Medically Mind Numbing Post

[James]

There is a new post on the electronic cigarette here; Medically Mind Numbing: Electronic Cigarette

Says more research needs to be done into the electronic cigarette, which I suppose is true, but also gives rather too much weight to the FDA.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Currently, the FDA is not a huge fan of the electronic cigarette. They currently state that they don't believe that electronic cigarettes are a safe alternative, and actually are too easily marketed towards young people. In fact, some of these companies sell e-cigarettes which have no nicotine but just vaporized flavor. The FDA says this kind of thing is obvious marketing towards trying to get teenagers hooked.

Say WHAAAAAAAAAAT????? I'd like someone to explain this leap of logic..... how can a FOG MACHINE (and without the nicotine, that's ALL it is!!!) addict a teen (OMG think of the CHILDREN!!!) user to cigarettes?

 

[Wellner]

Say WHAAAAAAAAAAT????? I'd like someone to explain this leap of logic..... how can a FOG MACHINE (and without the nicotine, that's ALL it is!!!) addict a teen (OMG think of the CHILDREN!!!) user to cigarettes?

"Kids, KIDS!? Wanna try something new and cool!? You can be just like your moms and dads! But instead of that nasty smoky smell, it tastes like bubblegum!"

I see the foundation of the argument, but from my understanding, even the 0mg juice is strongly noted to 18 and over. At least from most suppliers. I don't see any solid information in their arguments, but if there's enough statements, people will look less into each of them, and only focus on the subject.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

There is no basis for that argument. It is simply scare tactic.

Sure, there are going to be some suppliers who don't care and frankly, they should be tarred and feathered... just as those who sell tobacco to kids should be and there are far more of those then there are ecig suppliers selling to kids.

From what I can tell, on this forum anyways, most ecig suppliers are ex-smokers. We are mostly between the ages of 30 and 45. Most of us have been smoking for a minimum of 15 years. Our customers are people just like us and we are adamant about verifying age and doing right.

What's happened: Is that most do not believe the above to be true (mostly by failure to do some simple research and question asking) and think this is a ploy by big tobacco. Once that message gets out, that we are in fact hurting big tobacco, we should hopefully see a massive change in this ignorant rant about the children! 8-o

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

There is no basis for that argument...
...Once that message gets out, that we are in fact hurting big tobacco, we should hopefully see a massive change in this ignorant rant about the children! 8-o

I, somewhat disagree, in that there is a basis to their argument. But not what you think. IMHO, it is human nature to project our own beliefs and motis operandi onto others. That is we see ourself reflected back in the people we observe. This doesn't make what we are observing true, we just lay our own motivations onto others. We look at what the powers that be are doing and try to understand why they are doing it.

I think that the argument that all these colors and flavors etc. are there to target children, is because they, TPTB, are into targeting children. They are overlaying their own meathods and they way they operate onto the general public. Their tatics and arguments are infintile, because they view the gerneral public as children that need to be led by them, the adults. So, they incorrectly, say that the e-cig industry is targeting children, based on their own methodology of doing the same thing.

Just my two cents... oops forgot current state of the economy... just my two dollars.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

SheerLuck -

I can't disagree with anything you have written. It makes perfect sense and I had never thought about that before so thank you

 

[Vocalek]

Left a comment:

The FDA conducted its tests and did NOT find the very things that make tobacco smoke so deadly: no tar, no carbon monoxide, no heavy metals. They found barely detectable traces of substances that are found in vastly greater quantities in the tobacco cigarettes. So duh, which is safer?

FDA claims they need clinical trials to prove the safety of the product. Apparently they learned nothing from their handling of Chantix, which appeared to be safe from clinical trials. However, the true measure of any product's safety is how safe it is when it is put into general use. In the case of Chantix, FDA saw a record number of problem reports 3063 serious injuries and 78 deaths--especially among the types of folks who were excluded from the clinical trials.

