I want to try different set ups with my RSST. I have some 400 metal mesh and kanthal, but I was wondering if Silica and ribbon kanthal would be a good option to try. I want to at least try something from the net. I found the vendor kidneypuncher.com that will probably have everything I'd need, but I simply don't know what size stuff to get or how the ribbon kanthal works or even is. thanks.
Mesh and Kanthal question for use with Smoktech RSST
- Thread starter Nathan Kapel
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did I post this in the wrong spot? bump, anywho, maybe more then 32 people will check it out today before it gets pushed down
edit: Well, just using the 400 mesh fairly lightly torched as cut as well as when rolled up. Kanthal gauge is 30, I'm getting 1.1 ohms with 4 wraps, then I prime the kanthal with a mech mod (dry), then it tests at 1.3 ohms on my ZMAX, the minimum to have it work. I wonder why that happens, but I can't fit any more wraps unless I get really close with each wrap (causing possible problem "shorts" I've been told).
I'm pretty good at tinkering with it once wrapped dry to get it all evenly working by touching the wire and firing with a tweezers where its hot (top and bottom). I'm actually getting pretty good results, but I know the flavor is just off to me a bit.
So yeah guys/girls, just looking for soild suggestions to try. I vape at 5mg/ml to experience the best flavor possible without running into variables that make the it not work ideally. I figure its mostly the wick that I'm using that is actually changing the flavor, but also, is all kanthal made alike? Obviously I'd like to try the best wick/kanthal set up to produce great flavor.
I don't really know what the best options would be for me, I want to try something that creates a more pure flavor of the actual liquid. To be honest, I think I wrap these pretty well now and I'm not unsatisfied with what I'm using now, I just want to progress and will need kanthal and wicks here eventually so I'd love to place an order if only I was steered in the right direction.
edit 2: found this http://vaporcruz.blogspot.com/2013/08/hybrid-wick-for-all-genesis-atomizers_12.html
edit: Well, just using the 400 mesh fairly lightly torched as cut as well as when rolled up. Kanthal gauge is 30, I'm getting 1.1 ohms with 4 wraps, then I prime the kanthal with a mech mod (dry), then it tests at 1.3 ohms on my ZMAX, the minimum to have it work. I wonder why that happens, but I can't fit any more wraps unless I get really close with each wrap (causing possible problem "shorts" I've been told).
I'm pretty good at tinkering with it once wrapped dry to get it all evenly working by touching the wire and firing with a tweezers where its hot (top and bottom). I'm actually getting pretty good results, but I know the flavor is just off to me a bit.
So yeah guys/girls, just looking for soild suggestions to try. I vape at 5mg/ml to experience the best flavor possible without running into variables that make the it not work ideally. I figure its mostly the wick that I'm using that is actually changing the flavor, but also, is all kanthal made alike? Obviously I'd like to try the best wick/kanthal set up to produce great flavor.
I don't really know what the best options would be for me, I want to try something that creates a more pure flavor of the actual liquid. To be honest, I think I wrap these pretty well now and I'm not unsatisfied with what I'm using now, I just want to progress and will need kanthal and wicks here eventually so I'd love to place an order if only I was steered in the right direction.
edit 2: found this http://vaporcruz.blogspot.com/2013/08/hybrid-wick-for-all-genesis-atomizers_12.html
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Well just my .02 FWIW, I've seen no reason to use anything but mesh wicks and kanthal coils. It works good enough for me, but if you want try something else just for giggles there are a lot of videos on YouTube about doing those things. You can do any of a number of different things with your RBA, U-wicks, silica wicks, dual coils, ceramic wicks, microcoil and cotton wicks, braided horsehair wicks (not recommended) and I'm sure there are wicks I've never heard of as well.
Just jump in there and play with it all
Just jump in there and play with it all
ha yeah, cool beans. Well I think I'm gunna order silica 2 mm, more 400 metal mesh, more kanthal (dunno what gauge to go with yet). Gotta go to work right now, but eventually here I'll figure out what all to get exactly for possible ideal results.
also, I believe my thread should be here if someone can move it: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/
also, I believe my thread should be here if someone can move it: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/
I don't know the difference, but it looks like a standard wire, so I guess flat? When I place my order, I want to be sure to get what I will want/need to have for a difference in performance with metal mesh alone. I'll have fun trying different ohms out eventually, but what I need now is the supplies. Silica, metal mesh (400) and kanthal of some kind.
