Message to e-Liquid vendors: This is what we want from you!

[KuroCz]

Sorry not tryin to double post here,but I need a higher post count to get to the forum I need to... orz

BUT, to the point of the thread, I was shopping last night for a backup pv, and was about to place an order at a vendor's site. Then I saw inflated shipping costs. Closed the page, went to another vendor's site that had what I was looking for, same shipping method, for half the previous site's cost. I don't get suckered by the "get a second set free just pay additional shipping and handling" either, and I will never buy much less revist a vendor that tries to 'get that extra dollar' through overcharging for shipping.

The things I've seen so far that I really appreciate:
Good descriptions, good CS, fast turn around for hardware orders, and being able to buy without having to register. The first three I simply expect as doing good business. Not having to register I appreciate a lot since I don't get the feeling that someone's going to try and sell my email addy to get an extra buck, and that goes a long way in my book.

 

[blondiee]

My beef is with pictures. I would like to see a picture of what I'm buying not a picture of some kind of fruit, or a camel. I would like to know what kind of bottle, I'm gunna get. What the label looks like. I feel if time was spent in packaging, then time was spent in the product. If it looks professional, its just seems to me, more effort was put into the end product. I'm more likely to buy something, if I can actually see what I'm getting before hand.

 

[vsummer1]

My beef is with pictures. I would like to see a picture of what I'm buying not a picture of some kind of fruit, or a camel. I would like to know what kind of bottle, I'm gunna get. What the label looks like. I feel if time was spent in packaging, then time was spent in the product. If it looks professional, its just seems to me, more effort was put into the end product. I'm more likely to buy something, if I can actually see what I'm getting before hand.

I agree with this. I also like to see the color of the product. Some of the same flavors can be dark and black and some are lighter (and this was upon both arrival to me and after I steeped). I prefer the lighter, others may like the darker, and would like to know if that is what you are selling.

A vendor who puts their product in the dark glass would not be able to show the color if they were showing their bottle in each description of the product, but it would be nice to see the bottle somewhere. Maybe on the main page before you branch out to look at the individual product and then have a picture of the individual where you choose your PG/VG, nic etc.? Those stock pictures of a watermelon or a candy bowl don't do it for me.

 

[Bronze]

I agree with this. I also like to see the color of the product. Some of the same flavors can be dark and black and some are lighter (and this was upon both arrival to me and after I steeped). I prefer the lighter, others may like the darker, and would like to know if that is what you are selling.

A vendor who puts their product in the dark glass would not be able to show the color if they were showing their bottle in each description of the product, but it would be nice to see the bottle somewhere. Maybe on the main page before you branch out to look at the individual product and then have a picture of the individual where you choose your PG/VG, nic etc.? Those stock pictures of a watermelon or a candy bowl don't do it for me.

Some vendors choose a dark bottle because it helps protect the product inside from the light. Just like beer makers.

 

[Mr.Mann]

My beef is with pictures. I would like to see a picture of what I'm buying not a picture of some kind of fruit, or a camel. I would like to know what kind of bottle, I'm gunna get. What the label looks like. I feel if time was spent in packaging, then time was spent in the product. If it looks professional, its just seems to me, more effort was put into the end product. I'm more likely to buy something, if I can actually see what I'm getting before hand.

I agree with this. I also like to see the color of the product. Some of the same flavors can be dark and black and some are lighter (and this was upon both arrival to me and after I steeped). I prefer the lighter, others may like the darker, and would like to know if that is what you are selling.

A vendor who puts their product in the dark glass would not be able to show the color if they were showing their bottle in each description of the product, but it would be nice to see the bottle somewhere. Maybe on the main page before you branch out to look at the individual product and then have a picture of the individual where you choose your PG/VG, nic etc.? Those stock pictures of a watermelon or a candy bowl don't do it for me.

