner wire used in the standard resistance heads (that then makes the standard resistance coils more power sensitive)?

Or again are the mechanical fans just putting up with more variation because they have to in order to get the low resistance vape they want while it is in the sweet spot (i.e. they put up with the rest because the sweet spot is so good)?


At 1.0 Ohm, 4.0 V is 16.0 W
3.9 is 15.2
3.8 is 14.4
3.7 is 13.7
3.6 is 13.0
3.5 is 12.3
3.4 is 11.6

 

[440BB]

Using an AW IMR battery in a mechanical mod, the voltage is fairly flat for most of its use. An 18650 with a 1.6 - 1.8 ohm clearo stays in my "sweet spot" for hours. I guess I've gotten used to expecting it to be a bit warm on the first dozen pulls and keep my wick wetter. The fall off is noticeable, so only a couple vapes at the end of it's useful voltage before I swap batteries. It really hasn't been an inconvenience or an issue for me.

 

[biggerintx]

Thanks 440BB,

With a 1.6-1.8 Ohm coil that seems more reasonable. At 1.7 Ohm the power variation from 4.0-3.4V is only 2.6W (9.4 to 6.8W with a lot of that time around 8.1 +-0.5W). With my limited experience 8W with a single coil is a good vape so that makes sense to me.

I also understand as the battery discharges you just stop vaping a given battery when it drops into the lower voltage range and swap to a fresh battery. Seeing the curve there is a very steep drop-off so it will tell you, and that also makes sense.

But that still leaves the folks talking about vaping RBA's at around 1 Ohm with unregulated mechanical mods. I understand they have to use a mechanical because the VV/VW mods won't fire at that low a resistance. What I don't understand is why do I see so many posts about these very low resistance coils. The power curve doesn't make sense to me (16.0-11.6W?).

I'm guessing it is something about the steel wicks that allows for that higher power and wider power range to be acceptable. As kanj.nguyen indicated it might be due to the power being translated to coil temperature in a way that is different from the mainstream devices I've used.

Or maybe it is just the internet effect and there is a small but vocal minority running these very low resistance (0.8-1.2 Ohm) setups while a larger but less vocal group is running coils as you described round 1.7 Ohms. I've only been vaping for a month so it is hard for me to tell.

 

[440BB]

When you've found a setup or setups that work well for you, there isn't as much to talk about day to day. I don't think there are all that many vapers winding their own coils, let alone going below 1.5 ohms. Egos and simple mods are the norm but ECF is a place for enthusiasts. ECF is a good place to discuss hole diameters, coil and wick varieties and perhaps brag a bit. There are a large number of posts right now about extremely low resistance RBA's, and I'm sure their owners are happy with them.

In the recent past, dual coils, clearos, carto tanks and variable wattage were the new cool thing and dominated the posts. The vast majority of vapers enjoy rather simple setups between 1.5 and 3 ohms that they find very satisfying. I think most vapers are using cartos, carto tanks, clearos and simple top and bottom coil silica wicking tanks, at 3.7 volts or on a vv device.

I hope you find your sweet spot on the tinkering-simplicity-fashion-functionality spectrum. Whatever combination that pleases you and keeps you vaping. If you read enough here you will end up with a fun collection and hobby, as well as a somewhat lighter wallet!

 

[biggerintx]

Whatever combination that pleases you and keeps you vaping. If you read enough here you will end up with a fun collection and hobby, as well as a somewhat lighter wallet!

This is why I keep coming back to this community - it is so friendly!