The electronic cigarette has already passed the acid test. It is out there being used by hundreds of thousands of healthy people, people with Cancer, COPD, depression, anxiety, etc. There have been no deaths and none of the types of serious problems seen with Chantix.

And yet, just today I read a post by a navy sailor who is going out to buy a pack of cigarettes because e-cigarettes were just banned by his superior officer. Wonderful!

 

[Pugzley]

"Their tatics and arguments are infintile, because they view the gerneral public as children that need to be led by them, the adults."

This is so true. There are actually marketing courses set up training people on how some want a "daddy" to "take care" of them. And some politicians also take these courses and learn how to become parent figures to the public. I wish I had the link to that. I'll try to find it and post it somewhere where it belongs.

 

[kristin]

We seriously need a "man on the street" video showing how many kids would actually want to fork out even the $40 they can get a 510 kit for online - because of the bubblegum flavor! The mall kiosks that are "targeting kids" charge nearly 3 times that!

Teens will fork out cash for CDs, DVDs, ipods, cell phones, video games, junk food and clothes. They will NOT be willing to spend their precious allowances on something "old people" use to "quit smoking." I know, I have two teens! It's too easy to get a pack of Indian Spirits (MUCH COOLER) for $5 or free from their parent's carton.

 

[ndstrctbl]

i love to argue this to people who think the e-cig is marketed towards children. they arent marketed towards children at all...the so called "fun" flavors are actually easier to produce than the tobacco type flavors. obviously since yuo can us LorAnn flavorings and make your own easy enough. personally i like these "fun" flavors. and, just like cigarettes, you must have proper I.D. to purchase one. oh and zero MG urges kids to use the e-cig? give me a break! they have the lower levels so you can get the MG amount you need to be satisfied or use it as a kick the habit device. it was originally designed to be an alternative but it can serve as dual purpose. im not sure if anyone else has n oticed, but companies like Smoking anywhere are one of the few that actually advertise flavors that go with the product. products like the 510 dont seem to push flavors. it seems like the companies that spend alot on advertising versus product quality have their own flavorings and push them pretty hard. like the Blu and Smoking Anywhere do.i think the FDA needs to browse this forum to see what they are really about

 

[Missa]

After decades of struggling to stay off analogs (being in the closet on and off mostly because I did not want to be a bad example to my children) I found out that my 18 year old son had been smoking socially for nearly a year. Once he moved away to college he was hooked and eventually came clean with us. We are talking about a squeaky clean athletic kid here, one you NEVER expect to see smoking. My husband and I had just switched to ecigs so our conversation included the fact that we would never wish any unhealthy habits on him but maybe this was a better alternative. He bought one, yeah he did like the flavors that's true, but he did immediately quit smoking analogs. A few weeks later he said he was barely even vaping. It was what he needed to realize that cigarettes were nasty. Now he only takes his ecig out with him when he knows he's going to be around smokers so he won't be tempted. He never wants to smoke again, he didn't even realize how it was already affecting his ability to breathe while working out, running, etc. and how bad his clothes smelled until he stopped.

My point is that a lot of kids are going to smoke no matter what. (Even if their parents don't smoke, cuz my kids never knew we did.) As for availability - cigarettes are not very hard for underage kids to get either and the longer they smoke analogs the more addicted they will become. We are not addicted to flavors, we are addicted to nicotine. I mean really, are they going to stop selling flavored alcohol? Because honestly that's a lot more dangerous. If ecigs can deliver a wake up call and a way to back down on nicotine long enough for those who are not buried in decades of habitual smoking to realize that they don't want to be a smoker I believe their ecig habit will be shortlived. If not, well I'd rather have my kid addicted to nicotine that contains English Toffee than nicotine that contains tar and carbon monoxide.

Just two cents from a mom . . . . I think the flavor thing is dumb.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I mean really, are they going to stop selling flavored alcohol?