I would like to know what ribbon kanthal is and how it works differently then regular wire.
I was also wondering regarding the silica, That link showed how to make a wick with the 2mm silica on the inside of 1mm more width of mesh. I would think this would wick liquid better, but I'm not sure I'll be happy with it. Can you also use a certain silica to use on the outside of metal mesh? Like a covering for more ideal contact with the wire and wick. I suppose I could also use a SS braid for that as well.
I want to try both methods separately and together, but I don't know what to order exactly and from where, but I'll take a look right now.
PS:I tend to like a cooler vape, 0 harshness and a slight nicotine edge with amazing flavor.
Basically I need to know what gauge kanthal and type (A1, D?) (ribbon?), then what number metal mesh to be used with the silica (with the chosen kanthal), then the silica types to cover the mesh and also to be inside it. I definitely want to try both ways, so I'm now just looking for the right vendor, just trying to avoid an impulse buy before I actually know what could be best for me.
I would like to know what ribbon kanthal is and how it works differently then regular wire.
I was also wondering regarding the silica, That link showed how to make a wick with the 2mm silica on the inside of 1mm more width of mesh. I would think this would wick liquid better, but I'm not sure I'll be happy with it. Can you also use a certain silica to use on the outside of metal mesh? Like a covering for more ideal contact with the wire and wick. I suppose I could also use a SS braid for that as well.
I want to try both methods separately and together, but I don't know what to order exactly and from where, but I'll take a look right now.
PS:I tend to like a cooler vape, 0 harshness and a slight nicotine edge with amazing flavor.
Basically I need to know what gauge kanthal and type (A1, D?) (ribbon?), then what number metal mesh to be used with the silica (with the chosen kanthal), then the silica types to cover the mesh and also to be inside it. I definitely want to try both ways, so I'm now just looking for the right vendor, just trying to avoid an impulse buy before I actually know what could be best for me.
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Hey, no problem:
Kanthal:
http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/...x=0&submit.y=0
Mesh:
Stainless Steel Mesh
I used ROUND 28 ga. kanthal wire. Flat, or ribbon wire I have found to be a pain to deal with.
Well it's my understanding that it was first used as the hot wire in machines that were used to cut materials, like foam for packaging, but with the advent of e-cigs and rebuildable atomizers was found to be excellent for use in the coils because of the high temperatures it could take.
Well I've not been motivated to get that complicated with my own wick making, and I can't say if you will be happy with it, all I can say is give it a try if you like. I have found that my own 400 and 500 mesh wicks have no problems wicking at all, and even wick a little too well at times, so that I end up with juice up under the cap of my RBA. So unless your wick is drying out on you I don't see a problem that can be solved by using silica inside mesh, and I'm not sure silica is any better than mesh.
I used silica wicks in my Kanger Protank, and it does add a certain taste to the vape. I find that mesh wicks give a cleaner taste since I went to an RBA. I've not tried silica in it, and probably won't bother with it.
Gosh, I'm really not sure how one would even start to go about doing that. You really do want to experiment I see
One thing, do you have the means to check the ohms on your atomizer after you build the wick and coil on it? That's very important.
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Yes, I always check before I oxidize the kanthal. Yeah, I plan on doing what it shows in that link in second post here. I think I've got an order set up now, I just hope that the silica helps me. I think I'll use kidney puncher.com Heres an order I just put together, let me know if I'm getting ripped off before I place the order cause it added up quick:
"316" 500 Stainless steel mesh, 1 foot by 1 foot for $22 bucks
Kanthal A1 wire 32 gauge 6 feet for $3.90
EKOwool 4 feet of 2mm (measuring the inner side) hollow silica (for use to cover thin rolled metal mesh or SS braid) $7.90
EKOwool 4 feet of 1.5 mm threaded silica to use as an inner wick for the outside metal mesh (as desrcibed in the link) $9.90
I want to try this out, I'm sure it'll work better then what I've got, but maybe I should use a different vendor or something. I want to try and order everything I need from one vendor so I save on shipping. I'll be back online to read you! ha this is fun/exciting for me, but I don't want to end up dissapointed with a 60 dollar purchase. Thanks for your help man!!!! I really do appreciate it. Let me know what you think about the products I listed and if they would all work together well.
Also, I read someone boiled their metal mesh in soapy water or something to oxidize it, never done that, but I do know to only lightly oxidize the mesh with the torch.
So yeah, I don't really mind spending a bit more for the quality if need be, so if that means ordering from 3 different places to get the best I'm willing. I assume thats what I'm paying for from kidneypuncher.com, the quality, but I have no idea.