I totally understand and agree with what you all are suggesting (about pictures and such), but you have to remember, like the Pavlov's Dog experiment, vendor's goals in trying to entice a broad range of customers is deeply based on making those potential customers salivate -- juice color, pictures of juice in a bottle, and bare bone facts about ingredients are only going to go so far by itself. The average juice in a bottle accompanied by a description is not going to trigger much mouth watering effects in the average consumer. I don't think it should be either/or, but an and/also approach. The more info the better, but it should be done in such a way as to not overwhelm the customer who buys on a whim, and to not short change the more informed and discerning buyer. I like buying from vendors who manage to stimulate all aspects of my decision making process. Do I want to know objective points of interest about that which I buy? Yes. Do I want my buying experience to be visually stimulating and fun? Yes.

 

[Buggs5347]

Consistency in flavor from one PG/VG mix to the next. I have a sensitivity to PG so need to order VG liquids. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to purchase your whiz bang described flavor and taste.....NOTHING....or just a hint of something.

Okay, so great, some of you offer for me to purchase extra flavor shots, so after having experience with your no flavor shot added juice, I re-order it with an extra flavor shot - upon receipt and even steeping for up two 2 weeks, open the bottle and taste......NOTHING.... Really??????!!!! How many shots do I need to get it to have flavor? It should be automatic that all of your ratios should have the same predominance of flavor - so figure out how you need to adjust your mixes. Make sure your 0 nic all VG configuration is just as flavorful as your PG/VG ration mixes are. I understand throat hit is going to be different, you can, if you wish purchase additives to adjust throat hit, but most of us could not purchase that "special flavor" we bought from you to add as we like on our own. I could care less about throat hit, I want to taste the flavor I ordered. It just gripes me that you don't care enough to do that automatically. It tells me you have never really tested your own product in anything other than one PG/VG formulation and really could care less about other folks needs.

 

[vsummer1]

Buggs, sometimes the lighter flavors take even longer than 2 weeks... but to tell you the truth, I don't like the light fruits either for the same reason. I want FLAVOR. But that isn't the vendor's fault, because many people like the subtle fruits and don't mind waiting for them to come to fruition (pun intended).

 

[Mr.Mann]

Flavors are a tough one to debate due to the intrinsic nature of subjectivity. However, having the option to add flavor should do exactly what it says! I, also, have bought two bottles of the same liquid from a vendor with little to no discernible difference -- that was a huge let down.

One more variable to further complicate the equation is the vaper's set-up. Many times flavors will sing in one juice delivery device and another will cause the juice to remain silent.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Yet another variable to consider with flavor is the fact that some of us have done more damage to our sense of taste from smoking than others, and we are all at various stages of recovery. Vendors should most definitely offer an extra flavor option and deliver the goods!

 

[Buggs5347]

Buggs, sometimes the lighter flavors take even longer than 2 weeks... but to tell you the truth, I don't like the light fruits either for the same reason. I want FLAVOR. But that isn't the vendor's fault, because many people like the subtle fruits and don't mind waiting for them to come to fruition (pun intended).

Actually, I wasn't saying just fruit flavors. 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, it doesn't matter, I'm not getting the flavor that is supposed to be there. Fine, some people like their flavor weak, they have the option to reduce their flavor by adding a little more vg and or distilled water or alcohol to it - that's easy. I cannot add the flavor on my own.

You know, when I order a cola beverage or a cup of coffee at a restaurant, I expect there to be flavor in the glass/cup whether I order it with caffeine or without or whatever other configuration cola or coffee or any other beverage.

 

[Buggs5347]

You are correct, the flavor can be a little better or worse depending on which delivery system you are using. I'm allowing for that. VG users get shafted on flavor from most vendors, regardless.

 

[gthompson]

You are correct, the flavor can be a little better or worse depending on which delivery system you are using. I'm allowing for that. VG users get shafted on flavor from most vendors, regardless.

Depends on the vendor. Just to name a couple, HHV and AVE both have bold, full flavored 100% VG.

 

[Buggs5347]

Tastebuds can indeed sometimes be the issue. I'm not talking about that, though. I have tried the flavor in the PG/VG variety and the VG variety. I can taste it with the PG/VG variety, not the VG variety. Happen to not be able to continue use of the PG/VG variety because with continued use it will cause me a lot of pain.

 

[Buggs5347]

I'm soon going to find out. I was so happy to find out about them.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

To vendors: It has just come to my attention that diacetyl, an ingredient commonly used in e-liquids to provide a creamy texture, is dangerous when heated and inhaled. From the venerable information source, Wikipedia:


"The United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has suggested diacetyl, when used in artificial butter flavoring (as used in many consumer foods), may be hazardous when heated and inhaled over a long period.