Missa - It's good to hear that your son got off of tobacco cigarettes using an ecig! And your 2 cents are not dumb at all. As a mom, I have the same philosophy... They are going to do it... so let's give them the responsible, least harmful options... no matter what the subject matter.

The other day, my 5 year old had an accident on the playground and smashed her face on the slide. Big black cheek and fat lip followed. Also complaints of headaches. So I got her some bubblegum flavored children's liquid tylenol. Enough to get her through the night.

The next morning, she insisted that she needed more medicine. After eliminating that anything actually hurt, I asked her why she really wanted the medicine and her response "It tastes so good mommy. It can't be that bad to have more if it tastes like that."

Wow. Enlightening. I had never made this connection... ever. Children are programmed since day one to like the "fruity" flavors and it isn't the tobacco industry that programs this, it is the pharmaceutical industry.

I remember being held down to take my medicines as a kid. And once they released the cherry flavored chewable tylenol, I also remember sneaking bottles of them from the medicine cabinet because it tasted like candy.

If anything, we need to be banning flavors from children's medicines as it teaches children at a very early age that medicines are tasty and can cure anything.

 

[CHUCKLEHEAD]

My son always told me i was stupid for smoking!!!!!! Now he says i just look stupid vaping!!!!!!>>>>> I think i can live with that analogy coming from a 14 yr old<>

 

[CHUCKLEHEAD]

After decades of struggling to stay off analogs (being in the closet on and off mostly because I did not want to be a bad example to my children) I found out that my 18 year old son had been smoking socially for nearly a year. Once he moved away to college he was hooked and eventually came clean with us. We are talking about a squeaky clean athletic kid here, one you NEVER expect to see smoking. My husband and I had just switched to ecigs so our conversation included the fact that we would never wish any unhealthy habits on him but maybe this was a better alternative. He bought one, yeah he did like the flavors that's true, but he did immediately quit smoking analogs. A few weeks later he said he was barely even vaping. It was what he needed to realize that cigarettes were nasty. Now he only takes his ecig out with him when he knows he's going to be around smokers so he won't be tempted. He never wants to smoke again, he didn't even realize how it was already affecting his ability to breathe while working out, running, etc. and how bad his clothes smelled until he stopped.

My point is that a lot of kids are going to smoke no matter what. (Even if their parents don't smoke, cuz my kids never knew we did.) As for availability - cigarettes are not very hard for underage kids to get either and the longer they smoke analogs the more addicted they will become. We are not addicted to flavors, we are addicted to nicotine. I mean really, are they going to stop selling flavored alcohol? Because honestly that's a lot more dangerous. If ecigs can deliver a wake up call and a way to back down on nicotine long enough for those who are not buried in decades of habitual smoking to realize that they don't want to be a smoker I believe their ecig habit will be shortlived. If not, well I'd rather have my kid addicted to nicotine that contains English Toffee than nicotine that contains tar and carbon monoxide.

Just two cents from a mom . . . . I think the flavor thing is dumb.

Wait now you mean to tell me afther 18 years he never knew you smoked????? I don;t think so?????Unless you kept him in a closet and then sent him off to college!!!!!!!

 

[Snarkyone]

This is the oldest trick in the book with the "anti" crowd. Throw enough poo against the wall and go after what sticks. Scream "It's for the sake of the children" and only monsters and pedophiles would be against a law that protects children right?

They play on the fact that the average person has the attention span of a goldfish and just hears the bad blurbs and forms an opinion. The best thing you can do to fight this is encourage people to use their brains for more than a hatrack.

 

[Missa]

I just can't understand why anyone with half a brain would have a problem with ecigs. I wish they WOULD do clinical tests on the harmful effects but so far I only see positive. I feel better, I breathe easier. We already know what smoking does to our lungs - unless they find that vaping is damaging I don't see what the problem is. I'll be happy if all the kids out there are vaping instead of smoking. Almost everyone who smokes desperately wants to quit - why don't "they" do everything possible to help us make absolutely sure that vaping is healthy? Tweak it if it isn't, and then celebrate!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Wait now you mean to tell me afther 18 years he never knew you smoked????? I don;t think so?????Unless you kept him in a closet and then sent him off to college!!!!!!!