"316" 500 Stainless steel mesh, 1 foot by 1 foot for $22 bucks
Kanthal A1 wire 32 gauge 6 feet for $3.90
EKOwool 4 feet of 2mm (measuring the inner side) hollow silica (for use to cover thin rolled metal mesh or SS braid) $7.90
EKOwool 4 feet of 1.5 mm threaded silica to use as an inner wick for the outside metal mesh (as desrcibed in the link) $9.90
I want to try this out, I'm sure it'll work better then what I've got, but maybe I should use a different vendor or something. I want to try and order everything I need from one vendor so I save on shipping. I'll be back online to read you! ha this is fun/exciting for me, but I don't want to end up dissapointed with a 60 dollar purchase. Thanks for your help man!!!! I really do appreciate it. Let me know what you think about the products I listed and if they would all work together well.
Also, I read someone boiled their metal mesh in soapy water or something to oxidize it, never done that, but I do know to only lightly oxidize the mesh with the torch.
So yeah, I don't really mind spending a bit more for the quality if need be, so if that means ordering from 3 different places to get the best I'm willing. I assume thats what I'm paying for from kidneypuncher.com, the quality, but I have no idea.
Okay, what ohms did you intend to wind your coils for? 32 ga. kanthal is going to give you higher resistance than 28 ga. kanthal. If you are shooting for a 4/3 wrap 1 ohm or above you should be fine, otherwise you might want to order up some 28 ga. kanthal. I can't really advise you on the Ekowool, I've only used it in my Protank, which I've not touched since I got my RBA, though I did have to boil it for half an hour being that it had a rather hideous taste to it as it came to me.
You should be fine with that mesh, I've used 500 mesh to very good effect, and even ordered more of it from Mesh Wizard recently, despite having a goodly supply of 400 mesh. It should last you a good while, and provide the means for much experimenting.
Oh I don't think boiling it in soapy water is going to oxidize it at all, rather that was likely done to get machining oils and residues off of it, prior to oxidizing with a torch. I should say that I've had no issues with Kidneypuncher, and have ordered from them in the past.
I'm quite interested to hear how your experiments in wicking turn out for you, please do let me know
Well I hope that with the proper prep with the silica it'll taste pure without adding its own flavor. That's honestly all I'm looking for, the actual taste with as little variance of taste as possible. I might also get some 3mm silica to use all on its own, I'm guessing you can do that. Well the wick hole size is 3.4, so I bet I could just try using 2 pieces of the 1.5mm threaded together to try silica all on its own as well.
I actually think the wicking it part of the problem, could be my kanthal as well, but I get dryish hits sometimes, and flavor is nowhere near what I'm looking for using the mesh alone *most of the time*. Sometimes it does work well, but Imma go ahead and get some more stuff. Hell yeah man I'll let you know!
I actually think the wicking it part of the problem, could be my kanthal as well, but I get dryish hits sometimes, and flavor is nowhere near what I'm looking for using the mesh alone *most of the time*. Sometimes it does work well, but Imma go ahead and get some more stuff. Hell yeah man I'll let you know!
3 x Kanthal A-1 Wire
(Gauge: 32)
1 x Sheet of 316 500 Stainless Steel Mesh - 12" x 12' Square
2 x EKOWOOL Silica Wick
(Diameter in mm: 2 Hollow)
2 x EKOWOOL Silica Wick
(Diameter in mm: 1.5 Threaded)
1 x Wire Rope Wick 7x7 3/32 32mm 3 pack
Thats what I got coming to me. I really hope I got the right stuff.
I honestly think I won't get any answers on this, but I've read what people say how to build it and have some questions to perfect a method out.
K, so I'll be making a hybrid with the ekowool and metal mesh in 2 ways. First thing is to prep the silica and mesh. So I'll boil the silica for 15 mins in distilled water, done there. For the mesh, I wonder if adding a step of boiling in dish soapy water or something would be beneficial to remove the machine oils before lightly torching to oxidize (if at all). I've read that its unnecessary to oxidize at all with a torch because the wick hole is insulated. Don't know why that is, or what oxidizing even does. If I can completely rid the mesh of residue and oils to avoid using to torch I will, I figure whatever I can do to get ideal performance, but I don't know the correct method to do so.
Besides that, I've read about "annealing" the kanthal or something its called. Its using a bic on the kanthal so it has less "memory" once wrapped. I would assume that would make it more flexable for adjusting and such. So I'll do that as well.