Workers in several factories that manufacture artificial butter flavoring have been diagnosed with bronchiolitis obliterans, a rare and serious disease of the lungs. The cases found have been mainly in young, healthy, nonsmoking males. Lung transplantation is the only known cure for bronchiolitis obliterans.

While several authorities have called the disease "popcorn worker's lung", a more accurate term suggested by other doctors may be more appropriate, since the disease can occur in any industry working with diacetyl: diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans."


Please note if any of your liquids contain diacetyl, or better yet, find a safer alternative.

 

[EleanorR]

And not just diacetyl, but any/all of its related ketones!

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Thanks for clarifying, Eleanor. This is an important issue not just for individual people's health, but for the future of vaping. If people start getting sick, we can all look forward to finding new ways to get our nicotine.

 

[Bronze]

Thanks for clarifying, Eleanor. This is an important issue not just for individual people's health, but for the future of vaping. If people start getting sick, we can all look forward to finding new ways to get our nicotine.

Especially when we can derive much pleasure from vaping WITHOUT it. Vapers may have spent years and decades abusing their bodies, but a large appeal of vaping is that we eliminate the vast majority of those abuses. Simply trading problems is not appealing. I for one would like to know how we can determine if the smoke juice we are vaping (purchasing) has these ingredients in them. I'm sorry to say, I am ignorant in this concern (other than knowing it is bad).

 

[Racehorse]

And not just diacetyl, but any/all of its related ketones!

Eleanor, thanks for bringing this up here. the problem is that I see some of the most popular juice having buttery, creamy, and vanilla tones....and of course, that is the very first question that pops into my mind.

How do you know? I've found like 2% of vendors actually even address this issue. So I gotta write them, and when I do, sometimes they tell me they don't know.

Is someone keeping a list, like the list about juices that erode/crack polycarbonate?

Simply trading problems is not appealing.

Thank you so much for saying this. I agree that we have decided to turn the corner, and I dislike it when people say stuff like "you smoked for X-years and now you're suddenly worried about a chemical?" It think it is disingenous to say this.

VG users get shafted on flavor from most vendors, regardless.

Seems like fans of Boba's Bounty don't say this. Again, I"ll go back to my theory that if a juice is created in 100% VG, it works.

What some vendors do is just add extra flavoring if someone wants to order a juice that is listed as a pg/vg juice in 100% VG instead. It simply doesn't work.

One suggestion I have, even if you buy commerically made juice......spend some time in the DIYer's area here...... some of these folks are really talented, and could probably open up their own successful store if they wanted. I learned a lot reading there.

I can see where if you're at Starbucks, and you want your cafe americano stronger, then you ask for 2 shots of espresso instead of one....or less water.........but coffee is so entirely different than making an e-juice recipe, just as it would be entirely different in a baking or cooking recipe. The entire balance of the recipe has just been ruined, IMHO.

You take a company like Alien Visons who "specializes" in 100% VG.....and has one of the most successful juices out there.....and then wonder why they have PG Hype which is a 10/90 mix. Ask why a company who specializes in 100% VG makes Hype 10/90......there's a reason for that. I doubt very much that Ben would just add extra flavoring to it to send you Hype in 100VG........he knows better. That's why it's not offered that way.

I've talked to several of the "better" vendors who explained to me why some of their best sellers can't be ordered by me in 100% VG.....it's not because they are too lazy to mix it, or they don't do custom mixes. It's because they understand that adding more flavoring, or doubling it, is simply not the answer and they don't want to send it out to their customers....at least, not under the same juice name, because it ISN'T the same juice.

JMHO

 

[proudlion]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I would like to see a uniform and standard method of listing PG/VG concentrations. Some vendors state their liquids are 70/30 but which is it?

If it became an industry standard to ALWAYS have the first number referencing PG and the second number VG it would sure make it easier on us.

A further complication is that some vendors actually fail to maintain uniformity throughout their own sites ... sometimes showing first number PG and other times the second number is PG.

Thanks! Now I feel better ;-)