My mom was a closet smoker. I had NO CLUE and I was a smoker myself! I never found any indication to think she was a smoker because what she was preaching... would not lead me to believe otherwise. I never smelled it... maybe because I smelled it on myself... I never found butts, lighters, ashtrays, empty cans full of butts... nothing. She and my dad were married for 30 years and he never suspected it himself until when she and I were caught sneaking a cigarette behind the garage (I was 25). He was shocked more at her smoking than catching me!

It is very easy to hide from your kids. Just as it is very easy for kids to hide it from their parents.

 

[jj2]

My son, who had asthma, smoked every once in a while. He knew I disapproved and that asthma was why, since he was five, I went outside to smoke.

He even explained later, after he gave it up, that I wasn't why he started---it was because the kids he ran around with smoked.
The flavor had nothing to do with it.

 

[Missa]

Wait now you mean to tell me afther 18 years he never knew you smoked????? I don;t think so?????Unless you kept him in a closet and then sent him off to college!!!!!!!

I know, hard to believe but it's true. Let me qualify that after being VERY heavy smokers prekids I quit when I was pregnant, never smoked inside after they were born, we never smoked around them and it is easy to hide from them when they are very small. Then we basically quit (deep in the closet, haha) for years. My husband smoked at work, I smoked when the kids were at school, after they went to bed. Lots of tooth brushing, gum chewing and periods of time when we really weren't smoking but it was always a struggle. Well, then they get big enough that they're gone a lot, it gets easier again to hide. Like I said, we struggled, quit, hid, started again, hid some more. That's my point, it's a monkey on your back that never goes away and we were pathetic, we found out about the ecigs and got them so we wouldn't turn into chain smokers once the kids were gone and we didn't have to hide anymore. My kids MIGHT have seen us smoke a few times at big gatherings - guys smoking cigars etc - but that's it. The cat's out of the bag now I know they'd tell us if they had known.

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

I just can't understand why anyone with half a brain would have a problem with ecigs. I wish they WOULD do clinical tests on the harmful effects but so far I only see positive. I feel better, I breathe easier. We already know what smoking does to our lungs - unless they find that vaping is damaging I don't see what the problem is. I'll be happy if all the kids out there are vaping instead of smoking. Almost everyone who smokes desperately wants to quit - why don't "they" do everything possible to help us make absolutely sure that vaping is healthy? Tweak it if it isn't, and then celebrate!

I hate to bring this up, but 'they' want the money. It is acceptable in our society to abuse and misuse the public for money. There is BIG money in pharma, tobacco, junk food etc etc etc. It starts when we are little, I want, I need, I I I I I. Then as we get older and finally find a partner it is We Want, We Need. WE WE WE WE. It hardley ever extends past the family, or local level. The rest of society and the world can go to hell in a handbasket as long as I and then MY family are safe and cared for.

Those individuals in Washington are making laws for the rest of the public and exempting themselves. They are taking care of their Is and MYs. The hell with the others.

Until WE (the rest of us ~ All of humanity) starts to really get that we are all in this together, until WE really understand that we are not an island and treat every other human being as an equal and a part of our own family, things will stay pretty much as they are.

Do you think that any one of our legislators or those at the FDA would condemn their lover, their mother, or their child back to analogs? No, never. But they have no problem doing it to the rest of the public, because they don't understand at some gut level the impact they are having on us.

I don't know how to get them to understand this. It seems so simple to me. But we have to try, we have to stand up and demand equal treatment. If any lawmaker votes for any legislation and then exempts themself from the same law I will never vote for that person again. I have written my congressman and told him this. If 40% of us did this things will change. Or we can sit here on the blog and complain to each other.