Of course I would love a complete how to on making hybrid wicks with the products I've ordered, but I'll just have to see how to goes with what I know by the time the stuff comes. I feel fairly confident I'll be able to make it work good, I hope this ekowool lives up to the hype I've read.
to be honest, I have tons of questions, way too time consuming to actually type
(Gauge: 32)
1 x Sheet of 316 500 Stainless Steel Mesh - 12" x 12' Square
2 x EKOWOOL Silica Wick
(Diameter in mm: 2 Hollow)
2 x EKOWOOL Silica Wick
(Diameter in mm: 1.5 Threaded)
1 x Wire Rope Wick 7x7 3/32 32mm 3 pack
Thats what I got coming to me. I really hope I got the right stuff.
I honestly think I won't get any answers on this, but I've read what people say how to build it and have some questions to perfect a method out.
K, so I'll be making a hybrid with the ekowool and metal mesh in 2 ways. First thing is to prep the silica and mesh. So I'll boil the silica for 15 mins in distilled water, done there. For the mesh, I wonder if adding a step of boiling in dish soapy water or something would be beneficial to remove the machine oils before lightly torching to oxidize (if at all). I've read that its unnecessary to oxidize at all with a torch because the wick hole is insulated. Don't know why that is, or what oxidizing even does. If I can completely rid the mesh of residue and oils to avoid using to torch I will, I figure whatever I can do to get ideal performance, but I don't know the correct method to do so.
Besides that, I've read about "annealing" the kanthal or something its called. Its using a bic on the kanthal so it has less "memory" once wrapped. I would assume that would make it more flexable for adjusting and such. So I'll do that as well.
Of course I would love a complete how to on making hybrid wicks with the products I've ordered, but I'll just have to see how to goes with what I know by the time the stuff comes. I feel fairly confident I'll be able to make it work good, I hope this ekowool lives up to the hype I've read.
to be honest, I have tons of questions, way too time consuming to actually type
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I've heard that ceramic provides the best wicking material as far as not imparting any flavor or potential toxins . Can anyone corroborate and as well, let us know if it moves the liquid efficiently?
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Well just speaking as the only one responding to this thread I have to say that the territory you are venturing into is a place I've not gone. I'd like to say again that boiling your mesh in soapy water is not going to oxidize it. I've found that just using a torch to oxidize my mesh before rolling it into a wick does the job, and burns off any oils or residues there are.
in point of fact you do not have to oxidize the entire wick, this is vital only on that part upon which the coil loops come into contact with it, and most important is that your coil have uniform and even contact with the wick on a well oxidized portion of the wick so that it will not ground out on it or develop hot spots, which are cause by uneven contact with the wick, and insufficient oxidation of it. This is why some use the pulse method to oxidize the wick, though I would advise caution with this method as it can burn holes in your wick, which will give you a very harsh and unpleasant vape.
I'm happy to provide you with my experiences and whatever advice I can offer, but you are wanting to do things I've not done, and which I cannot speak to. You may come up with something really good that others can use and which becomes the subject of YouTube videos. I hope so. I wish I had more to share with you about this, but some time ago I arrived at the simple mesh wick and 28 ga. kanthal 4/3 wrap coil that continues to serve me very well, and I'm quite happy with.
So just charge in there, experiment, and play with it.
Well the consensus on ceramic seems to be that it snaps very easily with very little pressure, and can be quite frustrating to put a coil on. I think it might be best to use the Petar K method to put a coil on a ceramic wick, but that's just a guess, I've not gone there myself, though I did consider it.
I've also considered trying SS rope, but conversations with a very knowledgeable man I know dissuaded me from pursuing that course. he was not happy with his results.
I've taken to wrapping a piece of silica in some mesh and it helps the wicking a lot and doesn't add any flavor of its own. You just have to be sure not to wrap it too tight or you'll bottleneck it a bit. Similarly, don't wrap your wire too tight around the wick. I almost never have to do the "Genny tip" anymore to wet my wick.
Be aware that with Ekowool, the diameter is the inner measurements and it will be around 1mm thicker to the outside. In the RSST I would advise using 1mm silica if you're going to do a hybrid wick.
I have no experience with ribbon kanthal so I can't really comment there.
Also, part of your taste issue, other than wrapping the coil too tight, may be hot spots coming off the +/- leads. To fix that just kink the wire up against the coil. I'm not sure how this stops the hot spots, but it does. Hot spots are your flavor enemy #1 with RBA's.
I'm sure there's more to answer here, but it eludes me so just ask if you want something more specific and I'll do my best to answer. I am fairly new to RBA's myself so I'll try, but I can't guarentee I'll have all the answers.
Edit: Also for wicking, what is the pg/vg ratio of your juice? Generally speaking thicker juices do better with a lower count mesh. Say you use 50/50, a 400 mesh is probably good for that. If you go down to >50% vg, you may want a 325.
Be aware that with Ekowool, the diameter is the inner measurements and it will be around 1mm thicker to the outside. In the RSST I would advise using 1mm silica if you're going to do a hybrid wick.
I have no experience with ribbon kanthal so I can't really comment there.
Also, part of your taste issue, other than wrapping the coil too tight, may be hot spots coming off the +/- leads. To fix that just kink the wire up against the coil. I'm not sure how this stops the hot spots, but it does. Hot spots are your flavor enemy #1 with RBA's.
I'm sure there's more to answer here, but it eludes me so just ask if you want something more specific and I'll do my best to answer. I am fairly new to RBA's myself so I'll try, but I can't guarentee I'll have all the answers.
Edit: Also for wicking, what is the pg/vg ratio of your juice? Generally speaking thicker juices do better with a lower count mesh. Say you use 50/50, a 400 mesh is probably good for that. If you go down to >50% vg, you may want a 325.
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Well, Thanks guys for the replys, I really do appreciate them.
I still wonder if I could do something else before torching my brand new mesh. I want to get the right method to try on my first wick. I think that my Kanthal may make the ohms a bit higher, but I doubt it will decrease production much with an ideal voltage. lol, I can't wait to actually get this stuff in the mail its saying it'll come tomorrow so I'll get to give it all a shot. I'm going to see if I can dig anything up about how to properly make these 2 hybrid wicks I'm trying to make with whats coming. I kinda got a feeling its going to work great because of the positive reviews.
The juice I use is pretty thick. I have the thickest syringe my mom who is a nurse could get me and it sucks up the juice pretty damn slow, so I think this flavor I like a lot is heavier vg, so this 500 should be good.
As far as making a kink up against my coil, do you mean where you wrap it around the terminals? Like to wrap it all the way around until the end touches the coil where it goes to/from the wick? I could try that.
haha, at least I got two guys helping me, thats better then zero. Well I do have a video recorder on my phone, maybe I could upload a video to youtube if its an amazing success or something, I could detail the whole process that I figure out from researching what worked for other people. I would like to learn what exactly the science is behind what I'm doing with the materials and how that directly effects the performance and taste etc etc.
Well I'm off to research, wish me luck, lol.
I still wonder if I could do something else before torching my brand new mesh. I want to get the right method to try on my first wick. I think that my Kanthal may make the ohms a bit higher, but I doubt it will decrease production much with an ideal voltage. lol, I can't wait to actually get this stuff in the mail its saying it'll come tomorrow so I'll get to give it all a shot. I'm going to see if I can dig anything up about how to properly make these 2 hybrid wicks I'm trying to make with whats coming. I kinda got a feeling its going to work great because of the positive reviews.
The juice I use is pretty thick. I have the thickest syringe my mom who is a nurse could get me and it sucks up the juice pretty damn slow, so I think this flavor I like a lot is heavier vg, so this 500 should be good.
As far as making a kink up against my coil, do you mean where you wrap it around the terminals? Like to wrap it all the way around until the end touches the coil where it goes to/from the wick? I could try that.
haha, at least I got two guys helping me, thats better then zero. Well I do have a video recorder on my phone, maybe I could upload a video to youtube if its an amazing success or something, I could detail the whole process that I figure out from researching what worked for other people. I would like to learn what exactly the science is behind what I'm doing with the materials and how that directly effects the performance and taste etc etc.
Well I'm off to research, wish me luck, lol.
Just saw your post, with the kanthal you have ordered you will be getting a higher resistance when I've used the 32 ga I tend to be around 1.8 to 2.0 ohms. If you are using this on a regulated device that will be great. as far as hybrid wicks go I've only used cotton cored ss mesh I found that it wicked too well and now gone back to a hollow ss of 400 mesh in my rsst, wicking really well. I also currently have it wrapped in ribbon wire (0.6 x 0.1), I find that the vapor is cooler than then using 28 ga with the same resistance, 0.8 ohms. Hope this helps
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